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  1. #1

    What if Inquisition and Executions Sentence switched places?

    Not a month goes by that we don't have a "Inquisition is lame" post on these forums, and for most of us, if we got to make development decisions for a day, I think it's safe to say that Inquisition would be one of the first abilities in our cross-hairs.

    Basic outline of the change:

    -Execution Sentence becomes baseline for Ret and once again un-dispellable, a dispellable spell that delivers virtually all of its benefit/harm after a blatant visual 10 second warning, is a complete joke in PvP. This change also probably happened since it was giving Holy Paladins a very strong cooldown (I don't remember anyone bitching about Ret doing too much damage with it - in fact why the spell was made dispellable a few months after MoP launch was never explained by Blizzard to my knowledge.)

    -The spell will give Ret a bit more controlled burst on a 1 min cooldown (bridging the gaping abyss between wings being up), and also giving Ret another small defensive cooldown, which is pretty obviously still needed.

    -I would also rather have it not have a friendly use any more; a huge healing hammer over your heads is stupid, and so some healing effect should simply be passively given to the Paladin upon casting ES on an enemy (maybe a HoT called Undying Justice should be placed on the Paladin for the duration of ES). It should not be castable on friendlies anymore since Ret has plenty of stuff to offer allies in trouble already; in fact I feel that one of the biggest crutches Ret faces in PvP is that we can do too much for others and not enough for ourselves (obviously to some degree this is how a Paladin should play, but role-playing has to face some limits in serious game balance).

    -Ret keeps the 10% crit and 15% Holy damage from Inquisition as a passive, and get's the other 15% back due to having baseline Execution Sentence.

    New inquisition (top tier talent with Prism and Light's Hammer): Uses 3 Holy Power to increase all damage and healing done by 10% for 45 seconds. 2 min cooldown (basically still a sustained performance ability) (Also, I'm sure someone can think of something better, but this is thread is more about Execution Sentence being used more, than fixing Inquisition specifically).

    *Obviously these numbers are preliminary and there is no point arguing over exactly what they will be.


    Reasons for the change:

    A buff that simply always has to be up is boring.

    Executions Sentence is awesome, and I would love to see it in PvP more often - currently the spell is virtually unusable since a healer has almost 10 seconds to spare a global to dispel it (a balancing option might be to have it deliver it's damage in 8 seconds so that a healer can actually be caught off-guard and be unable to dispel it, but I would rather just see it as un-dispellable and Ret only).

    In this very old and mature game, everyone and their grandma can now burst more often than once every 2 minutes, so increased damage on a 1 min or less cooldown is pretty obviously needed. Anyway, let me know what you think.

  2. #2
    99.9% of Rets use ES in PvE and Prisim in PvP. These are niche talent points. I don't get why everyone hates inquisition. The only time it's annoying is when it lines up poorly with raid mechanics or with bursting for a kill in PvP, but that can be fixed by altering your play style. It's not a hard mechanic, and it isn't much of an annoyance.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  3. #3
    I'd rather see Inquisition baked in to Judgement. Every Judgement procs a 6 second Inquisition; stacking up to 36 seconds.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostyfire14 View Post
    I'd rather see Inquisition baked in to Judgement. Every Judgement procs a 6 second Inquisition; stacking up to 36 seconds.
    The game doesn't really need to be easier.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by sith View Post
    The game doesn't really need to be easier.
    Yeah cos keeping Inq up is so hard and involves a lot of thought...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Yeah cos keeping Inq up is so hard and involves a lot of thought...
    Looking at the logs of ret apps that we get? Apparently it is.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    I don't get why everyone hates inquisition.
    It's nothing to do with it being hard or problematic and everything to do with it simply being *boring*

    It doesn't feel good to use, you don't really see a visual indication of the benefit after hitting the button; you have to look at a damage meter to even see what it's doing for you.

    It doesn't add anything to the Ret 'rotation'; Inquisition is merely a chore, rather than a spell that makes you think about what you're doing and it doesn't have any implications for your playstyle or decision making. Nor does it feel rewarding or satisfying to push... it just feels lame.

    They need to make the spells work off one another so there's some *actual* complexity in the gameplay rather than the lazy option Blizzard have gone with which is "hit this button every half a minute or do poo DPS just BECAUSE"
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-06-02 at 10:40 PM.

