How LFR has changed. / LFR loot problems

[HeedmySpeed]

I think I may be one of those players that wouldn't have ever played WoW if it wasn't for all the ball busting stories I heard about raids.

Frankly, the gameplay in LFR is so unfathomably boring it makes me angry which is why I never do it. I really don't have much respect for these tired mob models and reskins after reskins with hardly any new damage mechanics. Nor does it help that I can sneeze and they'll go down.

I'm really sad to see Normal modes get demoted from any glory they had left. The fact is seeing the instance and witnessing these new encounters is not exclusive to normal modes. That's a huge statement.

Sure it allows players who wouldn't otherwise see it for themselves during a current patch but that's a huge part of what drives people to become raiders. I know it took wind out of my sail when LFR was released. I had to question myself "why keep doing normal and Heroics if LFR is a click away?" All of a sudden my reasons dwindled.

LFR sucks.

[Glorious Leader]

I think I may be one of those players that wouldn't have ever played WoW if it wasn't for all the ball busting stories I heard about raids.

Frankly, the gameplay in LFR is so unfathomably boring it makes me angry which is why I never do it. I really don't have much respect for these tired mob models and reskins after reskins with hardly any new damage mechanics. Nor does it help that I can sneeze and they'll go down.

I'm really sad to see Normal modes get demoted from any glory they had left. The fact is seeing the instance and witnessing these new encounters is not exclusive to normal modes. That's a huge statement.

Sure it allows players who wouldn't otherwise see it for themselves during a current patch but that's a huge part of what drives people to become raiders. I know it took wind out of my sail when LFR was released. I had to question myself "why keep doing normal and Heroics if LFR is a click away?" All of a sudden my reasons dwindled.

LFR sucks.

You know what let's make a compromise. We'll remove lfr but on the box of every expansion Blizzard must state something along the lines of "you will not see the cool boss on this cover unless your willing to blow a clique of elites and commit your life to giving them loot and commit your life to the game in general".

If you NEVER do lfr I don't see why you have a problem with it.

Edit: I should say lfr is not without it's problems but the general rage on the forums about *shock* filthy casuals getting to see the content they subsidize for the raiding minority is not one of those. It is a small step on the way to correcting a gross inequality in the game. Raids take the most amount of time and resources to develop but the fewest amount of people see them relative to that. This is still in my opinion out of whack because lfr doesn't go far enough in correcting this, in fact it may be that raids just have to take a back seat to other crap (dungeons sure did this expansion and they had a far wider audience) but lfr begins to correct this gross absurdity. Now you may feel entitled to have them subsidize your favorite crap to do in the game but that's your hang up. Some people have such serious entitlement issues

[BetrayedOf52]

Bold part is what got me.... For alot of 'lfr raiders', they just don't have the time to block out 2-3hrs in a row to raid, bench spot or not.
How wonderful, as a casual, to make time away from work/family/life so they can have a 90% chance
to be sat out because a more competent dps logged on. It's no wonder they prefer lfr.

Let people do LFR as they please. If you don't like it, don't it. If you're not doing it, don't complain about it. It is what it is.
(I feel the standard "oh it's this lame lfr argument again" should be thrown in for good measure.)

Fair enough, some people don't have 2-3 hours in a week they can sit down and do something they enjoy. They would rather spend 30 mins pewpewing mindlessly at a watered down boss. Sounds fine to me, now lets make the loot blue text.

---------- Post added 2013-06-01 at 04:08 PM ----------

Seems as if it's not a very well thought out loot pinata if everyone complains about gold and not getting loot. And yet you seem not to notice the disconnect, even within a single paragraph. Why do you care about other people's gear? What business is it of yours? And really, while complaining about the rewards received for little effort, your solution is to hand out exactly the same reward but with different color text? Do you imagine that most people actually care about the color of the text on an upgrade? An upgrade is an upgrade.

In one sense I agree with you. The text color system has pretty much outlived any usefulness it once had and should be scrapped entirely. People didn't hesitate for even 15 seconds to throw away their purple gear for those lovely questing greens you got at first in Jade Forest. So what does that prove about text color?

I know for a fact people wouldn't like being full blues / half blues, thats just the way people are... the start of an expansion is expected, you know it's a reset and everyone will have too. I still love the idea of making LFR gear blue. If they don't have 2-3 hours to set a side in a week, why should they be EPIC.

