Last edited by cFortyfive; 2013-05-30 at 04:46 PM.
I agree with you that LFR is also a huge drain on the normal raiding community
no.....nerfs have been in place in icc...you could turn them off if you wanted but there were nerfs in place all the way through that content. sorry if i won't look at numbers that contain nerfs as it null and voids this whole discussion. sorry if that bursts your ToT is too extreme bubble but its fact. go back and get numbers pre-nerf and you will have a case. but numbers that contain nerf kills are not. Also timeframe...it would have to be the first 2 months of the content as well, not 4 months or 5 months or 6 months. as obviously guilds will kill stuff more the longer its out. these are VERY IMPORTANT NEEDED things to even make this valid imo. otherwise its all trash statistics.....
correct me if im wrong but didnt lich king heroic get killed AFTER the 5% nerf? if that is the case as I think it is...that would mean since H Lei Shen has been killed pre-nerf that ToT would be easier?
Paragon was the first guild in the world to defeat the Lich King in 25-Heroic mode! The 5% buff was used and it definitely confirms that guilds do not need the 10% version to kill him.
also the 10 man heroic was killed the week prior to paragons 25 man
Last edited by pallyopness; 2013-05-30 at 04:54 PM.
yes, lets look at the final bosses on heroic to decide about general normal mode difficulty and it's effect on raider attrition.correct me if im wrong but didnt lich king heroic get killed AFTER the 5% nerf? if that is the case as I think it is...that would mean since H Lei Shen has been killed pre-nerf that ToT would be easier?
--- To the OP - sterling work, sir. I salute ye.
In fact it has not. Naxx, Ulduar and ToC were left alone, without a stacking increase (though there were, of course, hotfixes) during their tier. T11 was left alone until after Firelands was out.
For the last 2 expansions the only raids to be nerfed by a significant amount during their lifecycle were the final tiers. Why? so people can finish the story. You can't go back and complete ICC with the next tier's gear in the same way you could go back and complete Ulduar with ICC gear. By the next tier you're in a different expansion and it's not the same.
The question is whether or not this is a GOOD thing. I think it is a good thing to have harder normal and heroic modes and an easy LFR. I get the content I want, they get the content they want.
People join guilds to hang out, as a result, instead of solely a way to raid. I think that's a good thing too. I'm in a guild of people I like, and we like to raid. If you don't want to find a new guild to raid, but still want to see the content, well there's LFR, and it's much easier to get into than pugs were in the past.
no injin....i think ToT should not be nerfed until new tiers are out if they really NEED to....leave it alone in progression id say...its not too hard and any easier would be plain boring
Its not a matter of "raiding is too hard now". Its a number of factors. And former raiders will have different views as to why its going down hill.
Personally it has nothing to do with how "hard it is". The fights aren't hard, they are tedious. 10 fucking minute fights? They supplemented time for mechanics. Just make the fight take longer, that is hard right? Well sort of, its harder because wiping 8 minutes in for the 5th time makes me not want to do this any more. Wiping 2-3 minutes in 30 times wasn't that bad. Yea, you got sick of watching the same player screw up the same mechanic the same way every time. But it was a quicker reset and go.
There are other reasons I quit raiding outside of my weekly run throughs of LFR but the point is there are a bunch of reasons why raiding has dropped off. Its not simply less people have killed x bosses so its obviously harder. Thats not the case or at least thats not a complete answer.
T8 was actually fairly hard. For some reason -- perhaps because people were brickwalling on it -- Blizzard rushed out patch 3.2 less than four months after 3.1.
T12 was nerfed 20% before it ended.For the last 2 expansions the only raids to be nerfed by a significant amount during their lifecycle were the final tiers. Why?
I think the experience shows that when raids are hard, fewer people do them. MoP normal mode raids are rather hard, so the normal mode raiding population has crashed. People don't like frustration and failure. This does not require a PhD in game psychology to understand.
I don't think it's a good thing for the game overall, or for the performance of the game as an entertainment product. In fact, I consider the design philosopy leading to harder raids to be obsolete. The great majority of players recognize it and won't play along. I believe the inclusion of difficult raids damages the level of attachment non-hardcore players have to the game, even if they never attempt those raids themselves.The question is whether or not this is a GOOD thing. I think it is a good thing to have harder normal and heroic modes and an easy LFR. I get the content I want, they get the content they want.
Last edited by Osmeric; 2013-05-30 at 05:06 PM.
With LFR: "Holy hell these normal modes are freaking retarded...eff this, I'll just do LFR"
Without LFR: "Holy hell these normal modes are freaking retarded...think I'll go pvp, or do pet battles...meh eff that I'll just quit"
Such thought process does not apply to everyone, obviously.
My guild basically called it quits over T14 due to lack of motivated players to continue progression. The game is bleeding ATM.