View Poll Results: Do you enjoy the L90 talents?

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  • Yes, and I love more than one!

    43 7.14%
  • Yes, but only Invocation.

    38 6.31%
  • Yes, but only Rune of Power.

    16 2.66%
  • Yes, but only Incanter's Ward.

    32 5.32%
  • No, I loathe all three!

    415 68.94%
  • I'm actually neutral on the talents, so I can't say one way or another.

    58 9.63%
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  1. #1
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    [Mage] Do you enjoy the L90 talents?

    I know forum posters (even moreso MMO Champ forum posters) are the 'minority', but I'd like to get a small sample because I constantly see people complaining about them (myself included) and have seen one or two people (besides Lhivera) who actually likes the talents.

    So I'm asking you guys, do you LIKE the L90 talents, and if so, which ones?

    I'll start: Like the idea they had going, but they were horribly executed, so I hate them, especially in an expansion where movement is a huge thing. I am a low-tier Heroic raider who always fully clears Normal raids when they are relevant.


    Edit: Sorry for all these poll threads I keep making. Dunno if anyone else gets a kick out of them, but I like seeing in neat little bars what everyone (on the forums) likes/dislikes. The L30 and L60 polls for example surprised me quite a bit.

    Edit: I forgot to mention something else. If you DO like any of the talents, what do you use them for? Are you a raider (of what level)? Do you just do dailies/dungeons or even just for farming mobs?

    Update: Interesting findings. Just from the MMO-Forums alone (assuming all votes are not troll/duplicates), here's a bit of data (despite the low sample size):

    - A larger portion of players than expected do enjoy the L90 talents
    - Only those who like at least 2 or all 3, besides a small few, like Rune of Power, specifically. Most Mages seem to enjoy Invocation or Incanter's Ward, if they enjoy the talents at all. (and I don't blame them)
    - As expected, the majority (of the small sample size, mind you) was in favor of getting rid of them
    - Also as expected, a fair percent were neutral towards them

    Of course, for this data to be a bit more conclusive, or even factual, we need a larger sample size.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-07-14 at 10:15 AM.

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  2. #2
    I think nearly everyone, MMOC posters or not, has the same opinion on the L90 talents as you. They look alright on paper, but in practice, they're just a complete nuisance to deal with. That being said, I'm not sure if the poly tier that was originally set would be much better, as it's a whole other tier that is completely useless for PvE. They just need to start from scratch with that tier and find something, anything, that will be an interesting addition for raiding. Possibly some kind of utility, though that'd seem a little weird for a talent choice so I'm not sure lol.

  3. #3
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Unanimous so far.

    Let's get about 50,000 votes on this then we can escalate it.

  4. #4
    If I had to pick one, Incanter's ward is about the only one I like. But honestly all three are annoying.

  5. #5
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    I actually can't decide so I'll think about it some other time.

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    Good question.
    I will be clear and short : not fun to play. They aren't dynamic at all and still feel punishing more than rewarding.
    The problem is the near 100% uptime. It's ok for debuff but feel punishing for this type of buff.


    In detail : It's good idea in theory but they do too much. And the huge uptime began by feeling punishing to being now completely boring.
    At start they were designed for giving gameplay's choice with an huge up-time buff.
    But mana management was also include in it because of Arcane design. Then Self-healing began to be problematic, in rBG, because of the glyph of Evocation.
    End finally, they are now 3 version of the same 15% buff because of another burst scaling issue in pvp.

    By talent:
    Invocation -- restrict too much the movement to offer a viable option in a majority of situation.Channelling a spell every minute isn't really fun. In cata as Arcane, it feel good because the burst just before was just enormous.
    Rune of Power -- too little, so much restrictive in movement and offer anything compared to evocation.
    Incanter's ward -- was really good in both PvE and PvP. No movement restriction, utility, more bursty, less "always up". A longer down time would have been better.
    The answers is 42
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  7. #7
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythic1 View Post
    If I had to pick one, Incanter's ward is about the only one I like. But honestly all three are annoying.
    Thinking about it, if I could edit the poll, I would to say "all three are annoying, but one of them I can tolerate". I'm in the same boat as you. I like IW, but it's annoying because it's just a DPS loss to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    I actually can't decide so I'll think about it some other time.
    I left the poll open forever so no rush.

    Well, kinda a rush. Once beta for the fifth expansion is out, these talents are gone

    (Could you imagine the Mage representation if they actually kept them? Unthinkably low numbers, that's what, lol)

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Thinking about it, if I could edit the poll, I would to say "all three are annoying, but one of them I can tolerate". I'm in the same boat as you. I like IW, but it's annoying because it's just a DPS loss to use it.



    I left the poll open forever so no rush.

