Feral Damage Really That OP?

[Deleted]

The damage is high, but can be managed.

The real problems are:

1. Even when slowed they seem to run faster than me on my deathknight. It's basicly impossible to 'sit' on them.
2. Whenever they have a free GCD they can get out of roots and slows.
3. Feral charge + skullbash + sprint is too much mobility.

[Senathor]

The damage is high, but can be managed.

The real problems are:

1. Even when slowed they seem to run faster than me on my deathknight. It's basicly impossible to 'sit' on them.
2. Whenever they have a free GCD they can get out of roots and slows.
3. Feral charge + skullbash + sprint is too much mobility.

I feel your pain we DK's got such shit mobility. I miss baseline DA so much!

[Lulbalance]

there's a lot of mis-information in here..i played feral for a lot of last season - i think it's mostly an arena problem.

10% is just 10% yes - the problem is that every feral is stacking agility @ 100% out side of some socket bonuses..so that's 10% ALL the time multiplied by X which is the attack power elevation from stacking their primary. that's a lot.

i don't think they have the cc to carry a comp but when paired with things like enhance shammies or hunters; they're really nasty because it becomes unhealable dmg if you get caught in cc - and there's no game because they never need to swap they can just zerg something down with cd's popped through their defensives. the new thug cleaves.. that's why a lot of arena players hate ferals atm.

[Deleted]

The damage is high, but can be managed.

The real problems are:

1. Even when slowed they seem to run faster than me on my deathknight. It's basicly impossible to 'sit' on them.
2. Whenever they have a free GCD they can get out of roots and slows.
3. Feral charge + skullbash + sprint is too much mobility.

This. The mobility of feral is the only thing that makes feral great in arena and in duels ( also off heals are great ). If you mention any other reason for thier viablity go play minecraft.

[Bsod]

the damage is the on the same levels as others but you cant simply get a feral off your ass

[Neekodango]

There is absolutely no way to counter bleeds atm, only form of dots that cant be dispelled by normal means ( poisons by some, but only a few can play muti and multidot like champs).

[Coraulten]

There is absolutely no way to counter bleeds atm, only form of dots that cant be dispelled by normal means ( poisons by some, but only a few can play muti and multidot like champs).

Feral bleeds are not a problem, in fact a pvp buff is semi needed. To put it into perspective, deep wounds hits hard than Rip.

[Ziene]

I think a lot of people forget that after the 5.1 Hunter nerfs, and before the 5.2 Warrior nerfs - Kittycleave was arguably the best comp of that patch (5.1) - it was a counter comp to Shatterplay / Shatreeplay (which was the most popular gladiator+ comp of the patch). Kitty's have been great all season, but the reason their representation might have slipped under the radar is because they are only great in 2's and 3's - while Tree's are great in all brackets, and Boomkins are mandatory in 10's, 5's, and decent in 3's (they're upgraded to good now, btw).

With the 10% physical damage buff (via Savage Roar), and the honestly overpowered redesign of Force of Nature (they nerfed Shadowdance->Cloak and Dagger.... and then gave a stronger version to Ferals in the same patch) - Ferals are probably the strongest melee spec now, if not the strongest spec overall.

With the return of Warriors in 5.3 (and a bleed buff, no less), expect to see Kittycleave on the rise.
With the nerf to rogues in 5.3, expect to see Kitties replace Rogues in Thugcleave.
Possibly expect to see Feral/Shadow/Rsham as the new RPS replacement, or Feral/Affliction/Rsham as the new RLS.
Feral/Fmage/Disc could be a better version of RMP as well.

I might try to find a Feral to run Feral/Affliction/Rsham on my lock... now that I think about it - that sounds pretty awesome.

You could symbiosis Soul Swap - and then swap hyper-power Rip+Rake to a second target during all your Kitty cooldown, in addition to Affliction's already awesome pressure right now (Rejuvenation isn't a great trade to the lock, but could be worse). Or you could put it on the Shaman to get Feral Spirits, which would be pretty hilarious! The Shaman would get Prowl, which could be good for keeping them out of initial saps.

Yvaelle,

Do you feel that ferals spec'ing into (Force of Nature, (FoN), trees) feel way over powered? I have been using them in randoms just to see how it would "feel" when fighting. Coming from what I have see using them, it would seem using them (based on stacks of 3, with each one having 20 sec CD for a charge), utilizing them can be OP to have a bash (4 sec stun) on caster's or melee in general. I just wanted to know more on your thoughts (in general) on whether Blizz making this change would cause players to demand to have this nerfed .