[Jeire]

I am currently on 17 rolls with the coins as bonus rolls with 0 drops- now if you a lousy 5% extra chance for loot per roll( cmon that's reasonable right?)

that's 5x17 = 85% increased chance to hit a piece of loot. Now unless it is lower than 5% which would be really horrible don't you agree? it seems that it is just acting weird-

[Glorious Leader]

I know for a fact people wouldn't like being full blues / half blues, thats just the way people are... the start of an expansion is expected, you know it's a reset and everyone will have too. I still love the idea of making LFR gear blue. If they don't have 2-3 hours to set a side in a week, why should they be EPIC.

Let's flip this thinking on it's head for a second. Why should you be epic because you have 2-3 hours to commit every week? bear in mind their are far more people who can't commit to set aside the same three hours on a regular schedule every week then those who can and theirs even less still who would want to make such a commitment.

[SodiumChloride]

For those wondering if people "enjoy" LFR ...

Yes.

I hated normal raiding. It was too difficult, too tiring, and in general bloody boring. Wiping for hours on ends on a boss, stuck staring at the same 4 walls of the boss room, with possibly nothing to show for at the end of the run but repair bills, is not my idea of fun.

LFR is only slight more difficult than a dungeon run. It work well for me.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean no one does.

[clevin]

Fair enough, some people don't have 2-3 hours in a week they can sit down and do something they enjoy. They would rather spend 30 mins pewpewing mindlessly at a watered down boss. Sounds fine to me, now lets make the loot blue text.

---------- Post added 2013-06-01 at 04:08 PM ----------



I know for a fact people wouldn't like being full blues / half blues, thats just the way people are... the start of an expansion is expected, you know it's a reset and everyone will have too. I still love the idea of making LFR gear blue. If they don't have 2-3 hours to set a side in a week, why should they be EPIC.

Why do you care what color the gear is? Is your self-worth really tied up into this? And, really? If someone raids 3 hours a week they should get epics because... 3 hours is a huge commitment and proves you're so much better?

Every single post like this is one that I assume to have been written by a teen. Someone who hasn't yet had to juggle the myriad priorities of adult life, who is still centered on themselves and doesn't realize that there are other valid points of view and who doesn't get that this is just a video game.

If others find LFR fun, rewarding or worth doing, let them. IF you don't find it to be any of those, don't do it and move on with your life.

[crakerjack]

Here's a lesson I want anyone complaining about gear in LFR to hear... LFR. Was. Not. Created. To. Gear. You. Up. It was made to allow casual players to see content that they might not have seen on normal or heroic... I don't want to hear another thread complaining about gear, they're utterly pathetic. Even I, someone who hasn't played since 4.3 knows that LFR wasn't created to gear people up. If you want good gear, go do heroic... that LFR gear doesn't make you some god, it's noob gear and if you want to get all pissy over noob gear, you got some serious issues to tackle.

[clevin]

Crakerjack - while I agree LFR's primary purpose isn't to gear people, they do use it for that. They HAVE to in MoP because there aren't many alternate sources since there aren't heroic 5 mans being added. If you ding 90 now you'll be in 430-ish gear at best. Sure, you can run heroics and get some 463 blues but if your aim is to raid normal mode ToT* you need to be 495 or better for the most part. That's 30 ilevels. Your options for getting gear are:

1) World bosses. The quest boots from Sha aside, these are a crapshoot.
2) Crafting. Somewhat expensive for the 496 gear and seriously pricey for the 502 and 522 stuff on my server at least.
3) Heroic 5 mans but they give 463 blues at best and perhaps nothing in a given run
3a) Heroic scenarios. But you need, what, 480 gear to get in? They have a chance at 516s
3b) Regular scenarios. I used these because I got spec specific 463 blues and had decent luck - 3 to 4 blues in an evening of grinding them
4) VP gear. Hidden behind rep for the most part and also gated by a 1000VP/week cap it will take 2-3 weeks per piece.
3) T14. But very few people are running normal most T14, so you have to LFR it to gear and...
4) ToT LFR.

Craftables work if you have the gold but otherwise LFR is, really, your best bet to quickly gain iLevels. So, yes, people do use LFR for gear as well as to see content.

*of course to quest, even on the Isle, you don't need this level of gear. But you'll probably want significantly more than 430 or so even then and people will take the route that's perceived to be most efficient.

