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  1. #21
    Agree, when inq runs out and u have to choose between heal, instant dmg, inq.... So lame in a hot situation
    If i don't do the damn inq my dmg will be gone untill i get 3 new damn holy points

    " A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities "

  2. #22
    I think they should spend more time on making seals interesting. Outside of SoR/SoT the pve options are very limited. Their idea for SoJ on 5.2 PTR was a step in the way of interesting (it needed more iteration before it would be worthwhile, though). It would be interesting to see something that could empower seals or make them more powerful in some way. Something of a throw back to the days of classic/bc, but why not have a CD or proc that makes judge consume the seal but have an effect based on 1) which seal is active, and 2) any debuffs applied by the seal.

    SoJ could cause a brief immobilize if the target is already affected by the snare.
    SoR could have a burst of AoE damage.
    SoT could consume the stacks of censure on the target and deal a large portion of the damage it would have ticked for over the duration.
    SoI could be a strong self heal or maybe an absorb shield.

    Personally, the above seems more interesting than make an unneeded change to inq or ES. Right now seals are very much a toggle on and forget sort of ordeal, I'd love to see them get some attention.

  3. #23
    I dont see the problem with it tbh. Yes it can run out at a bad time when u just want to burst, but hey, thats your own fault. Time it better.
    About ES, i used it the 1st week when MoP came out, switched to holy prism never game back. I have to agree ES looks amazing, shame it has no use as of now.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-03 at 09:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by anabolicz View Post
    Agree, when inq runs out and u have to choose between heal, instant dmg, inq.... So lame in a hot situation
    If i don't do the damn inq my dmg will be gone untill i get 3 new damn holy points
    Life is full of hard choices. Deal with it.
    I like having to choose between a heal and dmg.

    To the guy above me, SoJ is fine. I always use it. Dunno why i never see any pala using it.
    It gives u basically a free talent + glyph + more burst dmg (the DoT from SoT sucks big time anyway.)
    Last edited by wickedbastard; 2013-06-03 at 08:00 AM.

  4. #24
    To be honest, our burst is fine at the moment. I also love ES, but as it has been told - usable only in PvE...
    Inq will not be changed (too bad, meh) because this is a spell mostly for Ret Paladins that are playing PvE.
    The problem of Inq is, that we're loosing HP on it and of course a GBC, which makes our sustain dps lower which is already... low.. (but we all know it already) and this is what they need to fix - our sustain, still a bit more than it is right now. I can feel the difference in 5.3, but it's still all about our wings.
    So in all -
    A small sustain damage buff (otherwise we will get nerfed), make Inq longer per HP and give us something that makes Rets viable in RBGs, more defensives as we're squishy.
    Oh, maybe FoL nerf too. Healing others for 230k is... bonga bong.
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thudin View Post
    To be honest, our burst is fine at the moment. I also love ES, but as it has been told - usable only in PvE...
    Inq will not be changed (too bad, meh) because this is a spell mostly for Ret Paladins that are playing PvE.
    The problem of Inq is, that we're loosing HP on it and of course a GBC, which makes our sustain dps lower which is already... low.. (but we all know it already) and this is what they need to fix - our sustain, still a bit more than it is right now. I can feel the difference in 5.3, but it's still all about our wings.
    So in all -
    A small sustain damage buff (otherwise we will get nerfed), make Inq longer per HP and give us something that makes Rets viable in RBGs, more defensives as we're squishy.
    Oh, maybe FoL nerf too. Healing others for 230k is... bonga bong.
    I never heal other people for 230k.
    Ret is actually a bit more wanted in RBG's now that they are a MASSIVE nuisance for mages. A smart Ret knows when to use Hand spells and can really save people in sticky situations. Yeah, Holy has the same utility, but Hpals are pretty crappy right now. Most RBG's are running Druid, Disc/Holy, Monk that I have seen, or the Monk is replaced by a sham.
    My team was seriously considering having me come on my Ret instead of my druid, but we decided to have me just go feral instead.

    OT: Meh... I just wish the damage was dealt in the form of a DoT instead of a self-buff. The only problem with Inq is it feels like a blank GCD. It isn't, but it FEELS like it. If it was used to put up a dot, it would feel better. That being said, I like the current ES. Snapshotting HUGE str numbers in PvE is fun as hell.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    I never heal other people for 230k.
    Ret is actually a bit more wanted in RBG's now that they are a MASSIVE nuisance for mages. A smart Ret knows when to use Hand spells and can really save people in sticky situations. Yeah, Holy has the same utility, but Hpals are pretty crappy right now. Most RBG's are running Druid, Disc/Holy, Monk that I have seen, or the Monk is replaced by a sham.
    My team was seriously considering having me come on my Ret instead of my druid, but we decided to have me just go feral instead.

