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  1. #41
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    I don't like seeing Diablo until the very end. And when I do, I want the room to be dark or grim. That's what made Diablo so terrifying or ultra-badass. In 1 you go levels after levels to see the world get much more Hellish 'til you finally unlock his room. Even then it's a fucking bitch to see unless you loved to dump light radius on your character.

    The second has this eerie path of feeling we're going straight to his door step and fighting him. The scene changes from the lava vision to a dark red one that gives the whole fight a different feeling of uberness. Granted, farming will phase the effect out but hot damn was it cool the first couple times I witnessed it.

    We don't have that in D3. We have some cool fights but Diablo isn't terrifying. You can't the Lord of Terror not be scary at some level. I enjoyed the whole Leah ordeal, I just wish they made the she-Diablor or whatever it turned into something spooky and not a cartoonish villain that needed to shout everything they were doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by r03dz View Post
    Also, Jaina and Vereesa going for a rid on their skeleton horses. :P (typo intended)
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  2. #42
    it was no worse than d1 and 2 imo. it was just more in your face. diablo has always been more about backstory to me than the main story though. the back story stuff in d3 is AMAZING if you actually listen to all the conversations and stuff. same to be said about the other 2 games.

    OT: idk what they could to to make the story "better" but as long as the gameplay improves (not that its broken) i could care less

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodles View Post
    Nope, not unless they retcon or completely ignore D3 as a game in the timeline. Honestly, not sure how you'd have an expansion with anything meaningful as Diablo is dead.
    in the final cutscene the black soulstone separates from Diablo's body and falls somewhere on the lands below, Shen strongly suggests that Leah's soul is not "lost forever".

    Also why would any victory over evil be more than temporary? men don't change.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    Akara: "Our mental discipline is matched only by our skill in archery... I only hope these are enough to withstand this awful trial."

    Tyreal, Izual: "Tyreal was a fool to have trusted me! You see, it was I who told Diablo and his brothers about the soulstones, and how to corrupt them. It was I who helped the Prime Evils mastermind their own exile to your world. The plan we set in motion so long ago cannot be stopped by any mortal agency. Hell, itself, is poised to spill forth into your world like a tidal wave of blood and nightmares. You and all your kind... are doomed."

    I dunno. I read the second quote in my head, using the voice of Skeletor instinctively.
    Diablo 2 had by far the best story and writing out of all Blizzard games.

    Those quotes aren't examples of bad writing, it's good writing, and there's a lot more of it in Diablo 2.

    No, Diablo 3 cannot be fixed. Turning Tyrael, an angel, into a human, i.e. a angel/demon hybrid, is a irrevocable plot hole. It's too bad because Diablo had an amazing story up until Diablo 3. The Sin War trilogy which set out the mythos of the war between the Heavens and Hell was also really well written. I highly recommend reading the books, or at least reading a plot summary of the books.

  5. #45
    I am sorry, but I think Diablo 1 and 2 never had a story line. Great cinematics yes, but coherent stories ?

    Compared to D1 and D2 the story of D3 is brilliant for an ARPG.

    A start, a mystery, a history flash back, the known bad villages, the unexpected deaths, the known traitors, the innocent that is corrupted within and a female driven Diablo.

    All fantastic for its first play through and a second review to feel good about it in the eyes of your hero play.

    After that, hit the space bar and play Creedence Clearwater Revival through the headphones.

    Anyone pointing to a story in D1 or D2 must have hit 9 back then...

    Anyone wanting an unseen story in an ARPG must see a specialist.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-06-17 at 02:46 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    Diablo 2 had by far the best story and writing out of all Blizzard games.

    Those quotes aren't examples of bad writing, it's good writing, and there's a lot more of it in Diablo 2.

