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  1. #1881
    Decagon:
    Consider it like this; you were killed by the mafia for being too close to the truth. I was not.
    To quote the mafia thread: "Dyra: I want Decagon dead!"
    Nobody said that about me, you know. Because Krayzy had me around his finger.

    --

    It really weighed on me on the last day, to be honest. What could I have been doing differently to not end up in this situation?
    Well, obviously, my understanding of lurkers being the biggest issue. Lynching a lurker seems like solid play to me, as only a non-townie should be lurking. Lynching a lurker on day 1 is something I would still have done. But in this crowd, not on day 2 anymore. It is socially acceptable and even somehow respected to lurk like crazy. It is seriously what killed the town victory chances in my view, and the mafia killing off all the vocal players really sealed it.

    After the failure lynch on Kel I had to re-evaluate my stance on lynching lurkers. Which meant I could no longer reasonably go for Virothe. I could be mad at him like hell, I could apply pressure (I did), but I couldn't really place a vote at him at the end of the day. At that point he really was safe against attacks. Kel ensured his safety. Because if I could go for virothe, I would also have to go for listo, tziva, martmoves, treann, omertocracy, kasierith... yeah, half of that list is scum. But the mafia can steer that lynch as they need to, and while I don't have any indication on whom to lynch, the mafia does and the result will be exactly as we saw: out of that list, Omertocracy went down, just like the mafia wanted. Lurkers really killed this game. I shall remember the next game. Lurker lynching is no good after day 1. It is a good lesson. But it also removes a very large source of scum suspicion if we cannot use that as a scum detector. This is a problem, and you townies who lurked are guilty of it. The ones of you(us) are new I can forgive though. Now you know for the next time, and Omertocracy and Tziva really got active towards the end. But my mind was really already hardened at that point. Next time do it from the start

    Town power roles failing to speak up was probably the second most damning thing that went wrong. I cannot really take any blame for this. Had Treann spoken up, we would at least got another investigation - OR - a confirmed hitman. We would still be behind, but it certainly did not help that we wasted a lynch on our own power role like that.

    Doctoring also went wrong, but frankly, there isn't much we could do about that. Hypermode tried a WIFOM play on Anakso, and I cannot blame him for it going wrong. I can blame him for disappearing, forcing me to spend oh-so-much efforts trying to figure out whether EN was scum or not. If I could reasonably clear EN/Hypermode early on, I would probably have focused quite a lot more on Uggor. As it was, Uggor was a distant fourth in suspiciousness on the last gameday, after EN, listo and hypermode. Imagine that list being halved, what that would have done for the game!

    As for blood fox. Well, you saw it and you tried. For that I will respect you a lot. I would not have seen it without your play. Possibly neither would the mafia. I wish the town wouldn't have killed you, as the only sane play was indeed that he was doing a smokescreen. The problem is, it was so obviously a smokescreen that the mafia could rightly claim that you were doing odd stuff. And they got town support in doing so. In retrospect, Krayzy and Martmoves being so aggressive on that note should have given me a hint. That is something I should have noted, and probably my biggest mistake all game. But Krayzy went ahead and somehow moved himself to guaranteed town in my eyes. Amazing how that happened, really, and it is probably my second biggest mistake for not being more critical about.

    I will learn from this and improve the next time.

    --

    Either way; this game was really fun, and while I don't think the town could possibly have won it with the amount of lurkers and misplay going on, I do not consider it a bad game at all. While I will totally play to WIN, there was still much enjoyment to be found in this mindgame, despite I don't think victory was reasonably achievable. But that's the players, not the game that is at fault. I don't mind really. Because I had fun.

    Thank you all for participating, and I hope to play with you all again!
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  2. #1882
    Grunt Robozerim's Avatar
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    I'd like to say I can take consolation from the fact that my trust list wasn't all wrong, but to be fair, with so many scum (traitors included there), it'd be odd if I didn't have a bunch of scum at the bottom of my trust list. I look forward to the next game, hopefully I can redeem myself from this mess.

  3. #1883
    Keyboard Turner MartMoves's Avatar
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    Meh, I had difficulty finding out who was mafia, the voting went alright, but targetting someone had a high, shoot myself in the foot ratio

  4. #1884
    The town lost for one simple reason:
    Nobody was brave enough to push lynches on scum. Everyone thought Uggor was scum, but he got voted on almost zero times for several days. You can't win the game by saying "X looks suspicious!" You have to actually lynch them for it.

    For way too long the town just backed off of anyone who put up the slightest bit of retort. People need to realize that the mafia are going to jump on and push "easy" lynches. Lurkers are a great target for them, people like kel and NFT who won't have much to say even as they're being led to the gallows. But there's a difference between strategic lurking and just not playing. Lynching people for not playing at all is exactly what the mafia will tell you to do. Instead, you should look at people who are actively watching/playing but avoiding saying much.