    OT: Meh... I just wish the damage was dealt in the form of a DoT instead of a self-buff. The only problem with Inq is it feels like a blank GCD. It isn't, but it FEELS like it. If it was used to put up a dot, it would feel better. That being said, I like the current ES. Snapshotting HUGE str numbers in PvE is fun as hell.
    I haven't took a screen, but a dk was about 20-30% and I just critted him, *bang*, fully.
    "Oh, You're a legend, healing 230k with FoL is just hilarious"


    Well, yes, I agree with You, but as You can see, even You picked up a feral instead of Ret
    And yes, Inq as a dot would work much, much better, and it would also make it our sustain a bit better, wouldn't it?
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  7. #27
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    I dont believe making Inq to be a DoT would be better, in fact, imo would be worse, imagine this situation: You spend 3HP, DoT the target and then said target dies really fast, so you would have to use another Inq for next target, making it more annoying to use imo.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihal View Post
    I dont believe making Inq to be a DoT would be better, in fact, imo would be worse, imagine this situation: You spend 3HP, DoT the target and then said target dies really fast, so you would have to use another Inq for next target, making it more annoying to use imo.
    Let's see that situation as a feral druid.
    Tell me, if You see a target that is going most probably to die soon enough (this is what You said), You have 5 combo points, are You going to use Rip or Ferocious Bite?

    So, a player that would cast Inq (if it were a DoT, obv) instead of using TV on dying target would be just an idiot, imho.
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Meh... I just wish the damage was dealt in the form of a DoT instead of a self-buff. The only problem with Inq is it feels like a blank GCD. It isn't, but it FEELS like it. If it was used to put up a dot, it would feel better.
    I really like this idea. So you'd have the DoT, and the debuff would have a "target takes X% more Holy damage from the Paladin" effect.

    I can only think of two issues here:

    • What kind of debuff is it? If it's magical, it can be dispelled, so you'd have to constantly put it back on the target. If it's undispellable, you've got inescapable damage from the Ret (both from the DoT and the %Holy damage bonus).
    • Where would the +10% crit go?


    Now that I'm thinking about it, a more refined idea would be to have it as a simultaneous buff/debuff. Using it gives you the bonus to Holy damage and crit chance (as it is now) and debuffs the target with a magic effect dealing Holy damage over time. We could even leave the bonus at 30%, which would have the added benefit of raising sustained DPS and increasing the gap between Rets that can keep Inquisition going and the Rets that let it fall off.

    Having the DoT part as a magic debuff would give enemy players in PvP the chance to dispel it, but they'd still have to deal with the increased damage that the Ret does.

    Obviously the glyph would need to be redesigned, but that needs to happen anyways.
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2013-06-03 at 02:44 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thudin View Post
    Let's see that situation as a feral druid.
    Tell me, if You see a target that is going most probably to die soon enough (this is what You said), You have 5 combo points, are You going to use Rip or Ferocious Bite?

    So, a player that would cast Inq (if it were a DoT, obv) instead of using TV on dying target would be just an idiot, imho.
    That's the point, with today's Inq, i can just cast if the target is dying and still dont lose much of the deepesbecause i would be ready for the next one.

    Another thing is about our AoE, if Inq turn out to be a dot, it would hurt our AoE tools. Then we would need a way to spread the DoT making Inq even more of a pain to use.

  11. #31
    Ret isn't the only class that has to maintain a buff of some sort. A Mage for example has to maintain Invocation buff, while also maintain Nether Tempest debuff. Hunters have Focus Fire to maintain, given they have 5 stacks. Very few classes have nothing to maintain. The only exception is ARMs Warriors and to some degree Frost DKs. Given that a DK needs to maintain diseases and Soul Reaper.

    Inquisition is better then having people tell you that you face roll. Without Inquisition it really becomes faceroll.

    Execution Sentence makes no sense to make baseline for Ret. It's a stupid idea to give Ret another ability to spam. We don't need new abilities, but current abilities to work better. Even then, damage isn't our problem but survivability. We need the Cataclysm Sacred Shield brought back for Ret ONLY. So people don't just focus fire Ret all day long and call it a day. Warriors got back their 25% defensive stance, and even with a glyph we can barely maintain 10% reduced damage.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by muglia View Post
    Inquisition is perfectly fine in raids and adds some moderate planning to the rotation if your desire is perfect play. Inquisition is however god damn awful for leveling/dailies.

    Glyph/passive of plus x amount of seconds duration after a killing blow would solve all my personal problems with it.
    This this this.

    I don't mind it at all on long fights like raid bosses, but holy shit it's annoying for stuff like dailies where mobs die quickly but not that quickly unless you use Inq. It just feels clunky and sloppy and bad on simple solo content with low HP.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    I do care what sets the player base apart. It makes it so that you actually have to pay attention to what you spend your holy power on, instead of mindlessly smashing TV over and over.
    I'm with this. Imo, Inquisition is the only thing that keeps the rotation interesting. Without it, we'd only be spending HoPo on TV for single-target fights. I do wish it had a "deadly momentum" style glyph though.

