Please Help our Rogue.

[Foresightqq]

Title says it all. Please fix our rogue. Logs are provided below. I know that a couple of the other players suck too. Your help will be greatly appreciated. Please advise.

www.worldoflogs.com/reports/96d966uodjrgn46k/

[Coldkil]

Well, looking at the logs i don't see many issues with him. Tbh i think it's a case of "actual enviroment counts more than Raidbots".

On Jin'rokh i see him doind a somewhat nice performance. Probably the other dps (mage and priest) are more skilled and/or more geared. Also CDs make a greater impact on short fights.

All other fights leave space for a lot of multidotting, a thing that your shadow priest seem to do consistently. Also the Forst mage is awesome for cleaving and padding meters. From what i can see you rogue is focusing on single target, hence the damage will be lower by default.

And as a side note, you have a monk and a paladin tank. Their damage is that OP that pure dps classes cannot compete with them (part of the reason vengeance will be nerfed to the ground in 5.4).

Your rogue doesn't exactly "suck". You have other classes which are better performing.

[Enhshamanlol]

Are you kidding me?. For a 512 item lvl, He's where he should be with his gear and he doesn't have four set. He's not playing bad at all. Well other than his rupture uptime. Everything looks normal to me for his gear.

[theherecy]

Are you kidding me?. For a 512 item lvl, He's where he should be with his gear and he doesn't have four set. He's not playing bad at all. Well other than his rupture uptime. Everything looks normal to me for his gear.

This. Not sure why you are so critical? He's not the best but certainly not "sucks".

But to "answer" you're question by looking at council. He could improve rupture massively, spreading on multiple bosses where possible 95%+ is ideal. He didn't get off a 3rd Shadowblades or a 4th vendetta, though admittedly there wasn't much time left on the clock so he may have chosen not to (thought this would have upped his dps for what little it meant). He's not using vanish as a dps cooldown, it's not big but its enough especially when paired with preparation and I would recommend using mutilate instead of ambush.

Also any prepot or potions (BIG dps increases)? Can't see them :S

[Foresightqq]

That is what I wanted to hear.. Thank you. I dont know rogues at all. Therefore, I need a response from the community. I know my mage .

[strugglebear]

His opener is pretty off as well. He doesn't seem to be using shadow focus so that means that he cant use vanish as a DPS cool down.

His opener ends up being 2xAmbush->Rupture->Vendetta/Shadow Blades->Mutilate->SND ->Mutilate ->Envenom...

What his opener should look like is Mutilate->Rupture->Mutilate(Dispatch if proc'd)->Slice and Dice->Vendetta/Shadow Blades->Mutilate->Envenom

What this means is that he is wasting effective CPs and starting into his rotation with his DPS cooldowns slower than normal, which is a noticeable mistake especially when you're counting on burst with an RPPM trinket(Bad Juju)/initial proc trinket(ShadoPan Assault). The rogue opener is huge in terms of setting the pace for your DPS for the rest of the fight - and although I'm looking mostly at Jin'rokh, where DPS can fluctuate hard depending on your kill speed and where your cool downs are used - without mention of puddle uptime, not using these at the correct time is obviously a hindrance on performance.

My glance at his Jin'rokh opener: http // goo gl/ cyzmL

The 4 piece set bonus is also pretty huge for an assassination rogue. Although, it also compounds the importance of a perfect opener. The cleaner the more powerful you set yourself up for the rest of the fight. He is also 'wasting' 2k or so hit rating, as heading for the white hit cap is a pretty minimal DPS gain, although I imagine this is mostly due to his gear options, but that is 2000 rating that could be better spent elsewhere.

It is also extremely important to note that your top 3 DPS have the Legendary Meta Gem socketed, while your rogue does not. This will account for at the very minimum a 10k differential between these players; when used effectively it can add up to a high end of 15k, possibly more - it is just that good. And DoT'ers will dominate the first few bosses of ToT, i.e., Horridon/Council. Rogues tend to pull their weight in the back half, i.e., Durumu/Iron Qon/Twin Consorts/Primordius all give rogues a chance to shine.

Anyways, my /quickadvice - hope its worth something - and I play on Arthas as well, feel free to send me a tell in-game.

[Madcaptn]

I'm not sure if he reforged/reglyphed/regemed after your raid but if he didn't then there's a few things wrong with this rogue & I'll list them.

He has Skinning as a profession, it's really bad for raiding, he should have something like Jewelcrafting or Engeneering instead.
He's missing an enchant on his cloak, tell him to put +crit on it.
He should have the legendary meta by now, any reason why he doesn't ?
His helm has a 320 haste gem instead of 80 agi/160 mastery.
The blue gem in his chest has PvP power instead of being 80 agi/160 hit.
He needs to reforge his the crit out of his boots & ring for haste (if he uses reforgelite, tell him to make sure to move Haste above crit but below Mastery when reforging).
He upgraded all the wrong pieces. He should've upgraded both of his trinkets & weapons but he upgraded other stuff like a ring, belt, etc.
He is extremely over hit cap.
In his lvl 15 glyph slot he should be using Shadow Focus instead of Subterfuge (he may have switched that for pvp though).
For his lvl 60 glyph I'd recommend Shadowstep instead of Burst of Speed, it'll get him to the boss quicker to start his burst at the start (again he could've switched to Burst of Speed for pvp after the raid though).
His glyphs are good for a 10man since he probably has to be the one putting the weakened armor on the boss.