    Well, kinda a rush. Once beta for the fifth expansion is out, these talents are gone

    (Could you imagine the Mage representation if they actually kept them? Unthinkably low numbers, that's what, lol)
    I would jump ship in a heartbeat if they kept the level 90 talents. I highly doubt that will happen however.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    I would jump ship in a heartbeat if they kept the level 90 talents. I highly doubt that will happen however.
    In that case, I will theoricrafting somewhere else. (maybe IRL)
    The answers is 42
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  10. #10
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    I would jump ship in a heartbeat if they kept the level 90 talents. I highly doubt that will happen however.
    I'd either quit or go Warlock if I REALLY could see myself playing more w/o Mage. Mages have enough issues that they probably aren't resolving (Fire for instance, they said they enjoy RNG, and I doubt they'll touch the scaling issue); the L90 talents are the last thing we need to bring to another expansion.

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  11. #11
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    They're all conceptually interesting for Arcane, but that's about it.

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Mage lvl 90 talents are by far the most annoying.

    Personally I feel the class should get the MoP-Warlock treatment and be remade from the ground up.
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  13. #13
    All 3 are boring. All do the same thing in different ways. Using them are a nuisance. When I use them I am not thinking "oh yea I got my damage increase up" but I am thinking "FFS my buffs about to fade got to stop casting to renew this shit."

  14. #14
    Oh god... these results are pretty bad.
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  15. #15
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Invocation with such a short cast time and such a long duration is just pointless. Its nearly a passive.

    IW I've never bothered using in pve and from what I've heard only caused burst issues in pvp.

    RoP is just overkill. Arcane already can't cast while moving.
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  16. #16
    I have an 85 mage (so I'm no expert and won't pretend to be) but when I think about the mage 90 talents they are pretty eh. Heck the Warlock ones are too (No one is not taking Kil'jaden for the move and cast). I think most classes (or the classes I have been playing *Pally, Warlock, Priest, Shaman, and Rogue at 90*) have pretty eh lvl90 talents. Each spec has one talent (some cases it's one talent for the whole class) you will take it seems. For example Holy Paladin uses Holy Prism but Ret uses Execution Sentence. And as I said about Warlocks they all take Ki'jaden. The new talent system is kind of a fail over all. I know they say it was all cookie cutter and blah blah before but now it feels worse. Sorry rant off >.>

  17. #17
    I hate them all. Worst talent tier among all classes. Period.

    However I have to give Blizz credit - the 90s talents were a clever idea, at least on paper. Making mana a theme of the class, striving to wield overwhelming power, highlighting the burst aspect of the class. But that's on paper. In practice it turned out that all of the t90 talents boil down to annoying maintenance, more so after the tweaks. And also they limit mobility, without giving something special instead, whichis really a problem. Compare that to warlock t90 for example.

    The worst thing is that mage 90 talents provide damage buffs thus become mandatory to maintain at ~100% uptime. These talents would've been infinitely better if they were aimed at mana regen and utility only. But as long as mana means something only for Arcane, the devs had to tie the talents to damage buffs forcing Fire and Frost into tedious routine. What we are left with is an unfun experience, having to go an extra mile just to stay competitive. There's no sense of being powerful whatsoever and I'm pretty sure it was the main design goal of this talent tier. Remember how the devs said the talents should feel really great, overpowered even. Yeah, not these for sure!

    Also I'd like to mention that tier 90 hand in hand with tier 75 talents have increased mage specs homogenization by a lot! All mage specs now must maintain 15% damage buff and all of them have a mandatory dot in their rotation.

  18. #18
    Honestly I don't mind the new invocation it feels as though its a can you set up something to track it or not? thing which isn't terrible imo, hated the old one with the longer cast time and shorter duration it just felt wrong.
    Hate rop with a passion it feels so limiting on where you can move.
    haven't tried incanter's ward so cant really comment on that

  19. #19
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    I'll have to be honest, I just don't have them so much. I don't mind using them. As Arcane I would like to be able to rotate among them freely without completely changing my gear setup which would be possible if they sorted out the mana regen stuff. That's my only problem along with the fact that they're sometimes a bit boring. I just don't know how to vote on this poll.

    There, I decided that I love more than one of them. I am in favour of them being changed, but I'd love for them to stay in some version - for example as 2-minute cooldowns.

  20. #20
    Talents should be fun, our L90 ones are not. They feel like a punishment, it's horrid. Take a look at what other classes get http://www.wowhead.com/talent, there's maybe a few that are meh (DKs), but most of them are a reward for doing something well or an extra ability you can use in your rotation or w/e.
    The only defense I ever hear is that their maintenance isn't too hard, but is that really what we want from our talents?

    EDIT: I could live with them if they were cooldowns as Shangalar suggested, many L90 talents are cooldowns, so that way they would feel like rewards.
    Last edited by Latex; 2013-05-30 at 11:25 PM.

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