[HeedmySpeed]

Let's flip this thinking on it's head for a second. Why should you be epic because you have 2-3 hours to commit every week? bear in mind their are far more people who can't commit to set aside the same three hours on a regular schedule every week then those who can and theirs even less still who would want to make such a commitment.

If you honestly think it was just a matter of "time" to be a raider then you're sorely mistaken and don't know your head from your arse
Some players just can't handle a raid encounter like "Heroic Omnitron 25," I know I couldn't and our guild dropped to 10 man without me.

And personally it makes more sense to reward players who play longer, especially when you want a subscription fee.

And really, who says raiding takes so much time? It's a standard set by the very same "elitist" guilds you hate. But here's a shocker for you... you don't HAVE to adhere to their standard!

[taheen74]

Who LFR was geared towards:

1. Wonky work schedules: My old man works a third shift job (with tons of overtime). He is not able to commit to a raid group nor would he due to his schedule. Some days he works 8 hours a night, others 12 hours. He cannot feasibly commit to any type of raid group (he doesn't find out about overtime or 12 hour days until literally the last minute).

2. Family situation: Some people cannot commit to a raiding schedule to to family issues; be that a newborn, single parent family etc. For those folks, their schedules are sporadic.

3. Other reasons: former hardcore raiders. The game is 9 years old, a lot of those people that raided during vanilla and BC are tired of the hardcore life but still want to be able to see the content. LFR allows that.

4. Low pop servers: guess what? Not every server is Illidan or Area-52, a lot of servers don't have the manpower to put together constant pug's. For a lot of those people, a server transfer is not in their budget or they still have friends on that server and do not want to leave them. So their raid content is LFR.

ALL of these people deserve to be able to see the content. It doesn't effect you "No one drools at me" types anymore and ceased effecting you the day transmog went live.

Who LFR was not intended for:

Current "elite" raiders: you have your content- two forms of it (normal and heroic).

Don't like LFR, don't do it. It's that simple. It's not Blizzard's fault if your guild is "requiring" you to run LFR. If they are and you don't like it, maybe it's time to find a guild that shares your viewpoints.

[MoanaLisa]

I know for a fact people wouldn't like being full blues / half blues, thats just the way people are... the start of an expansion is expected, you know it's a reset and everyone will have too. I still love the idea of making LFR gear blue. If they don't have 2-3 hours to set a side in a week, why should they be EPIC.

I know this for a fact: If a drop is an upgrade over something you're currently wearing you will equip it and happily wear it no matter the color of the text on the item description.

[Libertarian]

If you're a hardcore raider you don't care about what other people are doing, and only care about heroic mode. Who cares if casual players get more access to content? It doesn't affect you.

[Advent]

Can't set up 2-3 hours for raiding...Interesting. Time management is very important. Many players would find more time to enjoy the game if they learned that skill. I've done it myself.

[clevin]

Can't set up 2-3 hours for raiding...Interesting. Time management is very important. Many players would find more time to enjoy the game if they learned that skill. I've done it myself.

For the umpteenth time... YOU'RE NOT EVERYONE.

Some people have other issues that means that they really cannot reliably commit to the same raid times and days week in and week out. Some don't want to. Others are in a guild they like but whose raid times simply don't work for them for some reason (for example, my guild had Fri/Sat raids. I go out one or both of those nights most weeks).

Those of you who are mature get this. The immature among you will persist in your self-centered attitude that your experience must be that of everyone else.


PS: Almost no normal mode raid group raids just one night for 3 hours. Mine is probably as minimalist as most get - 2 nights, 3 hours per night.

[Glorious Leader]

If you honestly think it was just a matter of "time" to be a raider then you're sorely mistaken and don't know your head from your arse
Some players just can't handle a raid encounter like "Heroic Omnitron 25," I know I couldn't and our guild dropped to 10 man without me.

And personally it makes more sense to reward players who play longer, especially when you want a subscription fee.

And really, who says raiding takes so much time? It's a standard set by the very same "elitist" guilds you hate. But here's a shocker for you... you don't HAVE to adhere to their standard!

I don't think it's just a matter of time. In fact clearly it's much more than that but let's humor him for a minute. Even if all it was was time what makes you so special that your time is more valuable than anyone elses?

[Advent]

For the umpteenth time... YOU'RE NOT EVERYONE.

