1. #1

    Question Storm Earth and Fire?

    I play a monk and haven't used SEF much, and I'd like to know the correct way to use it. I heard it was really good, I just don't know when and how.
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  2. #2
    Mechagnome KenjiEvans's Avatar
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    It's a funny spell, but it's a Target-based spell, which means you need a target, and you can only summon one per target, but if you have two targets, you can summon two, and with you it's three.

    Althought it's a fun technique, I think Blizzard needs to change it, to something similar to the Mage's Mirror Image, something like where your character spilts into three, and you control them at once, or something like that. Or perhaps you are one and the two others mimic you like now, but some of your abilities should be changed to Storm, Eath, Fire based damage, so your kicks/punches will be the same as always, but to fire or nature damage instead. Perhaps a few skills could be changed ,like when the Shaman uses Ascendant, some of his/her spells also changes.
    Last edited by KenjiEvans; 2014-05-15 at 02:39 PM.

  3. #3
    It's for cleave situations.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Babylonius's Avatar
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    another thread 8 or so below this one, not even halfway down the first page:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Earth-and-Fire
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  5. #5
    That other thread has devolved into a conversation on macros. It talks very little about proper use of the skill.

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    That other thread has devolved into a conversation on macros. It talks very little about proper use of the skill.
    One could argue that using macros and mouseovers is part of using the skill properly since it cuts down on the clicking.
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  7. #7
    One could, bty that's not what the OP is asking. That's all I was saying.

  8. #8
    This isn't quite the info I wanted. I really wanted to know what situations SEF would be good to use in.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ScarletCrusader12 View Post
    This isn't quite the info I wanted. I really wanted to know what situations SEF would be good to use in.
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    It's for cleave situations.


    That's when you have one target that you want to kill and another target next to it that you also want to kill.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    That's when you have one target that you want to kill and another target next to it that you also want to kill.
    With the extra benefit for monks that you don't need to have them one next to each other since SEF has some nice range.

    There is really not much more to say, is for any kind of situation where you might benefit from cleaving several targets or you need to damage a distant target at the same time. If you want some examples to understand that better, let's talk about SoO...
    In fallen protector you can use SEF on each boss and basically damage all of them the entire fight despite how good or bad your tank places them.
    In norushen there are several situations where you might want to send a copy to kill small adds or to clear fast the mobs if you need to cleanse from corruption.
    In Sha of pride you can send your copy to damage the big add
    In pure AOE situations it can be beneficial to have both SEF copies spaming rushing jade wind in different targets, Galakras can be a good example of this.
    In Dark Shamans if your group kills them together you can keep one copy on the boss you are not focusing.
    In Nazgrim you can keep a copy on the boss the full time and focus yourself on banners and adds, you can even keep the copy during defensive stance and it wont give him rage, although it will hit him like a wet noodle.
    In Spoils of Pandaria as in any other cleave situations, send them to other targets.
    How about Klaxxi? and here you have a no-cleave situation, they heal eachtime, so there is no benefit from cleaving them and SEF will reduce your damage in the target that you actually want to kill.

    So in essence as i said, try to identify those situations where you can benefit from damaging several targets and simply try them out!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ScarletCrusader12 View Post
    This isn't quite the info I wanted. I really wanted to know what situations SEF would be good to use in.
    SEF, boss wise, is ideal for council fights and AoE situations.

    In SoO, it's great on protectors, as you're able to attack all three protectors simultanteously. It does phenomenal damage when combined with RJW on fights like Galakras and maybe spoils.

    Using SEF is a bit trickier. The first cast applies deploys it to the target, and the second cast on the same target retrieves it. It can be active on two targets, and attempting to use it on a third will cancel the effect, returning your two copies to you, which is where macros come in handy.

    Currently, it's on the GCD, which makes it difficult to use. You have to send out one copy, wait, send out the second, and get back on to single target.

    The next caveat is that they need to maintain their own Tiger Palm and RSK buff/debuff.