[Snuggli]

Yvaelle,

Do you feel that ferals spec'ing into (Force of Nature, (FoN), trees) feel way over powered? I have been using them in randoms just to see how it would "feel" when fighting. Coming from what I have see using them, it would seem using them (based on stacks of 3, with each one having 20 sec CD for a charge), utilizing them can be OP to have a bash (4 sec stun) on caster's or melee in general. I just wanted to know more on your thoughts (in general) on whether Blizz making this change would cause players to demand to have this nerfed .

Honestly, unless you're playing with a class that is drastically lacking any stun, taking Force of Nature isn't worth it. It's on the same tier as Incarnation, which is Ferals biggest burst cooldown (when used with TF/berserk) and hurts Ferals a lot in Arena if they don't have it. The only reason I can see to drop Incarnation completely and take FoN is if you were playing with a Shadow Priest or Affli Lock and you basically fill the role of a Rogue - only with slightly less CC and burst and more sustained damage with bleeds.

Anyway, in my opinion, having to drop such a massive cooldown for Force of Nature (in a way) balances it. As soon as a Druid summons a treant you know instantly that he can't Incarnation, and that means his burst is effectively halved (The same goes for Boomkin and Resto) and if people learn to play around that, then it shouldn't be an issue.

In BGs, playing around with FoN won't harm much. It's a good filler to get some free hits in while you're bash is on cooldown, it will help you a lot if you're defending a base or running around trying to pick people off by yourself. In any team fights though, Incarnation would be far superior as stuns will definitely be on DR, and Incarnation offers amazing burst when used on a healer, especially if they aren't concentrating on what's happening to them.

Yvaelle may disagree with what I said though!

[Yvaelle]

Yvaelle,

Do you feel that ferals spec'ing into (Force of Nature, (FoN), trees) feel way over powered? I have been using them in randoms just to see how it would "feel" when fighting. Coming from what I have see using them, it would seem using them (based on stacks of 3, with each one having 20 sec CD for a charge), utilizing them can be OP to have a bash (4 sec stun) on caster's or melee in general. I just wanted to know more on your thoughts (in general) on whether Blizz making this change would cause players to demand to have this nerfed .

When they originally announced it we discussed it on the forums here and I told the ferals to not get too excited because I never expected to see it end up on Live, multiple off-GCD moves is highly problematic for any class. Try using it with a mouseover macro and something like BattlegroundTargets.

/cast [@mouseover, nodead] Force of Nature; Force of Nature

With practice in 3's you can stun the entire enemy team despite them being well positioned and spread out *during* your burst cycle. That during bit is the particularly problematic part - a frost mage can CC the entire enemy team simultaneously - but it does at least mean he isn't dealing damage while CC'ing - poly the healer, nova the rogue, deep freeze the lock (vs RLS) - a feral can IBerserk, be in the middle of bursting someone - and, while in the height of their burst - stun the entire enemy team simultaneously, without the aide of their teammates, without warning for the enemy team to react, without any cost at all to damage output (apart from not having Incarnation).

By contrast, Shadowdance->Cloak and Dagger allowed rogues to teleport around the room stunning each enemy, but at the cost of at least 4 GCDs, 120 energy, and their burst cooldown (Shadowdance): which meant they could do it at the same frequency as Ferals, but doing so cost them quite significantly.

So long as the Ferals teammate can put out high burst, it should end up giving Feral teams some of the best possible burst windows.

[serenka]

dunno about OP, but on my boomkin i always feel a bit shit compared to a feral, i just can't find a way to beat a feral as a moonkin.

[Dabrix32]

I dont even see hardly any fearls so they cant be that OP. Druids are all laser chickens or trees it seems.

[Verain]

a feral can IBerserk, be in the middle of bursting someone - and, while in the height of their burst - stun the entire enemy team simultaneously, without the aide of their teammates, without warning for the enemy team to react, without any cost at all to damage output (apart from not having Incarnation).

Well, he can't IBerserk (as you point out), but he can still berserk.

I'm pretty sure we can write a macro that will simul-treant arena 1, 2, and 3, and not even require the mouseover drama.

So long as the Ferals teammate can put out high burst, it should end up giving Feral teams some of the best possible burst windows.