Some people have other issues that means that they really cannot reliably commit to the same raid times and days week in and week out. Some don't want to. Others are in a guild they like but whose raid times simply don't work for them for some reason (for example, my guild had Fri/Sat raids. I go out one or both of those nights most weeks).

Those of you who are mature get this. The immature among you will persist in your self-centered attitude that your experience must be that of everyone else.


PS: Almost no normal mode raid group raids just one night for 3 hours. Mine is probably as minimalist as most get - 2 nights, 3 hours per night.

And you need to calm down and not assume I'm immature because I said something you disagree with. Maturity has little to do with the truth of my statement, and only serves to make your statement seem forced. Time management is a skill ALL of us have to learn. I've been part of raid groups that will accommodate my inability to set aside blocks of time for raiding. I've been in groups that raid for an hour or half an hour at a time on weekends, bringing players who were firefighters. Hell, those raiders had to leave mid-raid, and we called it. We STILL killed all the content while it was relevant.

This game is immensely versatile if you set aside a moment to organize your time effectively. Some people seem to be stuck on this notion that the way raiders play is rigid and uncompromising. It isn't, and never has been since as far back as I can remember.

[Glorious Leader]

PS: Almost no normal mode raid group raids just one night for 3 hours. Mine is probably as minimalist as most get - 2 nights, 3 hours per night.

That's my guild as well, although they keep asking me to work overtime and i keep saying naw.

---------- Post added 2013-06-01 at 06:23 PM ----------

This game is immensely versatile if you set aside a moment to organize your time effectively. Some people seem to be stuck on this notion that the way raiders play is rigid and uncompromising. It isn't, and never has been since as far back as I can remember.

Except in this tier when we've had to really be rigid and uncompromising given the difficulty and the limited time we raid in.

[Unalorian]

Can't set up 2-3 hours for raiding...Interesting. Time management is very important. Many players would find more time to enjoy the game if they learned that skill. I've done it myself.

Believe me, I have way more than 3 hours a week to play.

What I dont have is 4-6 hours to play every Wednesday 8:32-11:11pm and every Sunday from 7:21-10:58pm

A tight raiding hour schedule that 99.9% of guilds have is simply impossible for me because of my working hours and a baby son.

[clevin]

And you need to calm down and not assume I'm immature because I said something you disagree with. Maturity has little to do with the truth of my statement, and only serves to make your statement seem forced. Time management is a skill ALL of us have to learn. I've been part of raid groups that will accommodate my inability to set aside blocks of time for raiding. I've been in groups that raid for an hour or half an hour at a time on weekends, bringing players who were firefighters. Hell, those raiders had to leave mid-raid, and we called it. We STILL killed all the content while it was relevant.

This game is immensely versatile if you set aside a moment to organize your time effectively. Some people seem to be stuck on this notion that the way raiders play is rigid and uncompromising. It isn't, and never has been since as far back as I can remember.

And once again (because you do not get this) YOUR EXPERIENCE ISN'T EVERYONE'S and your seeming inability to understand that is what I feel is immature.

I know very few raid groups that would work around one person, especially if that person's requirements kept changing. I know of NO raid groups that raid for 30 minutes here and there. If yours did you are by far the exception.

This has little to do with time management and more to do with the fact that a raid has at least 10 people each of whose time is just as valuable as the next person's and there are a lot of times you cannot reconcile the requirements of different raiders ("I can't raid weekends"/"I can only raid weekends").

Finally, most raids ARE rigid - virtually no guild I've ever seen or heard of has raids that move around from week to week - they almost always pick times and days that work for the people in the raid and, while that can change it's just as likely that by changing a day or a time to accomodate Person A you'll inconvenience Person B. Of course, if the raid is comprised of people who have tons of open time in their lives this is easy... but *clears throat* not everyone does.

Can some people who are busy manage to schedule time for a normal raid? Sure, many of them can and do - but not everyone can. Some people have a variable schedule (see the post above), others have a spouse whose schedule is quite variable and thus they might need to adapt by taking care of the kid on raid nights, etc. Some people simply like their guild a lot but the raid times don't work for them (see my previous post) and they'd rather LFR and not raid than leave that guild. Finally, some people simply don't want to have set nights where they HAVE to login and raid.

I hate to beat this poor horse, but people vary in what they can do, what they want to do and how much the value raiding. No one person's experience is right. LFR lets people who can't or don't want to commit to a set schedule still see content in a raid-like environment and I still don't see a rational argument for why this affects those of you who don't use LFR.