Now all of this could be because like I said maybe he reforged/reglyphed/regemed after raid for pvp? it looks weird.

For Jin'rokh I think he didn't wait until he was in the 1st pool to pop all his cooldowns. He didn't repot during the fight. Not sure if he prepot either.
He didn't repot in any fights.

It's a 6/12 normal mode guild so maybe the guy just takes it easy. He could definitely do a million times better though.

[Kael]

While his DPS doesn't "suck," there are some things he could improve on, most notably:

-he's using Slice 'n' Dice multiple times per encounter; it should never drop to need to be refreshed (most notably on Horridon)
-his rupture times are low for every kind of fight - multi-rupturing aside, rupture uptime should be close to 95% on single target.
-he's using subterfuge to get more ambushes out. He should be specced for Shadow Focus instead; ambush is only "on par" with mutilate.
-his envenom uptime is low. Can't really check the root cause very easily, but likely it's from using CP to: refresh SnD, use crimson tempest (don't), use deadly throw (don't), and having low rupture uptime which will lead to lower total energy.

Also importantly, he's got a raid leader who says his DPS and the DPS of people he plays with, sucks, and that he needs fixing. Try treating your personnel with a little more respect =(.

Point him at a rogue guide (Coldkil's signature has one) and our master thread for advanced play "Assassination: the Nitty Gritty" when he's looking for more.

[Crookids]

Snippet

The opener should be Mute (from stealth) - SnD - Pop CDs - Mute - Rupture - Rotation.

Getting Vendetta on the first Rupture along with SnD up quickly will serve as a higher damaging opener.


To the OP. like most said, he seems to be doing what his gear allows. Rogues scale quite a bit, especially with set bonuses. Although, he could use defenses a bit more and Rupture up times are a bit low on some fights.

[Deleted]

Even if his opener isn't quite good, it doesn't change the final dps heavily, Rogues rely on the stuff, and if he only has 510 ILvL you can't ask him to pull out top dps. The legendary meta can be 5-8 % of my DPS, that's maybe why he is below you other raid members if they have it and he does not.

But the better thing to do is to ask him, you should be able to discuss with your raid members about their performances, it's like the most important thing in PvE if you want to progress(don't be a dick when you ask him though).

[Foresightqq]

Thanks for all the response. I agree. I do treat them with respect, but I want us to progress further. I expect all raiders to have common knowledge of their class and play them at respectable level. I just don't have the knowledge to teach a rouge and that is why I am here. So thanks again.

[Crookids]

Thanks for all the response. I agree. I do treat them with respect, but I want us to progress further. I expect all raiders to have common knowledge of their class and play them at respectable level. I just don't have the knowledge to teach a rouge and that is why I am here. So thanks again.

I'm not sure why you are still under the impressions HE needs to learn something. I think your best bet is to run the characters you think are performing sub par through a calculator like Mr Robot and see if they are pulling the numbers their gear says they should. Yes, most fights aren't so cut and dry like their sim'd numbers, but at least you can gauge if it is god awful. Also, making sure their optimization e is correct can have more of an impact on progression than you think.

Also, you made the right decision asking for help and I think a great place to continue the help is to learn yourself how to read logs and gauge your players. It is most definitely part of being a leader.

[Lunareste]

His Slice and Dice and Rupture uptime are low.

[Deleted]

His performance is serviceable but not as good as it should. Low dps on Maegra.

[Deleted]

Low dps on Maegera?
He's not padding metters like mage, spriest doing.
They are doing Green/Red i think, and mage and spriest have 2nd top dps on Blue...

[Foresightqq]

How is the mage padding meters? And no we are not doing just green/red. We mix blue in there too. Thanks.

[Snow Goose]

How is the mage padding meters? And no we are not doing just green/red. We mix blue in there too. Thanks.

In case people didn't make the connection - the OP is *the mage*.

OT: He may not be rank 1 but he really isn't doing badly and there are some good bits of advice in here that will help him push it up, though I would recommend you handle passing the advice to him a bit more tactfully than your original post. At least he is second lowest on damage taken and from the looks of the logs does a decent job at avoiding the fire.

[Bromosapien]

He seems to be a quite average player. From his single target logs (Jinrokh) he has okay uptime on his envenom (60%), assuming he doesn't have 2 piece yet. On Tortos though, his evenom uptime is atrocious at ~31%. It looks like he was busy trying to FoK bats, yet if he would FoK less and just do it with envenom up while staying on boss...his dps would be far more effective (if your strat even includes killing bats). His rupture uptimes need work though. He has ~79% on Jinrohk, where it should be around 95+% on this fight. Rupture is extremely important to keep up.

[Deleted]

For his gear he is doing fine, the people criticizing him are elitist scum bags

[theherecy]

He seems to be a quite average player. From his single target logs (Jinrokh) he has okay uptime on his envenom (60%), assuming he doesn't have 2 piece yet. On Tortos though, his evenom uptime is atrocious at ~31%. It looks like he was busy trying to FoK bats, yet if he would FoK less and just do it with envenom up while staying on boss...his dps would be far more effective (if your strat even includes killing bats). His rupture uptimes need work though. He has ~79% on Jinrohk, where it should be around 95+% on this fight. Rupture is extremely important to keep up.

I'm sorry but FOK the bats and sacrificing the envenom uptime is far more important than what you suggest.