    No, Diablo 3 cannot be fixed. Turning Tyrael, an angel, into a human, i.e. a angel/demon hybrid, is a irrevocable plot hole. It's too bad because Diablo had an amazing story up until Diablo 3. The Sin War trilogy which set out the mythos of the war between the Heavens and Hell was also really well written. I highly recommend reading the books, or at least reading a plot summary of the books.
    They didn't turn Tyrael into a human. He stripped himself of his immortality. There's a difference. And if you consider those lines good writing, well, yes, I suppose that Diablo 2 could be the Game of Thrones of computer game literature for you. The 'writing' in it is little more than constant exposition dumping though.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    The story in Diablo 1 and 2 might not have been spectacular, but nobody made the comparison to a kids cartoon villain like they do with the Diablo 3 dialogues.
    Have not played D3 (nor D1 and D2 for the matter), so the story is more or less like WoW's, i.e. B movie quality.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    They didn't turn Tyrael into a human. He stripped himself of his immortality. There's a difference. And if you consider those lines good writing, well, yes, I suppose that Diablo 2 could be the Game of Thrones of computer game literature for you. The 'writing' in it is little more than constant exposition dumping though.
    They didn't turn him into a human? Oh really? Then why does he look like a human and bleed like a human?

    Yes those lines are good writing. It's not the best writing in Diablo 2, for example, the cinematics are better written. But Diablo 2 is by far the best writing Blizzard has ever produced.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    They didn't turn him into a human? Oh really? Then why does he look like a human and bleed like a human?

    Yes those lines are good writing. It's not the best writing in Diablo 2, for example, the cinematics are better written. But Diablo 2 is by far the best writing Blizzard has ever produced.
    /facepalm . . . . care to share with us, a excerpt from the total of 10 paragraphs of story(Mostly Quest Text) from D2 that were better written? Im dying to know. . . . . . .

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    They didn't turn him into a human? Oh really? Then why does he look like a human and bleed like a human?

    Yes those lines are good writing. It's not the best writing in Diablo 2, for example, the cinematics are better written. But Diablo 2 is by far the best writing Blizzard has ever produced.
    ...Being mortal means you can be wounded and even die. Angels look like humans because we are meant to have descended from them, or at least, been created in their image. Therefore, angels also look like humans. As they do in most references to angels ever. When people refer to Tyrael becoming human, they literally mean that he has become mortal - like a man.

    And again, no. Diablo 2 does not have the best writing Blizzard has ever produced. Here are a couple of things that trump anything you could ever pull from the game:

    World of Warcraft; speech by Algalon the Observer, if the raid wins:

    "I have seen worlds bathed in the makers flames; their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and raised in the time it takes your mortal hearts to beat once. Yet all throughout, my own heart, devoid of emotion, of empathy, I, have, felt, NOTHING. A million, MILLION lives wasted! Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do? Perhaps it is your imperfection; that which grants you free will, that allows you to persevere against all cosmically calculated odds. You prevail where the Titan's own perfect creations have failed..."

    Warcraft 3; the entirety of Arthas' rise to power as the Lich King:

    King Terenas: [upon Arthas' return from Northrend] "Ah, my son..."
    Prince Arthas [kneeling before the King]: "You no longer need to sacrifice for your people. You no longer need to bear the weight of your crown. I've taken care... of everything."
    [Arthas stands up, walks towards the King, and holds Frostmourne up to him.]
    King Terenas: "What is this? What are you doing, my son?"
    Prince Arthas: "Succeeding you, Father..."
    [Arthas thrusts Frostmourne through the King's body.]

    If anything, the best writing Blizzard have ever done is in Warcraft 3. WoW despite the generally weak story arcs, has some incredible writing in places. Starcraft also has superior writing to Diablo though. As most point out, Diablo's story is a side object, it was neither a focus or major concern. It's just tells you why you're doing things and then bad guys explain why they're doing things and that's about it.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    ...Being mortal means you can be wounded and even die. Angels look like humans because we are meant to have descended from them, or at least, been created in their image. Therefore, angels also look like humans. As they do in most references to angels ever. When people refer to Tyrael becoming human, they literally mean that he has become mortal - like a man.

    And again, no. Diablo 2 does not have the best writing Blizzard has ever produced. Here are a couple of things that trump anything you could ever pull from the game:

    World of Warcraft; speech by Algalon the Observer, if the raid wins:

    "I have seen worlds bathed in the makers flames; their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and raised in the time it takes your mortal hearts to beat once. Yet all throughout, my own heart, devoid of emotion, of empathy, I, have, felt, NOTHING. A million, MILLION lives wasted! Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do? Perhaps it is your imperfection; that which grants you free will, that allows you to persevere against all cosmically calculated odds. You prevail where the Titan's own perfect creations have failed..."

