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  1. #1

    Leveling as prot - Squishy ?

    Good morning,

    I recently changed server since the one I was on is completely dead, our "gang" decided to roll Horde (I've been Ally since release so it's a bit weird). Anyhow, I'm now level 45 and I feel squishy, VERY squishy, my health is a crazy rollercoaster so I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong.

    I just got Sacred Shield at the end of the last dungeon I was running and it doesn't seem to help much. I pop glyphed DP, try to use SotR as often as possible while fighting big packs of trash and while I don't die I see my HP go down like crazy, even on boss fights, one hit and I lose 1/4 of my HP. At lvl 45 it's a bit weird, isn't it?

    Oh and I'm in heirlooms to boot not quest greens... Is it "normal" while leveling? Am I gonna get some more talents/spells along the way that make the whole thing easier? My "main" on ally side is a blood DK and even before I got gear I was never that squishy so I'm confused and a bit worried for the future...

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    It's been a while since I leveled a paladin, but having leveled other tanks more recently, no that does not sound right at all. In 5 mans, in heirlooms, your health should not be an issue until Cataclysm dungeons. Before BC, you should scarcely need a healer.

    Are you running seal of insight? That's a significant source of healing and is our default tanking seal. (It's also great for soloing as ret.)

    Sacred shield will end up being a massive benefit - I've no idea how it scales at low levels. (The brewmaster's absorb shield, guard, is insanely OP while leveling.) You could try using some addons to track it. I found shieldabsorbbar rather good for telling me if I was protected. And I also use weakauras, using Theck's strings to see if refreshing would increase the size of the shield.

    SotR is our go to ability for using holy power but word of glory can be useful healing - especially if you can bank up 5 bastions of glory.

    The other half of the equation is your healer. Set your focus on your healer and keep an eye on them. In leveling dungeons, they might slack or focus on dps.

    Finally, be aware of the content you are running. Random dungeon finder can put you in dungeons in a very wide range of difficulty (about 10 levels iirc). When I was not very confident tanking, I would rather pick dungeons where I was at the higher end of the level range. With heirlooms, the rewards from random LFD are not that great and I would rather pick particular dungeons so I had a variety of experience (and could do the very lucrative quests) rather than be forced to grind the same dungeon again and again.

    I don't know how it is now, but Scarlet Monastery, for example, could be brutal with the trash in the monastery if you pull too much. Lots of casters, I think some flamestrike type things, and stuns. Back in the day, it used to be an art to pulling one pack at time with line of sight tricks (avoiding patrols, runners or whatever). It should not be required but could help a lot. Don't forget your interrupt and your stun - they are great ways of reducing the damage from trash, especially when used on casters and healers.
    Last edited by econ21; 2013-05-30 at 01:15 PM.

  3. #3
    I can't really talk about the lvl-up of paladins now, but all other tanks have been a complete faceroll through the instances, with pulling from boss to boss or close to that, if there wasn't too many casters.
    I found paladins to be a bit weak with bad gear, but it gets very quickly better when you get more haste/mastery(this is only from a MoP point of view).
    Specially in the initial pull
    You already got DP glyph, but pop it on pull if you don't
    Also use hammer of the righteous for the 10% damage-debuff on everything, every 30 second.
    Use Shield of the righteous when you think there will be a high damage-income from bosses, or if you're capped on holy power.

    Sacred shield is very strong(and i think you have that from 45), so use that.
    You might just have had a bad streak of healers. I've been able to run pretty fast through most instances without a healer during lvlup, with random people and afk-healers.
    The second i had a horrible healer(and they really do exist in large numbers), it felt worse than not having a healer at all, because you push past the limit of what you can save alone, since you think you have a backup from the healer.
    Everyone has so much to say
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  4. #4
    > be low lvl dk
    > try using blood boil
    > blood boil make about 90-95% of your dps, up to 80 % to single target
    Ignore other classes, aquire dk and procceed with blood boiling

  5. #5
    I try to use as much as my toolset as possible (holy wrath in Strat to stun the undead for example). I mean it's not my first tank, I leveled a monk and DK this Xpack and it was butter smooth so I'm confused why I have this feeling on my Pally. Also, it's not a healer problem as I don't die it's my health that fluctuates a lot and it scares me a bit BUT it might just be this level range that's a bit harder on Pally and in 2-3 level it'll get better, I might be making a big deal out of nothing.