    If you read the dead thread you might've seen me say this, but there was a point in time about 2 game days ago where the "who posted?" list was town town Krayzy town town town town town town town town scum scum scum scum scum scum. The only person on the mafia team who wasn't actively (see: active) lurking was Krayzy, but when people got called out for it (Virothe) they just pulled some garbage excuse out of thin air (this is just how I play? Seriously? You guys seriously let him get away with that?) and everyone forgot about it.

    If people look suspicious, kill them. Everyone will ALWAYS have an excuse. Mafia don't just come quietly because someone figured it out. The town's only successful lynch was because of a cop investigation, otherwise the mafia led the town to lynching townies literally the entire game. People should use this as a learning session for the future - how not to be town players.

    I'm honestly not that disappointed, I think my game was a success because the better team that deserved to win did so. Very little RNG was involved (mafia did get lucky grabbing a traitor n1 but they would've won anyway the way people were playing) and the game was pretty much decided by the grotesque mislynching going on, as opposed to previous games where who gets NKed or not ends up deciding the game.

    If anyone likes this setup I'll be happy to host a similar game in the future. Even one day 1 there was a lot of actual discussion and the game was pretty active except for a few people, so it looked like people had a good time to me.

    Remember, if people are playing anti-town they deserve to be lynched, their affiliation is no longer important. 9/10 times they will show up as scum (surprise!).
    Last edited by Lysah; 2013-06-24 at 11:18 PM.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  5. #1885
    Grunt Robozerim's Avatar
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    I can't argue against anything you said Lysah. I will admit that, despite doing very poorly myself, I did enjoy this game and would have no problem with seeing another game like it in the future.

  6. #1886
    Field Marshal Krayzy's Avatar
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    Danner, I think I had pretty much everyone convinced I was town. The only ones that ever questioned me were Simca and Virothe. They both happened to be traitors.

    When Simca was going back and forth with me I was wanting to slam my head through my desk. We knew Simca was a traitor at that point and were just waiting for night to do our recruiting.

    I did my best to buddy up with people I knew were town (you, Greeney, Everything Nice...where are all those people that wanted to lynch your doctor...) and when I combined that with the push to have Dyra killed I don't think there is any way I was going to be lynched this game. I also kept dropping hints that I was either a JK, roleblocker, or doctor and that is why I knew I could trust Everything Nice. I almost did role claim as a role blocker earlier in the game and say that the reason we didn't have a night kill on night 1 is because I blocked Dyra. I changed my mind though because I figured it would draw suspicion to me the longer I lived.

  7. #1887
    Grunt Robozerim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krayzy View Post
    Danner, I think I had pretty much everyone convinced I was town. The only ones that ever questioned me were Simca and Virothe. They both happened to be traitors.

    When Simca was going back and forth with me I was wanting to slam my head through my desk. We knew Simca was a traitor at that point and were just waiting for night to do our recruiting.

    I did my best to buddy up with people I knew were town (you, Greeney, Everything Nice...where are all those people that wanted to lynch your doctor...) and when I combined that with the push to have Dyra killed I don't think there is any way I was going to be lynched this game. I also kept dropping hints that I was either a JK, roleblocker, or doctor and that is why I knew I could trust Everything Nice. I almost did role claim as a role blocker earlier in the game and say that the reason we didn't have a night kill on night 1 is because I blocked Dyra. I changed my mind though because I figured it would draw suspicion to me the longer I lived.
    If you had come out and said you blocked Dyra on night one, that would have raised so many flags with me. I wouldn't have trusted that claim.

    Oh wait...earlier in the game. Nevermind then. Later in the game I would have definitely suspected you for it, but earlier wouldn't have been so immediate.

  8. #1888
    Field Marshal Krayzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robozerim View Post
    If you had come out and said you blocked Dyra on night one, that would have raised so many flags with me. I wouldn't have trusted that claim.

    Oh wait...earlier in the game. Nevermind then. Later in the game I would have definitely suspected you for it, but earlier wouldn't have been so immediate.
    Yeah, it was going to be my "all in" type of move to get Dyra lynched so that I could fulfill part of my win condition. I knew I wouldn't survive until the end and would have had to hope the mafia was able to win out on their own from then on. I didn't have to make the play though because enough people followed my suspicions on Dyra.

  9. #1889
    Best Kitten Simca's Avatar
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    Actually, since the game is over, I'm going to close this thread and direct people towards the game discussion thread (just following what Arlee did last game after it ended). If you actually want this open still Lysah, just poke me and I'll reopen it.

    Discussion continues here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post21559603
    Last edited by Simca; 2013-06-25 at 02:08 AM.
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