    Warcraft 3; the entirety of Arthas' rise to power as the Lich King:

    King Terenas: [upon Arthas' return from Northrend] "Ah, my son..."
    Prince Arthas [kneeling before the King]: "You no longer need to sacrifice for your people. You no longer need to bear the weight of your crown. I've taken care... of everything."
    [Arthas stands up, walks towards the King, and holds Frostmourne up to him.]
    King Terenas: "What is this? What are you doing, my son?"
    Prince Arthas: "Succeeding you, Father..."
    [Arthas thrusts Frostmourne through the King's body.]

    If anything, the best writing Blizzard have ever done is in Warcraft 3. WoW despite the generally weak story arcs, has some incredible writing in places. Starcraft also has superior writing to Diablo though. As most point out, Diablo's story is a side object, it was neither a focus or major concern. It's just tells you why you're doing things and then bad guys explain why they're doing things and that's about it.
    Here's an example of good writing in Diablo 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LhaXh6xAR0

    People keep saying that Diablo 2 didn't have much of a story. That's nonsense. There's a whole lot of story in the dialogue and the dialogue is very well written. I've played Diablo 1 and 2, Starcraft 1 and 2, Warcraft 3, WoW, and I can tell you that by far, if you pay attention to the dialogue and the cinematics, Diablo 2 is light years ahead of all other Blizzard works in the quality of the writing and storytelling (Warcraft 3 is second best).

    I also don't buy this whole "mortal" thing. How is a "mortal" a different species from a "human". Angels and demon's don't really look like humans, so I don't see why you say that they do. There are 2 ways to see this as a giant plot hole within the established lore: 1. Tyrael is a human and that's impossible, 2. Tyrael permanently looks exactly the same as a human and that's impossible.

    The Diablo lore is screwed up beyond all repair. Bad writing can be overcome with better writing next time. But a massive plot hole being central to the story such as what happened to Tyrael is utterly irrevocable.
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2013-06-29 at 06:24 AM.

  12. #52
    Here is my rant about diablo 3's story ill try to keep it short.

    I was ok with everything up to cain's death and everything after. The fact Cain died to a Butterfly Pixie Disney Reject pissed me off. The man has lived everything from D1 to now and what kills him....Disney Reject But lets start from act one and work our way to the ending.

    First Act One: You kill a former king and in truth can't remember why we had to do this then you find a man who turns out to be tyrael. Then a Pixie disney reject bitch kills one of if not the main star of the diablo universe then you chase her into act two.

    Then Act Two belial was fucken useless it really felt like they wanted to put a evil in that act since we didn't fight one in the first act and his role made no sense. Hell as soon as I seen him in act two I was like "yep hes a prime evil ill have to fight". The whole bit with the black soul stone and killing the disney reject I can accept but belial's role was pointless.

    Then Act Three your basic evil idiot trying to send his army to kill you and even tell's you how hes going to do it......ZZZZZzzzzzzzz.

    And Finally Act 4 Diablo kicked the shit out of Imperius I did expect a bit more of a fight then what we got but it was ok. The whole game tyrael has been fallowing you and still has some power in him I guess dose not even join you for the Diablo fight and lets not forget Diablo is now LEGION......fucken really when he pulled the I am Legion line I wanted to rip my fucken ears off That is the most basic evil demon setup ever and I can't believe blizzard did it.

    The ending Diablo falls from heaven turning to ash to return again later.......

    Overall there is somethings I did like about D3 but Story is far from it and the whole game felt like the events of D2+LOD never happen. It was talked about while installing the game and that was it.

    I mite get the xpac but it would have to cost 40$ or less and anything above 30$ is really pushing it.

    "that is my opinion and me summing up the Diablo 3 story in nutshell"

    My final though's no blizzard can not rectify the diablo 3 story because what is done is done. In order for blizzard to be able to rectify the story they would have to officially state that D3 is not part of the lore in anyway and redo it. This to me is something that would take more then a xpac to fix to me they dropped the ball harder on this story then they did with the DeathWing age of the mortals crap story they did in cata.