  8. #8
    So do you think that maintaining DoTs on a target is boring? Keeping up rip, rake, and savage roar for a feral druid? Inquisition isn't the only game mechanic like this. Take it out and ret is just...hitting glowing buttons. Like DK.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  9. #9
    The Insane Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    So do you think that maintaining DoTs on a target is boring? Keeping up rip, rake, and savage roar for a feral druid? Inquisition isn't the only game mechanic like this. Take it out and ret is just...hitting glowing buttons. Like DK.
    Yeah and those kinds of buffs are dumb. Always have been. Seriously, there is nothing compelling or fun about Savage Roar,Slice and Dice and Inquisition. There is nothing fun about that. Ret is just a Holy righteous Rogue in all honesty.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Yeah and those kinds of buffs are dumb. Always have been. Seriously, there is nothing compelling or fun about Savage Roar,Slice and Dice and Inquisition. There is nothing fun about that. Ret is just a Holy righteous Rogue in all honesty.
    Without buffs to maintain what's there to set apart the good players and the bad? The game becomes too easy. It's already easy enough.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Looking at the logs of ret apps that we get? Apparently it is.
    Every class has people that come to forums to "QQ" about their damage being low when the answer is right in front of them:
    1) Not using X or Y ability on CD properly
    2) Not maximizing CD usage on a fight
    3) DoTs have silly uptimes
    4) Buffs(Inquisition in this case) have silly uptimes.

    Many times across all the forums, mainly Hunter though(as that's where I lurk the most), I see people asking what's wrong with their DPS and it's always the same symptoms of bad CD usage, not using abilities on CD etc. People are just lazy to spend seriously 5 minutes to look at their own logs before posting on forums.

  12. #12
    The Insane Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Without buffs to maintain what's there to set apart the good players and the bad? The game becomes too easy. It's already easy enough.
    Oh please, don't start with this "It's easy nonsense." This is a poor mechanic that needs to go away. It's not making anything more challenging. Tedious/difficulty. It just annoys people and no way makes me want to play my Ret more. Do you really care what sets good players from bad? Is that all that you're offering? We need a DIFFERENT MECHANIC. It's obvious people don't like it (Including myself).


    Every class has people that come to forums to "QQ" about their damage being low when the answer is right in front of them:
    1) Not using X or Y ability on CD properly
    2) Not maximizing CD usage on a fight
    3) DoTs have silly uptimes
    4) Buffs(Inquisition in this case) have silly uptimes.

    Many times across all the forums, mainly Hunter though(as that's where I lurk the most), I see people asking what's wrong with their DPS and it's always the same symptoms of bad CD usage, not using abilities on CD etc. People are just lazy to spend seriously 5 minutes to look at their own logs before posting on forums.
    Except this has little to do with our DPS.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  13. #13
    I do care what sets the player base apart. It makes it so that you actually have to pay attention to what you spend your holy power on, instead of mindlessly smashing TV over and over.

    And as for your second comment LOL. What do you think has to do with our dps?

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    I kind of like that idea. Execution sentence could be a spell that replaces inq, and deals some moderate damage over time.

  15. #15
    Inquisition is perfectly fine in raids and adds some moderate planning to the rotation if your desire is perfect play. Inquisition is however god damn awful for leveling/dailies.

    Glyph/passive of plus x amount of seconds duration after a killing blow would solve all my personal problems with it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    I do care what sets the player base apart. It makes it so that you actually have to pay attention to what you spend your holy power on, instead of mindlessly smashing TV over and over.

    And as for your second comment LOL. What do you think has to do with our dps?
    No-one is saying take it away, and that's it.

    Most of us want an alternative and deeper set of procs, situational attacks, and spell interactions which would add a much higher skill ceiling instead of what Inquisition is - "do you have your UI set up to stare at a timer?". Currently the only reason you would cast Ability A over Ability B is because A flat out does more damage. None of Ret's spells interact with one another the way most other class' do.

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord Volitar's Avatar
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    I always felt that SnD and INQ were just huge gimmicks that prevented me from enjoying the class. They could make Ret and Rogue more complex without this mechanic.(Rogue complex, what a joke :P).
    Last edited by Volitar; 2013-06-03 at 03:17 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    I always felt that SnD and INQ were just huge gimmicks that prevented me from enjoying the class. They could make Ret and Rogue more complex without this mechanics (Rogue complex, what a joke :P).
    I feel almost the same way. I'm sure blizz could think of some way to make pallies and rogues more complex without SnD and Inq.

  19. #19
    Pandaren Monk Sett's Avatar
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    Holy power has felt chunky and awkward. It's not always felt smooth in gameplay. The fact InQ just is another CD to hit while ramping up is a tad bit boring. Yes, it's not hard to keep Inq up. Not going to argue that. But did we really need something like SR or SnD in the first place? That and the glyph probably has gotten the spell some negative feedback as well.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Take it out and ret is just...hitting glowing buttons. Like DK.
    Tbh that's already how Ret (and Prot while we're at it) feels to me.
    There's nothing fun or interesting about it, it's really just as simple as Guitar Hero to figure out. You even get Star Power! Just instead of screaming fans you get mediocre dps.

    I tried it out for a bit, but yeah I'm with Valarius, the spec needs a lot of work. Way less interesting than DK; Festerblight rotation is legitimately fun.

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