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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Inquisition should roll when you TV.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-04 at 10:47 PM ----------



    I don't even know where to begin. First off the buff affected HoW and Judgement 2 of the abilites you are saying it doesn't affect. It also doesn't affect censure. So.... i guess your post is completely pointless.
    Ah and you think HoW and Judgement scales from weapon dmg lolz you raiders are silly. Sorry censure was affected thats my bad i thought its damage was = 12.5% weapon dmg but that is just the seal alone. Anothee note saying my post is completely pointless when you only point our one part is just funny because your just trolling so obviously your post is a waste of time.

    Man people on this forum are fucking dicks.

  2. #42
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennegadelawlz View Post
    Ah and you think HoW and Judgement scales from weapon dmg lolz you raiders are silly. Sorry censure was affected thats my bad i thought its damage was = 12.5% weapon dmg but that is just the seal alone. Anothee note saying my post is completely pointless when you only point our one part is just funny because your just trolling so obviously your post is a waste of time.

    Man people on this forum are fucking dicks.
    Anaxie has earned the right to be a dick, to be honest. If he says something, its 99.9% chance that it is right, because he'd be the first person to chew someone out for wrong information.

  3. #43
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    When people try to "fix" inq their solutions are usually worse. They just need to buff the glyph to reasonable levels for PvP use.

    Also TV refreshing inq is not a good idea. Drop it. Every inq thread i see this mentioned bunch of times.

  4. #44
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Let's keep this civil, please.

  5. #45
    The thing that sucks about inquisition is that while it's "ok" for battling bosses, it kind of sucks for everything else. You ramp up that holy power then get your inquisition going, then the mob dies. By the time you're at the next, the buff has fallen off. Kind of irritating. What is worse is that the class is balanced against having the ability up at all times, making it a nightmare for paladins trying to level for the commanding majority of the grind. Unfortunately ghostcrawler wanted the holy power system bad. And the only way to validate it's use was to create abilities that would use it. It's just unfortunate that one of them just didn't pan out all that well.

  6. #46
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennegadelawlz;21356827[B
    ]Ah and you think HoW and Judgement scales from weapon dmg lolz you raiders are silly.[/B] Sorry censure was affected thats my bad i thought its damage was = 12.5% weapon dmg but that is just the seal alone. Anothee note saying my post is completely pointless when you only point our one part is just funny because your just trolling so obviously your post is a waste of time.

    Man people on this forum are fucking dicks.
    The patch buff didn't affect weapon damage it affected melee attacks. You might wanna get your facts straight before trying to make a poor attempt at trying to tell me I'm wrong next time.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennegadelawlz View Post
    While there are some really constructive ideas hear there is on thing you guys can't seem to catch. Some of you are talking abiut pve and some of you are talking about pvp. The way I see it is no talent based ability should be able to be dispelled. Because ES is the highest dps talent for ret paladins for burst* not for sustainable dps which some of you are relating too. Holy prism is the highest sustainable dps spell because you can use it 3x as much as ES. I for one would choose ES if it wasn't dispellable. I have seen huge damage lined up with ES.
    I think you are mis-understanding what sustainable and burst damage really are, especially given that these have different meanings in PvE and PvP. Inquisition (and other SnD clones) is the tool Blizzard uses to keep the inherent Ret bursty damage in check for PvP while maintaining their viability in PvE. The comparable strenghts and weaknesses of ES vs. HP are another example of that. Yes, of course you would choose ES for PvP if it wasn't dispellable, but it's dispellability is the exact reason it does so much damage in the first place. On the flip side, I don't care about dispells in PvE, so while I can cast 3x more HP, my 1 ES does 4x the damage (or whatever the actual number is) in the same amount of time, so ES is the superior choice for sustained damage.