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    All tanks are pretty faceroll and do not require much healing at low levels, specifically if you have heirlooms which I know you don't. Are you using the correct seal? Other than that is probably just a gear issue or pulling more than you can handle(though everyone expects you to).

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorret View Post
    I try to use as much as my toolset as possible (holy wrath in Strat to stun the undead for example). ...it might just be this level range that's a bit harder on Pally and in 2-3 level it'll get better, I might be making a big deal out of nothing.
    Yeah, may just be a transitory thing. Your level relative to the mobs means a lot - at one level, an elite can own you, a few levels higher, it's nothing. Stratholme is level 48-51 on wowhead; at level 45 you may be a little low for it. It's like Scarlet Monastery - one I remember being quite challenging back in the day on level (heirlooms and nerfs have changed that but still, it's a LOT of trash and you can get overwhelmed).

    I mean it's not my first tank, I leveled a monk and DK this Xpack and it was butter smooth so I'm confused why I have this feeling on my Pally.
    Monks and blood DKs are beasts for leveling (the scaling on the monk's guard is insane - at low levels, it makes you practically invulnerable); don't worry, the tables will be turned at 90, when their health starts to yo-yo and yours becomes rock solid.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    All tanks are pretty faceroll and do not require much healing at low levels, specifically if you have heirlooms which I know you don't. Are you using the correct seal? Other than that is probably just a gear issue or pulling more than you can handle(though everyone expects you to).
    I have heirlooms, head/back/legs/chest/shoulders/shield/weapon and both trinkets with +haste and 2% heal after a kill.
    Oh and I didn't answer but I am using seal of insight that heal is seriously awesome.

    I'm a bit curious here though and I don't know if it's been tested before but is there a reason why nobody is using Eternal Flame? That HOT could be interesting with some vengeance combined with the burst healing you get from the initial cast...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorret View Post
    I'm a bit curious here though and I don't know if it's been tested before but is there a reason why nobody is using Eternal Flame? That HOT could be interesting with some vengeance combined with the burst healing you get from the initial cast...
    Check out the Glyph and Talent guide that Theck wrote over on maintankadin.com; he runs the numbers.

    http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...hp?f=1&t=32979

    The sacred shield tick is twice as big as the EF hot, and absorbs are better than heals. It's the only no-brainer talent in our tree.

  10. #10
    Thanks!
    10char

  11. #11
    If you feel squishy, you are doing something wrong. Personally I chose Eternal Flame instead of Sacred Shield (can be boosted by SotR by up to 50%), which allowed me to solo all instances up to level 79. After that I didn't bother any more though so possibly even further. I usually didn't use Seal of Insight because the damage from Righteous was just too big to miss out on (and I really didn't take much damage to begin with).

    Just like you, I rerolled on a different server and had no problem staying alive without heirlooms. However, I did start playing the AH a bit and purchased legs, head and cloak when I could.

    So no, you shouldn't feel squishy. Being able to solo everything (including dungeons and ring of blood questlines) without any trouble is just OP.

  12. #12
    i lvled prot pally not that long ago and could pull like 3 groups at a time no problem :P

  13. #13
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    hi

    Im levelin a Blood Elf Pally, right now im 58 and use eternal flame talent, just can make a same level instance almost alone....

    Heals are insane, and the HOT is really strong...

    As a healer let me make some dps, just put's on tank with 3 hp and make some dps...

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Whatever some wannabe hardcore can say protpaladin at low level (at least before 45 talents) are squishy. I have rerolle to the other faction too a few months ago, and since last week rerolling a protpaladin too. In full heirloom I randomly take some serious hit. And it has nothing to do with gameplay (at this level you nearly have no button, and haste don't impact you CD and GCD. I also played protection paladin horde side @90 before switching server, I know how to play it).

