[Mage] Do you enjoy the L90 talents?

[nightfalls]

Want to give us level 90 talents that change our gameplay and make us take critical decisions? Alter our gameplay? That's what they were supposed to do, right?

It is not that hard. You level mage's damage with the rest of the classes and make the prizes behind RoP and Evocation real. 15% real dmg buff; HOWEVER, give us a punishment along with it....

Mage's nature is to be damage dealers. We don't mind taking more damage. We don't mind having no defensive raid cooldowns, not even after rogues got their smoke bombs. We're not in the raid to save lives. We know we're squishy and, again, we don't mind, 'cause we're mages and have tricks up our sleeve to survive even if we're taking more damage...

.... You would get to choose when and how to do it, and you would be able to compete with the rest of the classes even if you didn't. You would make huge mistakes and die while trying to deal more damage, causing your Raid Leader to shout at you and forcing you to get better.

Something like that would be awesome. That was the spirit behind putting these talents in the game for mages, that's what the Devs wanted to put in the game. Our level 90 talents ARE fixable. They just need to want to do it.

Trust me as a warlock player back in Cataclysm (and I heard it was worse before Cata), you do NOT want stuff like that. Take my word for it. Part of the reason I quit the class in 5.0 was aggravation with Life Tap and the Level 60 talents, much of which did get fixed in later patches as far as I know. Funny enough, after said issues were fixed, look at what caster became the de facto "stack this" caster?

Going to quote Ataxus because I think he put this better than I ever could:

survivability relies on trickery rather than damage reduction which isn't usually as desirable.

I don't even play mage and I can't disagree mages have possibly the worst 90 talents, and one of the classes that needs revamping the most.

[Themageflamil]

I don't like Having to do then but I love The 15% buff to damage.

[Simple057]

Nope and the bomb selection sucks imo

[Elegiac]

Nope and the bomb selection sucks imo

Indeed. I feel like they've gotten the level 15, 30, and 60 talents to a point where all three choices are viable; that's halfway there, at least The other three tiers just need to be scrapped and started over.

[Hasted]

I would say the level 15 tier still needs some work. Icy Flows doesn't have any fights where it can work effectively and PoM is weak outside of Patchwerk and Combustion building.

[Raugnaut]

I USED to like IW. However, the nerf really put me off, now I just use it for passive fire and forget. Hate RoP, Hate Invocation.

[Avikur]

hate all 3, the fix is simple, take away the buff to damage, make all 3 a way of getting mana back but don't use them to buff damage.

ROP - make it so your mana doesn't regenerate passively unless you're stood in the rune and if you are stood in it, make it regenerate 100% faster or something
Invocation - take evocation away and make this do what evocation does currently
IW - the same as it is now but without the damage buff

[Milamber]

I don't like Having to do then but I love The 15% buff to damage.

The thing is: the other classes get those +15% 'for free' - without having to cast Evocation once per Minute

hate all 3, the fix is simple, take away the buff to damage, make all 3 a way of getting mana back but don't use them to buff damage.

ROP - make it so your mana doesn't regenerate passively unless you're stood in the rune and if you are stood in it, make it regenerate 100% faster or something
Invocation - take evocation away and make this do what evocation does currently
IW - the same as it is now but without the damage buff

I'd take that. That would be an easy fix for 5.4

[Deleted]

Nope and the bomb selection sucks imo

Yep they suck at what point did they think people who chose fire (or frost) want a bomb with the opposite element to their spec. So dumb, also fire used to be the dot spec with a large explosion bomb and amazing aoe damage now frost has stolen both this and fire's orb. Fire is now almost the opposite of what the spec was.

[nimryas]

I don't like any of them, they don't bring something good and fun at the same time. I would love completely different L90 talents, maybe some utility even instead of boring passive/active buffs..

[thesmuggler]

I love my passive 6% spell damage and 65% mana regen. I'm a lazy mage.

[Polarthief]

It is not that hard. You level mage's damage with the rest of the classes and make the prizes behind RoP and Evocation real. 15% real dmg buff; HOWEVER, give us a punishment along with it. You want to stand in your RoP, mighty mage? Make us take 15 or 30% more damage when standing on it, or make it tick a dot that slowly decreases our health and increases the more time I stand on it. You wish to evocate to get a damage increase, mighty mage? Take Evo's CD back to 40 sec and make it so that if you receive any damage while doing it, you get stunned for 8 sec and get no buff. You want to use IW, mighty mage? Take away the passive bonus and make it situational, exactly as it used to be... even make us take x% more damage while the buff is active..

Genius! Let's design L90 talents that make your healers hate you even more because you're taking even more damage!

I'm not trying to be a dick, but did you even think before posting that? They're trying to move away from "X fucked up, so now Y, the healer, must suffer". Why in the hell would they add something like this?

Indeed. I feel like they've gotten the level 15, 30, and 60 talents to a point where all three choices are viable; that's halfway there, at least The other three tiers just need to be scrapped and started over.

Nyeh...

Icy Floes still sucks in comparison to the other two, plus PoM feels sooooo good for Fire.

Flameglow just sucks; it just flat out sucks ass.

Cold Snap is good on specific fights where you need a second Ice Block instead of a G Invis (Heroic Jin'rohk). Other than that one fight, I don't see myself using it.