  8. #48
    Keep Inquisition application as it is now, but make TV and DS critical strikes increase the duration of the buff by something like 6seconds per crit, up to double duration. Would make crit nice again for ret (ranks behind haste, and mastery with 4set)

  9. #49
    So what is this really a request for? More complexity in the rotation? Ok, but we already have 6-7 abilities that need to be incorporated. While there is some downtime, it's only a global here and there. I rarely sit around for more than a second or two with no DPS abilities I can use. Being GCD locked is only fun on a Patchwerk fight and brutally punishes any mistakes or movement. If you want more to do, try making use of the Utility kit (Sacred Shield, Cleanse, Hands, Aura Mastery, etc.). Your healers will thank you.

    In PvP, the problem isn't really burst. Ret is one of the most bursty classes out there. If you don't have Inq up when you are trying to kill someone, then you need to watch your cooldowns a little better to make sure they line up and coordinate with your team. The real problems are the same ones shared by most melee: lack of a spammable CC, no true closer ability, defensive abilities all on long, shared cooldowns (hey-o forbearance), WoG/EF being such a huge DPS loss. Remove the cooldown on Repentance and lower the cooldown on Divine Protection to 30-45s. That's what I would do. That or let Undead roll pally :P

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by exriel View Post
    So what is this really a request for? More complexity in the rotation? Ok, but we already have 6-7 abilities that need to be incorporated. While there is some downtime, it's only a global here and there. I rarely sit around for more than a second or two with no DPS abilities I can use. Being GCD locked is only fun on a Patchwerk fight and brutally punishes any mistakes or movement. If you want more to do, try making use of the Utility kit (Sacred Shield, Cleanse, Hands, Aura Mastery, etc.). Your healers will thank you.

    In PvP, the problem isn't really burst. Ret is one of the most bursty classes out there. If you don't have Inq up when you are trying to kill someone, then you need to watch your cooldowns a little better to make sure they line up and coordinate with your team. The real problems are the same ones shared by most melee: lack of a spammable CC, no true closer ability, defensive abilities all on long, shared cooldowns (hey-o forbearance), WoG/EF being such a huge DPS loss. Remove the cooldown on Repentance and lower the cooldown on Divine Protection to 30-45s. That's what I would do. That or let Undead roll pally :P
    Yeah CC is probably the main issue, losing long-range instant Repent was a huge blow to Ret; Blinding Light is cute and all, but such a short ranged CC is not very valuable to a melee, as your off-targets have to be dumb enough to walk up to you. A very large number of talents change depending on spec, I really don't see why Repent isn't like that as well, at the very least Ret should be allowed to cast Repent while moving. Honestly, Ret should just get an ability that allows it to cast while moving in general (except for Redemption).

  11. #51
    I don't mind the concept of Inquisition by itself, meaning you have a slight ramp up time to build your first 3 HP's at the start of a fight, then use them on a damage buff instead of on an outright attack. However, it's the periodic upkeep that becomes tedious.

    If I could change anything about it, I would allow Templar's Verdict and/or Divine Storm to refresh it's duration, much like an Assassination Rogue refreshes their SnD duration on an Envenom.

    Or, making it simply refund the HP you spend on Inquisition provided that you already had the buff up (So not the very first one in a fight, but subsequent ones until the fight was over). One could argue that is basically the same as the first option, but it would at least cost the GCD.

    Or shit, as others have said, letting crits or something extend it by 6s per, whatever.

    Either way, blowing 3 HP every 30s just to maintain the buff, while not difficult, is certainly tedious.
    Last edited by Deathgoose; 2013-06-06 at 07:58 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    I don't mind the concept of Inquisition by itself, meaning you have a slight ramp up time to build your first 3 HP's at the start of a fight, then use them on a damage buff instead of on an outright attack. However, it's the periodic upkeep that becomes tedious.

    If I could change anything about it, I would allow Templar's Verdict and/or Divine Storm to refresh it's duration, much like an Assassination Rogue refreshes their SnD duration on an Envenom.

    Or, making it simply refund the HP you spend on Inquisition provided that you already had the buff up (So not the very first one in a fight, but subsequent ones until the fight was over). One could argue that is basically the same as the first option, but it would at least cost the GCD.