    So basically, you don't want to use them on AoE trash that's going to last less than >6 seconds. 3 seconds to get them on target, 3 seconds to apply TP/RSK, and the rest is SCK/RJW+minimalized regular rotation (basically only spending chi to prevent capping or prevent TP/RSK from falling off) and using energising brew for prolonged AoE periods.

    Finally, you also want to try and put your SEF on the two targets who are the slowest to die in a trash pull. For example, putting them on grunts in Galakras means they'll disappear long before the rest of the adds go down, which means you either have to go without, or re-summon them; both are damage losses in comparison to getting them right in the first place.

    The macros and weakauras in the other thread will be immensely useful to you, tracking who your SEF are attack, having a prompt warning you if you're attacking the same target as one of your SEF, being able to see if one of them ends prematurely, and being able to remove them with ease (using a cancelaura macro to do so is off the GCD) to reassign them is critical.

  12. #12
    Since folks are listing bosses that SEF is good for, I also use one on the Shredder during Siegecrafter if I'm not on belts.

  13. #13
    The rule of thumb I've been using is if the mob I'm putting it on will live 15s or more and I try to get Tiger Palm and RSK up for it quickly.

  14. #14
    It not carrying over 3 different dps multipliers if a little silly. It should copy the tigerpalm and TEB buffs IMO.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayma View Post
    It not carrying over 3 different dps multipliers if a little silly. It should copy the tigerpalm and TEB buffs IMO.
    It does, what makes you think it doesn't? RSK is the only separate thing the spirits need.
    Theorycrafting is on hold until the WoD beta is far enough along for number tuning to happen.

  16. #16
    Blademaster Ruhye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    It does, what makes you think it doesn't? RSK is the only separate thing the spirits need.
    Expanding on this, Your clones apply their own RSK debuff which affects only their skills, and when you cast Tigerpalm when they are up, they gain it for 20 seconds past that time like you do. Also, they gain TEB when you cast it, but if they die and you recast them they will no longer have it, resulting in a unfortunate loss of damage. This brings up the note of where a few Windwalkers stand to gain damage, by being sure of when they use TEB in relation to their clones, that the clones will get the full duration effect of the buff, and actively reapplying your buff and debuff when you cast them and they make it to their target. Do not under any circumstances cast them with TEB if they will die to lack of tank aggro, when you could have waited and had a full 15 second TEB clone usage. If you have the choice of putting them on a pile of adds, place it on one that that will live the longest. Do not single-target your clone's targets, they don't copy spells on the same target, i see this a LOT in LFR and it hurts my head.

    SEF will be a gain generally if you can get them up when you have nothing else to do, or when it's worth your time to do so over other actions, an example being the boss pull of Dark Shamans or the last targeted add on Nazgrim that you are sure will live a extended period of time due to it being last priority.

    This intricacy moves over into smaller minmaxxing, such as delaying your clone cast on things that will live VERY long to make sure you can instantly apply RSK, and making sure than when you do, they are not in midair flying towards the target as they will not copy target spells until they are next to the target, resulting in your use and theirs not registering.

    On Thok, you can use it on normal strongly for a few stacks, and heroic for around 2 stacks while you beat up the Jailor, then take it off when Thok gets too fast and use Tiger's Lust and Nitro Boosts to stick by Thok. While dangerous, this is rewarding. If you can think of a moment where you will be able to cleave, on any two to three targets for 10-15 seconds + you have a excellent opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gianavel View Post
    Since folks are listing bosses that SEF is good for, I also use one on the Shredder during Siegecrafter if I'm not on belts.
    While this may seem like a good idea in practice only if you tank cannot kill it, although it lives for a extended period of time it has a debuff that decreases the damage your clone will do by a VAST amount of damage, making it a damage loss. You'd maybe leave that job to the range if it really came down to it, so they can
    Last edited by Ruhye; 2014-05-16 at 04:58 AM.

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