    For my MoP low level experience protection paladin are one of the worst tank (before 45 at least, my paladin currently being 42) with monk (don't remember exactly when you have guard, but before guard and purifying brew you sometime take huge damage too). One the other hand my currently 53 bear take really no damage.
    Warrior will be the next I tried in ~one month (always had every tank @max level on the server I play).

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Whatever some wannabe hardcore can say protpaladin at low level (at least before 45 talents) are squishy. I have rerolle to the other faction too a few months ago, and since last week rerolling a protpaladin too. In full heirloom I randomly take some serious hit. And it has nothing to do with gameplay (at this level you nearly have no button, and haste don't impact you CD and GCD. I also played protection paladin horde side @90 before switching server, I know how to play it).

    For my MoP low level experience protection paladin are one of the worst tank (before 45 at least, my paladin currently being 42) with monk (don't remember exactly when you have guard, but before guard and purifying brew you sometime take huge damage too). One the other hand my currently 53 bear take really no damage.
    Warrior will be the next I tried in ~one month (always had every tank @max level on the server I play).
    Kinda mirrors what I'm experiencing, glad to see I'm not alone! I kinda figured it would get better but it's still a bit concerning. I'm going to play more tonight with Sacred Shield, once I get the hang of including it in my rotation every 30 seconds it should help a lot surviving.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Whatever some wannabe hardcore can say protpaladin at low level (at least before 45 talents) are squishy. I have rerolle to the other faction too a few months ago, and since last week rerolling a protpaladin too. In full heirloom I randomly take some serious hit. And it has nothing to do with gameplay (at this level you nearly have no button, and haste don't impact you CD and GCD. I also played protection paladin horde side @90 before switching server, I know how to play it).

    For my MoP low level experience protection paladin are one of the worst tank (before 45 at least, my paladin currently being 42) with monk (don't remember exactly when you have guard, but before guard and purifying brew you sometime take huge damage too). One the other hand my currently 53 bear take really no damage.
    Warrior will be the next I tried in ~one month (always had every tank @max level on the server I play).
    Honestly I don't get how you can say that. I leveled from scratch in 5.2 (dwarf paladin) and tanking was a breeze without any kind of gear (No heirlooms, just white/grey and two/three greens). I'm really confused how people can have trouble these days with tanking.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuji V2 View Post
    If you feel squishy, you are doing something wrong. Personally I chose Eternal Flame instead of Sacred Shield (can be boosted by SotR by up to 50%), which allowed me to solo all instances up to level 79. After that I didn't bother any more though so possibly even further. I usually didn't use Seal of Insight because the damage from Righteous was just too big to miss out on (and I really didn't take much damage to begin with).
    I'm surprised no one has challenged you on this.

  18. #18
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuji V2 View Post
    Honestly I don't get how you can say that. I leveled from scratch in 5.2 (dwarf paladin) and tanking was a breeze without any kind of gear (No heirlooms, just white/grey and two/three greens). I'm really confused how people can have trouble these days with tanking.
    it's because tanking used to be about being a meat shield for your group relying on the odd dodge/parry and block, now you're in charge of your survival, shield of the righteouss and sacred shield should be most of your mitigation, the rest comes from seal of insight healing and not pulling 40 mobs at once (even though it's fun)
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  19. #19
    Banned rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cows For Life View Post
    I'm surprised no one has challenged you on this.

    I dont think it really matters what you do when leveling. Anything outside the current lvl raid environment means taking whatever talents you want, or using whatever spells you like has no real impact on the sucess of the group.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    I dont think it really matters what you do when leveling. Anything outside the current lvl raid environment means taking whatever talents you want, or using whatever spells you like has no real impact on the sucess of the group.
    That doesn't change the fact that what the poster said isn't really even valid. I'm messing around with the spell on wowhead and it heals for so little it should have very little impact on survivability, if it's noticeable at all. Choosing the spell that uses resources for a negligible effect versus a free spell that allows you to save resources for big damage reduction or big attack is almost never smart.

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