    Or shit, as others have said, letting crits or something extend it by 6s per, whatever.

    Either way, blowing 3 HP every 30s just to maintain the buff, while not difficult, is certainly tedious.
    Yeah, the idea isn't bad but the implementation is pretty terrible. The sad part is that considering how predictable and nonthreatening Ret is between cooldowns, Inquisition is the perfect thing to tweak, so that Rets have a bit of burst on a 30-45 sec cooldown.

  13. #53
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vathius View Post
    Just. Remove. The. Global. Cool. Down. On. Inquisition.

    Fixed.

    That is all.
    This man for president, please.

    I'd like Inq to be refreshed by TV, even if not applied or maybe it working differently altogether but.. If all that is too much, just take it off the GCD and I'm a happy bugger.


  14. #54
    It's not a terrible mechanic, lots of classes have to deal with something similar, but there really needs to be a better way to get it going initially.

    A 1-1.5 min CD ability that sets inquisition to 30 seconds. That would be perfect.
    Last edited by Wazooty; 2013-06-07 at 05:29 PM.

  15. #55
    High Overlord Dastuross's Avatar
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    I said this in another thread and ill say it again, SnD. Inq, and any spell like it isnt all that bad, how about you switch to prot and try to manage SS? refreshing when we have high haste periods, figuring out at what points we want to refresh it due to high vengeance, the list goes on, i wouldn't mind them making SnD and Inq like SS though, because i like having to track all those things with SS.

    Just my 2c from a long-time prot

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Das View Post
    I said this in another thread and ill say it again, SnD. Inq, and any spell like it isnt all that bad, how about you switch to prot and try to manage SS? refreshing when we have high haste periods, figuring out at what points we want to refresh it due to high vengeance, the list goes on, i wouldn't mind them making SnD and Inq like SS though, because i like having to track all those things with SS.

    Just my 2c from a long-time prot
    True but most of our concerns regarding Inquisition have to do with PvP, where such degrees of micromanagement are not just difficult but often just plain impossible due to the unpredictability of fights.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    True but most of our concerns regarding Inquisition have to do with PvP, where such degrees of micromanagement are not just difficult but often just plain impossible due to the unpredictability of fights.
    I feel like this sentiment is considered Common Knowledge, but has no real basis in reality. On the surface, yes, PvP would appear to be totally unpredictable. There are so many different classes/specs/abilities, it can feel like there is just too much going on to even try to understand it. As a result, a lot of PvPers, especially in BG's, just go heads down and try to do as much damage as possible. However, as any experienced PvPer will tell you, every ability has a counter and a tell. Learn to recognize the patterns and anticipate your opponents moves.

    This is because the trick to PvP is not how much damage you do, but when you do it. Maintaining 100% uptime on Inquisition in combat is neither necessary, or really, desirable in a PvP setting. Those globals and HP are better spent on WoG/SS/FoL/BoP/Sac/Devo/Rebuke/etc., until your opponent has run out of defensive abilities and you have their healer under control. Just because you select the DPS role, doesn't mean that is the only or even most important aspect of what you do in a given fight.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    I don't get why everyone hates inquisition.
    Because it's a boring mechanic. Keep it up 100% or you're bad. Period. Binary usage, no skill regarding it's use, just a "Press here before you can have fun" switch.

    Same goes Savage Roar and Slice and Dice.

    If you want more involving mechanics, then make a system that varies the length so it's often never the same duration.

    Excorism adds 1 second to Inquisition.

    Same mechanic, except now I have to watch and make sure I hit my Inquisition at different intervals now depending on Exorcism procs, rather than just hitting it every 30 seconds ad nauseum.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 06:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by exriel View Post
    Maintaining 100% uptime on Inquisition in combat is neither necessary, or really, desirable in a PvP setting.
    If you're only throwing up Inquisition when it's time for your burst pressure, you'll end up making it easily predictable for the other team when to get ready for CC and defensives.
    Last edited by Millie; 2013-06-07 at 10:46 PM.

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