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  1. #41
    IDK about it being a gain over rune, if you can get to 12k haste b.p. which is realistic for BiS & early next tier sets rune will be incredible. Simply b/c it's better than bloodlust, and it enables you to spam CJL at huge speeds. Unfortunately CJL isn't even in simcraft at the minute so I can't really model it in that.
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  2. #42
    I am Murloc! aikoyamamato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch
    Is CJL better damage than Jab->TP?
    -No, it also doesn't have the same flow. Meaning you either expend incredible amounts of mana, or waste time casting Renewing Mist to dump with uplift. Short term it's "better", long term you'll be mana starved with or without a legendary. You also lose vital mist procs, which is a large part of why it's justifiable to play this way.
    Do you happen to have math/damage comparisons for Jab/TB vs CJL? Pure curiosity; this is spot on mechanically, but I have to wonder how much more CJL does if your goal is pure damage. For normal bosses we aren't doing heroic progress for, I've experimented with pure damage for quicker kills. CJL seems to yield me better results and, although mana intensive I'm able to manage my cooldowns (trinket/pot/tea) to keep from going oom.

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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by denstyrka View Post
    Did some testing with an H TF Unerring; it can proc off CJL, all T2s and CT (assuming EH as well but... yeah). The real issues with it are the low as shit proc rate in combination with unreliably being able to take advantage of its uptime. Ideally I'm guessing we would chi dump for 3s into a CJL channel, so awkward at best, but still obviously a gain over raw mana of a Gasp or sheer stupidity of a Rune.
    H TF Unerring dropped for you and a MW got it... I hate every caster in your raid for having better trinkets.

    Anyway, is glyph of surging mist worth taking? And how effective is FW without any legendary meta since my alt monk is never... ever... ever... getting his sigils.

  4. #44
    Dreadlord Korrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drikkink View Post
    H TF Unerring dropped for you and a MW got it... I hate every caster in your raid for having better trinkets.

    Anyway, is glyph of surging mist worth taking? And how effective is FW without any legendary meta since my alt monk is never... ever... ever... getting his sigils.
    I've fistweaved since I hit 90. It's easy to do, hard do manage the mana at lower ilvls tho. And the surging mists becomes a smart heal wich is easy to cast to the one that needs it on the move while FW'ng.
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  5. #45
    Should you really stop spirit at 5100?

    I can't imagine having that low spirit. It seems like you'd run out of mana incredibly fast.

    I'm at around 10500 spirit right now, and spamming Mana Tea with a normal Jab > TP rotation keeps me just about even.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by fps90 View Post
    Should you really stop spirit at 5100?

    I can't imagine having that low spirit. It seems like you'd run out of mana incredibly fast.

    I'm at around 10500 spirit right now, and spamming Mana Tea with a normal Jab > TP rotation keeps me just about even.
    Since it's dedicated to pure fistweaving it advises for the amount of spirit required for the soft hit and expertise cap of 7.5% so it's the gearing strategy that'll yield you the highest output in terms of dps, though to be fair the only case for a mana neutral or even positive fistweaving rotation at 5100 spirit is with the LMG.

  7. #47
    A legendary meta gem, fistweaving is lackluster without one. You can blame poor implementation of muscle memory for this.
    Just putting that out there, also, it's definitely viable to maintain mana neutrality without a LMG. The problem is it requires you to have a large amount of crit which is hard to come by at lower item levels. You also need to use mana tea as it goes, you can see this in the mana timeline for any of the capacitative simulations;

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  8. #48
    Fistweaving in PvP? Anyone?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Cysne View Post
    Fistweaving in PvP? Anyone?
    What about it?
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  10. #50
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cysne View Post
    Fistweaving in PvP? Anyone?
    Unless I missed something, Resilience kills it. -65% damage = -65% healing and we don't get any benefit from PvP power to damage.

  11. #51
    The healing is based off of the damage that would have been done if the target had 0 resil last time I tested it. The need to be in melee means you're just asking to get cc'd/silenced/and or kited meaning 0 healing is going out while you chase your target around. CJL however is AMAZING for pvp, especially if you're not being focused. I've even had a week of 2's cap, where the shaman I was carrying did less damage than me on 9 out of the 10 wins. All my damage done was Chi Wave, CJL, and Xuen.

  12. #52
    Blademaster
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    Are there any CJL haste breakpoints. If there is one close to the 6141, it may be worthwhile to grab it if you use CJL a lot as I find myself doing now that I found out there is a dps increase with a CJL spam.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBoss View Post
    Are there any CJL haste breakpoints. If there is one close to the 6141, it may be worthwhile to grab it if you use CJL a lot as I find myself doing now that I found out there is a dps increase with a CJL spam.
    There aren't no, it does scale exceptionally well with haste though.
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  14. #54
    Does CJL work the same as soothing mist, in that spamming the button would cause more ticks, and negate any bonus from haste, allowing you to reforge into other stats?

  15. #55
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tethrius View Post
    Does CJL work the same as soothing mist, in that spamming the button would cause more ticks, and negate any bonus from haste, allowing you to reforge into other stats?
    No, you'll just waste mana. The initial tick doesn't do damage, but costs mana.

  16. #56
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    Going to note in case this has not been noted:

    The buff from Grapple Weapon changes depending on stance. When in Stance of the Wise Serpent, healing will be increased by 5% but when in Stance of the Fierce Tiger, your damage will be increased by 5%. So when Fistweaving, switching to Stance of the Fierce Tiger quickly and then changing back after you Grapple Weapon, you will have a damage and subsequent HPS increase, possibly more useful then the 5% healing increase but would depend on what you lose when switching stances.

    I will post this to the Mistweaving thread as well.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBoss View Post
    Going to note in case this has not been noted:

    The buff from Grapple Weapon changes depending on stance. When in Stance of the Wise Serpent, healing will be increased by 5% but when in Stance of the Fierce Tiger, your damage will be increased by 5%. So when Fistweaving, switching to Stance of the Fierce Tiger quickly and then changing back after you Grapple Weapon, you will have a damage and subsequent HPS increase, possibly more useful then the 5% healing increase but would depend on what you lose when switching stances.

    I will post this to the Mistweaving thread as well.
    Can't see this being worth the global since it only lasts 8 seconds
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    Can't see this being worth the global since it only lasts 8 seconds

    I believe it lasts 15 seconds. The 8 seconds on the tool tip is the actual disarm buff and not the damage/healing buff.

  19. #59
    Just got an extra helm to drop out of ToT this week. Once I finish upgrading my current gear, I will upgrade the spare helm and stick a dps legendary meta gem into it, since on most of the 10m Normal fights a lot of the mana is wasted and the extra dps would be awesome to make fights end that much faster.

    But I'm wondering. For Mistweaver, you say it's roughly 20% ahead of the healing gem. Is that in dps? As in...will I see a 20% increase in my overall fistweaving dps? Can you clarify that for me? And if it's not 20%, what would you say is the rough dps increase I should see from using the dps gem over the healing gem?

    Also, the extra damage from the dps gem converts to eminence healing, correct?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    ...roughly 20% ahead of the healing gem. Is that in dps? As in...will I see a 20% increase in my overall fistweaving dps?
    Yes, I believe that is correct as the healer LMG does augment dps or healing output, it just allows for GREAT mana consevation/renewal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    Also, the extra damage from the dps gem converts to eminence healing, correct?
    Yes, that's what makes it so yummy to use. I believe that was actually confirmed very early on by GC.

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