It'd be easier for Vitis to put on sneakypants than Violet to grind 3 levels and buy dresses. Your call.

[Yvaelle]

Well, he can't IBerserk (as you point out), but he can still berserk.

I'm pretty sure we can write a macro that will simul-treant arena 1, 2, and 3, and not even require the mouseover drama.



It'd be easier for Vitis to put on sneakypants than Violet to grind 3 levels and buy dresses. Your call.

Well, the mouseover macro was for RBGs.

Ya for arenas you could just use

/cast [target=Arena1] Force of Nature
/cast [target=Arena2] Force of Nature
/cast [target=Arena3] Force of Nature

And press that mid-burst cycle to make the enemy team cry.

@Verain
Do you mean you want to run Unholy DK / Feral / Resto Shaman with Luna? Feels like too much melee, but I suppose if we were going to play a double melee comp that's about the best pairing we could get actually. Alternately we could play Feral / Affliction / Rsham - ohhh - instead of MLS you mean with Violet.... ya that could work. It depends what you prefer though, MLS or Feral/Affliction/Rsham would both be a lot of fun - and we have the toons for either.


Speaking of which, forumers - we need a name for Feral/Affliction/Rsham. Feral/Unholy/Rsham is Ebola-cleave, and I like that name a lot - since it's all about diseases that make you bleed to death. What is an affliction that makes you bleed to death? Exsanguination-cleave doesn't have the right ring to it.

I think Unholy DK / Feral / Disc is probably going to be better than with an Rsham, anyone have experience with that variant? It has Fears and Mind Controls (which don't share DR with Druids and DKs) - so the disc should be able to supply more offensive CC than an Rshaman - while the DK doesn't really need the Rshamans help breaking fears anyways. Then again.... Disc priests are kind of needy, and Rshamans are just so strong right now.

[Ziene]

I think Unholy DK / Feral / Disc is probably going to be better than with an Rsham, anyone have experience with that variant? It has Fears and Mind Controls (which don't share DR with Druids and DKs) - so the disc should be able to supply more offensive CC than an Rshaman - while the DK doesn't really need the Rshamans help breaking fears anyways. Then again.... Disc priests are kind of needy, and Rshamans are just so strong right now.

Like this idea, Symbio the Disc for Cyclone, Unholy for burst, and peel... good combination

[Yvaelle]

Like this idea, Symbio the Disc for Cyclone, Unholy for burst, and peel... good combination

Oh wow ya I had forgotten about the awesome Disc<->Feral Symbiosis they would get as well - that turns the Disc into a crazy CC bot with 3 seperate DRs to play with (Fear, Mind Control, and Cyclone). Then the Feral would have Dispersion - which is pretty amazing given the Feral is probably the kill target for most enemy teams when the alternate choices are Unholy DK or Disc Priest.

[Smotherload]

I dunno, i have nothing against ferals atm..

I hate ferals on my mage tho..

Haha seems that you have problems sticking to your opinions

[Lulbalance]

Oh wow ya I had forgotten about the awesome Disc<->Feral Symbiosis they would get as well - that turns the Disc into a crazy CC bot with 3 seperate DRs to play with (Fear, Mind Control, and Cyclone). Then the Feral would have Dispersion - which is pretty amazing given the Feral is probably the kill target for most enemy teams when the alternate choices are Unholy DK or Disc Priest.

not sure what you guys think that would be good against :s. they both do dmg.. but that wont matter much after a point. both these classes take a boatload of dmg the priest isnt going to have time to be offensive with the DK ramp up. it's not like RMP.. you would be behind fast and with 1 6sec peel every 20s and one 5sec stun on 40s..dead because priest won't catch up.. also.. no offensive dispels outside of MD... and no mutually beneficial offensive buffs.

i would laugh if i saw UHDK / feral / priest q'n into us. >< ..and be furious if we lost to it.

i understand the theory... but i dont think this would be amazing at all. feral / enh / priest is a 100 times stronger.

[discoepfeand]

Am I correct in assuming that Ferals get more powerful in general as wizards get weaker?

When you have more rogues to Faerie Fire, melee to out-run, and people who can't (outside pallies) clear bleeds, it would seem you're in a pretty good spot.

But I'm a pretty crap player, so maybe that's wrong.

[Yvaelle]

It's always been called FLS.

It's just called FLS because it is an FPS variant, but that's not really a good name - it deserves something original