    That is just my opinion/2cents.
    Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2013-06-29 at 07:47 AM.
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    Here's an example of good writing in Diablo 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LhaXh6xAR0.
    The presentation was fantastic for the time, yes, but the story, not so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    I also don't buy this whole "mortal" thing. How is a "mortal" a different species from a "human". Angels and demon's don't really look like humans, so I don't see why you say that they do. There are 2 ways to see this as a giant plot hole within the established lore: 1. Tyrael is a human and that's impossible, 2. Tyrael permanently looks exactly the same as a human and that's impossible.

    The Diablo lore is screwed up beyond all repair. Bad writing can be overcome with better writing next time. But a massive plot hole being central to the story such as what happened to Tyrael is utterly irrevocable.
    There are clearly female and male angels in existence. They have a humanoid shape. They have 2 hands, 2 arms, 2 feet, 2 legs, a body and a head. In what way do they not look like humans? What's the basis for them looking nothing like humans, especially given that they simply obscure their appearances most of the time?

    Mortal:
    1. subject to death; having a transitory life: mortal creatures.
    2. of or pertaining to human beings as subject to death: this mortal life.
    3. belonging to this world.

    Like a human, he will no longer live forever. He has become a mortal. There is almost no borderline between the appearance of an angel and a human if you take away the wings.

    Being mortal does not apply to just humans, however. For example, most animals are mortal. Most plants are mortal. Being mortal simply means that you can die, of natural causes. Being immortal means that you will not die naturally, but there is the possibility of having life ended unnaturally.

    Tyrael simply cannot be a human, because he was not born of humanity. He was created as an angel and is now stripped of his immortality. There is a difference. The idea of angels being stripped of their immortality and/or cast out of heaven is not a new one and has been explored many times before.

  14. #54
    Yes, the story can be fixed.

    The story itself isn't the bad thing about Diablo 3. Its the presentation, the pacing, the fact most of the interesting parts are in the backstory. The tale of the Skeleton King is far more interesting then anything else in Act 1. If we as the players got to see that, to be one of the King's champions and see his degradation and corruption for ourselves before finally killing him... That would be interesting!

    As for Tyrael, I think I agree that he's not technically human. He's something else, something in between. He's a mortal without the corruption of demons. If anything he's closer to what the Nephillem are (though again, lacks the taint). It just wasn't explained very well, and this is something that can be fixed.

    The main bone of contention for me is the killing of Decard Cain. If anyone remembers the tech demo shown about 5 years ago, Decard Cain was in it as he was investigating the ruins with his mercenaries. I wanted more of that! Currently they best we can hope for is he comes back in spirit form to advice us (so long as he's not like Zultan Kull...).

    Honestly I hope they make a Diablo open world game in future. Not an MMO, but something where you can roam more freely with your friends, visit many towns and battle demons and beasts in many locations without having to worry about the story too much. Like Skyrim, I suppose!

  15. #55
    Most players don't know even half of the diablo3 story.
    In order to get all the information in appropriate times you have to port to town and speak to all the townsfolk every time you do a main quest progress.

    Why would anyone do that if you are supposed to keep running ahead oneshoting monsters on normal-hell difficulties and farm one single "optimal" route to farm items on inferno difficulty?

    Story was not impressive, but it was not as bad as cinematics.
    d2 cinematic was way ahead of it's time. It was beautiful, interesting and had a great impact to the lore.
    D3 cinematic is way below average. Half of the cinematic looked like a brown something with a voice saying "And now I'm going to kill boss X". Arrgh.
    Last edited by traen; 2013-06-29 at 03:32 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    The presentation was fantastic for the time, yes, but the story, not so much.



    There are clearly female and male angels in existence. They have a humanoid shape. They have 2 hands, 2 arms, 2 feet, 2 legs, a body and a head. In what way do they not look like humans? What's the basis for them looking nothing like humans, especially given that they simply obscure their appearances most of the time?

    Mortal:
    1. subject to death; having a transitory life: mortal creatures.
    2. of or pertaining to human beings as subject to death: this mortal life.
    3. belonging to this world.