Those three tiers definitely have TWO strong choices though. BS and PoM, IB and TS, and G Invis and Caut are all strong choices. The third choice... eh.

L45 tier doesn't matter, so whatever. L75 and L90 just need to be scrapped because they're cookie cutter on a per-fight basis and are just retarded.

hate all 3, the fix is simple, take away the buff to damage, make all 3 a way of getting mana back but don't use them to buff damage.

ROP - make it so your mana doesn't regenerate passively unless you're stood in the rune and if you are stood in it, make it regenerate 100% faster or something
Invocation - take evocation away and make this do what evocation does currently
IW - the same as it is now but without the damage buff

Would be a fix for 5.4, but it'd be pointless for Fire/Frost that doesn't really have a mana issue.

I've come close to going OoM with Invo Frost with Time Warp and all, but never actually hit it.

I love my passive 6% spell damage and 65% mana regen. I'm a lazy mage.

I guess you also love not being competitive either. That's the core problem with IW, even if you used the active.

[Deleted]

I use Invocation! There is no other option for me... I just don't like the other two. I don't like Invocation aswell... but it's the best thing to chose Imo for most fights. At least it's just like a 2 sec cast.

[Polarthief]

I use Invocation! There is no other option for me... I just don't like the other two. I don't like Invocation aswell... but it's the best thing to chose Imo for most fights. At least it's just like a 2 sec cast.

Anyone who wants to do competitive DPS does too.

Doesn't mean we like it either though

[spaace]

Talents are fine.

What's the real problem besides the fact that people are lazy as hell or want shit handed to them?


Seriously.
They give us high dps, we do a little work. Get over it.

[Jaylol]

Talents are fine.

What's the real problem besides the fact that people are lazy as hell or want shit handed to them?


Seriously.
They give us high dps, we do a little work. Get over it.

The problem is that the pointless maintenance buffs (SnD, Inquisitor, mage 90 talents) you have to keep up is incredibly unfun and requires almost no skill to keep them up, despite that being the reason for Blizzard having them in the game in the first place. I guess it seperates super super casuals that just mash whatever buttons they want to to people with at least half a brain but that's about it as far as "skill" with these boring and anti fun mechanics.

[Polarthief]

Talents are fine.

What's the real problem besides the fact that people are lazy as hell or want shit handed to them?


Seriously.
They give us high dps, we do a little work. Get over it.

Seeing as how we're not even the top DPS and if we had better talents in place, our DPS would be buffed to compensate.

Without them, we're not viable, so yeah, there's that. Our DPS revolves around the assumption that we have them up; same with the Bomb tier. Both of them are MANDATORY, while a lot of other classes/specs don't even have a single talent that impacts their DPS in such a manner.

[voltaa]

Seeing as how we're not even the top DPS and if we had better talents in place, our DPS would be buffed to compensate.

Without them, we're not viable, so yeah, there's that. Our DPS revolves around the assumption that we have them up; same with the Bomb tier. Both of them are MANDATORY, while a lot of other classes/specs don't even have a single talent that impacts their DPS in such a manner.

Hunter's have a talent that changes rotation and effects dps, as do priests, as do shamans, as do pallies, mages aren't being singled out with talents thjat impact dps

[awildpidgeyappears]

Talents are fine.

What's the real problem besides the fact that people are lazy as hell or want shit handed to them?


Seriously.
They give us high dps, we do a little work. Get over it.

It has nothing to do with being lazy. Have you done Heroic Dark Animus yet? Try getting halfway through an Evo and you get targeted by an Anima Font, so you have to move or die. So you move. And you start to Evo. And you get targeted again. So you move. And you Evo. And you get targeted again. Etc.

When it takes 8-10s to get the buff reapplied, all the while doing reduced damage (as you're moving AND without the buff), there's nothing fun or interesting about that. I'm not lazy—I'll do whatever I have to do to keep that buff up, but I don't have to enjoy its poor design while I'm doing it.

And be honest, you know you aren't thinking to yourself every minute, "Boy, I love applying this stupid maintenance buff every minute! I'd MUCH rather be doing this than DPSing!"

[nightfalls]

Hunter's have a talent that changes rotation and effects dps, as do priests, as do shamans, as do pallies, mages aren't being singled out with talents thjat impact dps

Personally I don't like shaman 90 talents so I'll leave it at that. I don't know hunters that well. I do however think priest/paladin talents blow the mage ones out of the fucking ocean.

This is the difference I see:

The priest and paladin 90 talents (DPS spec) both provide means to handle situations: patchwerk, spread AoE, stacked AoE for instance.

The mage 90 talents make situations more difficult to handle: they either make you hard-cast, hold you in place, or require you to take damage.

As a comparison with a pure class, the lock talents (which I think are far from the best talents) are still of the first category: They give you means to handle taking damage (note, this is different than requiring damage to be taken), movement, or AoE.

The rogue talents (which have had to have numerous fixes) are also of the first category: They give means to handle lack of melee uptime, fast target switching, and patchwerk.

No other class has a 90 row that make situations more difficult to handle. Right now it looks like mages have to choose between the least of 3 evils, not the best of 3 boons.