  14. #34
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    Inquisition just feels like an annoying version of Slice and Dice. When I Envenom, it gets refreshed. It would make PVP a lot easier as Ret. PVE I don't really know much about. Don't see why people are so in love with annoying things like refreshing Inquisition, especially when if you refresh it at a convenient time you can clip it. I don't care about "herp derp player skill matters". I remember playing Ret when it was a horrible nightmare of failure and complexity and every single change that streamlines it makes it better.

    I don't want to keep track of that nonsense when I PVP. I want to kill things. I already have enough other things to worry about like kicking, stunning, healing, dispelling and throwing out multiple Hand spells throughout a match. I have enough 'skill factor' things to worry about without a stupid buff that has to constantly be kept up to boost so much of my damage. PVE sure, you're not expected to really do much more than hit buttons, move out of fire and occasionally pop your raidwall. But in PVP you have enough small things to manage without that hassle. Get it up once, that's fine. A lot of abilities work that way. Make it fall off if you don't TV every 10-20 seconds or something. That keeps it so much smoother.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Without buffs to maintain what's there to set apart the good players and the bad? The game becomes too easy. It's already easy enough.
    If anything, it should be replaced with something that requires more thought than "Is it about to fall off? Refresh. else? Continue DPSing"

    Could work more like.... Colossus smash. Short buff, modest cooldown. Maybe a proc instantly ending the CD.

    On the other hand, Ret is already pretty "SUDDENLY BURST" already. Something like that wouldn't help bring the lows up without making the highs higher.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Looking at the logs of ret apps that we get? Apparently it is.
    Anything involving thinking always causes lots of grief among certain people.

    Inquisition itself has never been a big problem to me - hardest thing was tracking it until I got an addon showing its duration next to my toon's head. It's always been the Holy Power buildup that's been annoying. But that has gotten better too.

  17. #37
    While there are some really constructive ideas hear there is on thing you guys can't seem to catch. Some of you are talking abiut pve and some of you are talking about pvp. The way I see it is no talent based ability should be able to be dispelled. Because ES is the highest dps talent for ret paladins for burst* not for sustainable dps which some of you are relating too. Holy prism is the highest sustainable dps spell because you can use it 3x as much as ES. I for one would choose ES if it wasn't dispellable. I have seen huge damage lined up with ES.

    Not to mention that and halo are the best looking spells in game.

    For inq you guys are talking anout the wrong spell. It feels clunky only because we don't have a spell to refresh it and since you u can only use TV at 3 hp and exo is on a 20 sec cd or proc refresh either one of these spells would make inq feel less clunky. Where that may make the game feel easier. It depends. Because in pvp you won't be able to keep inq up forever, you will eventually have to refresh it. Pve ya much easier but pve is already easy so gg on that one.

    Ret sustained was buffed a lot this patch but only by auto attacks censure tv and cs so 3 of our spells aren't affected. I'd rather make AW 15% increased to all damage 20% to all healing. And buff the other three spells to increase our sustainable dps in pvp/pve.

    Side note having our 60% increased chance to crit on our HoW would be nice to have back.




    Quote Originally Posted by Thudin View Post
    To be honest, our burst is fine at the moment. I also love ES, but as it has been told - usable only in PvE...
    Inq will not be changed (too bad, meh) because this is a spell mostly for Ret Paladins that are playing PvE.
    The problem of Inq is, that we're loosing HP on it and of course a GBC, which makes our sustain dps lower which is already... low.. (but we all know it already) and this is what they need to fix - our sustain, still a bit more than it is right now. I can feel the difference in 5.3, but it's still all about our wings.
    So in all -
    A small sustain damage buff (otherwise we will get nerfed), make Inq longer per HP and give us something that makes Rets viable in RBGs, more defensives as we're squishy.
    Oh, maybe FoL nerf too. Healing others for 230k is... bonga bong.
    This heal was obviously during raiding or after a duel because battle fatigue will greatly reduce this most I've done in pvp is 178k which compared to cata selfless healer is about 2/5 of what it used to be.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennegadelawlz View Post
    Because in pvp you won't be able to keep inq up forever, you will eventually have to refresh it. Pve ya much easier but pve is already easy so gg on that one.
    I lol'd irl.

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    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  19. #39
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    Inquisition should roll when you TV.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-04 at 10:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rennegadelawlz View Post
    Ret sustained was buffed a lot this patch but only by auto attacks censure tv and cs so 3 of our spells aren't affected. I'd rather make AW 15% increased to all damage 20% to all healing. And buff the other three spells to increase our sustainable dps in pvp/pve.

    Side note having our 60% increased chance to crit on our HoW would be nice to have back.
    I don't even know where to begin. First off the buff affected HoW and Judgement 2 of the abilites you are saying it doesn't affect. It also doesn't affect censure. So.... i guess your post is completely pointless.

  20. #40
    Just. Remove. The. Global. Cool. Down. On. Inquisition.

    Fixed.

    That is all.

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