    Like a human, he will no longer live forever. He has become a mortal. There is almost no borderline between the appearance of an angel and a human if you take away the wings.

    Being mortal does not apply to just humans, however. For example, most animals are mortal. Most plants are mortal. Being mortal simply means that you can die, of natural causes. Being immortal means that you will not die naturally, but there is the possibility of having life ended unnaturally.

    Tyrael simply cannot be a human, because he was not born of humanity. He was created as an angel and is now stripped of his immortality. There is a difference. The idea of angels being stripped of their immortality and/or cast out of heaven is not a new one and has been explored many times before.
    The definition of mortal that you use is an adjective, not a species. If Tyrael is a mortal, but not a human, in what way is he a different from a human? Other species are mortal too, like cows and plants and fish, but Tyrael isn't part of those species, he's now part of the species known as humans.

    Again angels are different from humans. Angels in Diablo lore are vibrations of light and sound, they do not have flesh. So again, you have failed to explain how it is that Tyrael now looks like a human, in the flesh of a human, i.e. an angel/demon offspring. You keep saying he's a mortal, not a human, but you keep dodging how it's possible that he's stuck in a body that looks exactly like a human.

    There is also no other examples of angels turning into human in Diablo lore.

    There is no way to spin this. Nothing can fill this plot hole.
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2013-06-30 at 04:11 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    The definition of mortal that you use is an adjective, not a species. If Tyrael is a mortal, but not a human, in what way is he a different from a human? Other species are mortal too, like cows and plants and fish, but Tyrael isn't part of those species, he's now part of the species known as humans.

    Again angels are different from humans. Angels in Diablo lore are vibrations of light and sound, they do not have flesh. So again, you have failed to explain how it is that Tyrael now looks like a human, in the flesh of a human, i.e. an angel/demon offspring. You keep saying he's a mortal, not a human, but you keep dodging how it's possible that he's stuck in a body that looks exactly like a human.

    There is also no other examples of angels turning into demons in Diablo lore.

    There is no way to spin this. Nothing can fill this plot hole.
    Nephalem disprove your argument.

    Edit: I may aswell cite my reasoning:

    "The Nephalem are the first generation of humans on Sanctuary. They are also known as Sanctuary's Children in the Sin War books. The Nephalem are the direct offspring of angels and demons, with the potential to be even greater than both."

    Angels and demons had kids. They looked like humans. Demons do not look like humans for the most part. However, humans and Nephalem share a common physiology.

    Further addendum:

    There is also no other examples of angels turning into demons in Diablo lore.
    Izual.

    The more scrutiny the 'lore' for the games and world of Diablo is given, the less it holds up. In the end, it's not an airtight plot or world creation concept. It's full of plot holes, loop holes and a huge amount of contrivances. As I said, the story's just not that good over all, with lots of parts just making no sense or being contradictory to others.
    Last edited by Shinzai; 2013-06-29 at 05:00 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    There is also no other examples of angels turning into demons in Diablo lore.
    Not to come off like a ass so don't take it that way but did you play D3? Because in act 4 the boss before you fight Diablo was a angel before his name was Izual.

    Also I think the 2nd boss you fight in act 4 was one as well.
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  19. #59
    LOL@ people who think D2&1 had great stories. Even for video games they were criticized a lot at that time that the story were fucking lame for RPG game. The story were just there to give you reasons to chase demons. You guys realize that just "Diablo will always comback" thing made the story of thw whole franchise really lame in the first place right? If there wll be D4 and5 we will still be hearing cheesy lines from Diablo lol.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2013-06-29 at 06:03 PM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    LOL@ people who think D2&1 had great stories. Even for video games they were criticized a lot at that time that the story were fucking lame for RPG game. The story were just there to give you reasons to chase demons. You guys realize that just "Diablo will always comback" thing made the story of thw whole franchise really lame in the first place right? If there wll be D4 and5 we will still be hearing cheesy lines from Diablo lol.
    D1&D2+LOD did have good story's for there time was it going to the theater and watching it good...No but it was not bad ether.

    D3 story telling in a 2012 game fell flat on its face and it butchered the lore that was there before it.
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