WW quiestion I have not seen yet

[Rmy]

Is there a point where Haste, Crit, Mastery are to high and Agility should be in all the red slots?

Im currently at 7557 Haste, 7735 Crit, and 7790 Mastery.

[Hinalover]

if you are talking about with the Rune, then none at this point. The stat distribution with the rune is something along the lines of 1 Agility, 0.511 Mastery, 0.51 Crit, 0.51 Haste. Meaning that stat distribution of Mastery, Crit, and Haste are a hairs' breath over the value of Agility (320 Crit is slightly better than 160 Agility). Hence the reason that the worst you will find is an Agi/secondary gem instead of a full Agi gem.

[Rmy]

Yes I have the Rune

[Laeryn]

PVE or PVP?

Now assuming hit / exp cap for both..

PVE:Haste soft cap > mastery > crit > agility

PVP:Crit > Agility > Haste=Mastery


Secondary stats are almost always better, especially with crit. You get higher crit with 160 crit than you would with 160 agility.. hope this helps..

Agi in red, crit in yellow.

[Hinalover]

PVE or PVP?

Now assuming hit / exp cap for both..

PVE:Haste soft cap > mastery > crit > agility

PVP:Crit > Agility > Haste=Mastery


Secondary stats are almost always better, especially with crit. You get higher crit with 160 crit than you would with 160 agility.. hope this helps..

Agi in red, crit in yellow.

...um I'm not sure if you read the main thread at all, but the PvE part is incorrect. First of all he said he has the Rune which I already explained. For non-Rune, then the gearing is Agi > haste to soft cap (whatever feels confortable) > Cit > haste. Even with the 4 set Mastery is about even with Crit. Without Crit is better. If you don't believe me, download SimulationCraft, Import your character with the different scaling in the option tab turned on.

This is a result recently for someone on this board that I did who had the 4 set but not the Rune at the time.

[Deleted]

You want more procs per minute, therefore you'll always want to have more Haste. With more procs happening, you'll want to spam your chi-generators in between the buff uptime and therefore the excessively high energy regen is direly needed. On tonight's raid I'll test 9147 9143 9143 , maybe I can give some feedback how often I get energy capped

[Deleted]

People need to read this thread properly / not give totally flawed advice. Ignore the guy above me for example. 9k haste rating is stupid. Rppm alone is not enough to make us want to stack haste beyond a level at which we are comfortable with our regen, which is usually in the 6.5k+ range based on your latency.

As has already been pointed out, with Rune secondary stats are king. As soon as you get rune secondaries start outweighing agi when it comes to geming. So to answer the op's question, no, there is no point, once you have rune, where agi will start beating secondaries. That's why it's such a mental trinket, it scales with gear to a ridiculous degree, since the more secondary stats we get the more powerful it becomes. We won't be replacing it in 5.4 if it stays the way it is now.

[Deleted]

People need to read this thread properly / not give totally flawed advice. Ignore the guy above me for example. 9k haste rating is stupid. Rppm alone is not enough to make us want to stack haste beyond a level at which we are comfortable with our regen, which is usually in the 6.5k+ range based on your latency.

As has already been pointed out, with Rune secondary stats are king. As soon as you get rune secondaries start outweighing agi when it comes to geming. So to answer the op's question, no, there is no point, once you have rune, where agi will start beating secondaries. That's why it's such a mental trinket, it scales with gear to a ridiculous degree, since the more secondary stats we get the more powerful it becomes. We won't be replacing it in 5.4 if it stays the way it is now.

I'm pretty sure 9k haste is still optimal (with rune). I don't currently have access to SimC, but I'd like to see if we ever get to a point where we no longer balance out our stats for rune and instead stop at a haste soft cap/start gemming Agi.

[Crevan]

I'm pretty sure 9k haste is still optimal (with rune). I don't currently have access to SimC, but I'd like to see if we ever get to a point where we no longer balance out our stats for rune and instead stop at a haste soft cap/start gemming Agi.

Might be worth checking if power strikes becomes an option again at that point. Last time I checked, it was less than 5k dps behind ascension at about 8.3k haste.

[Stormykitten]

I find a good rule of thumb is, if you never/rarely use energizing brew, you have too much haste (or else have higher latency/play nonoptimal) and should convert some into crit.

Unless of course rng gave you a RoOr.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure 9k haste is still optimal (with rune). I don't currently have access to SimC, but I'd like to see if we ever get to a point where we no longer balance out our stats for rune and instead stop at a haste soft cap/start gemming Agi.

Well obviously if you have 9k haste, 9k crit and 9001 mastery then yeah that's fnie. My point was that his assertion that, without rune, gearing for 9k haste rating before prioritising crit is a mad idea.

I simply cannot believe we will EVER go back to gemming agi instead of secondary stats with Rune. That's why the trinket is so powerful, it won't stop scaling, the damage buff will just keep getting higher and higher.

To be quite honest if things stay exactly as they are now we probably wouldn't replace Rune in the first tier of next expansion let alone 5.4.

It'll get nerfed though. Gonna make sure I have Renatakis + Bad Juju ready for when that happens

[Deleted]

Good thing you are not biased Cartho (insert random rant here). Naturally you always want to have mastery on top on your reforges or did you really missed that info that much? I just pointed out that stats like haste become better and better the more rating you have overall due to the mechanic of the trinket. There is no way you won't get energy capped at some point, but it is a really bad idea to stay on a 6,5k haste rating and only push mastery and crit (or agi).

[Deleted]

Good thing you are not biased Cartho (insert random rant here). Naturally you always want to have mastery on top on your reforges or did you really missed that info that much? I just pointed out that stats like haste become better and better the more rating you have overall due to the mechanic of the trinket. There is no way you won't get energy capped at some point, but it is a really bad idea to stay on a 6,5k haste rating and only push mastery and crit (or agi).

I run with 8.5k haste and barely feel like I energy cap outside of Hero/BL. I'm also using FoF and EB pretty much off CD. I doubt there is much difference above 9k haste.

[Deleted]

True, but there is so much movement in ToT that it might happen some times