Revamp inc...

[Verain]

And poisons had charges. Please don't forget that little gem.

[Mafic]

Rogues pretty much have no good visuals, don't know why anyone would be opposed for adding some.

I am opposed.

Time better spent making QoL improvements to rogue leveling and streamlining talents/updating skills.

*Leeching Poison a baseline poison (helps for leveling).
*Evasion improvement (anything lol).
*Expose Armor glyph baseline
*Crit being relevant again for Rogue specs

etc,etc etc

[Ealyssa]

Time better spent making QoL improvements to rogue leveling and streamlining talents/updating skills.

Cause clearly spell art dev are the same than game mechanics one...

[Mafic]

Cause clearly spell art dev are the same than game mechanics one...

Time is money my friend.

[Verain]

Errr.... No it isn't?


The guys who code graphics aren't the guys who make mechanical calls. Period.

[Kael]

Errr.... No it isn't?


The guys who code graphics aren't the guys who make mechanical calls. Period.

I'd prefer to see more done with our mechanics as well, but as Verain points out, those are two different departments. They don't really like expanding the dev team either... I can only guess at why, but it means things move a little slower. On the plus side, new graphics won't hurt anything. It's a little ironic and vaguely irritating because it's not what we're all hoping for, but at least it's not "rogues no longer appear to attack" or something equally silly

[Mormolyce]

Eh, would've thought they'd look into it about the same time as the model revamps.

Absolutely right, few hundres morons still playing a rogue don't deserve too much effort (even if they still pay 12€/15$ a month like all others).

Love ur sig

The above is sarcasm, not anti-rogue propaganda. To all: please note that sarcasm in text, especially on topics people take seriously, doesn't always come through very well. Please accentuate or pick less potentially-offensive sarcasm in the future.

-Mugajak

Yeah I'm about ready to quit this whole game because of my Mutilate animation. Because that's a massive issue to me.

[D3athsting]

Eh, would've thought they'd look into it about the same time as the model revamps.



Yeah I'm about ready to quit this whole game because of my Mutilate animation. Because that's a massive issue to me.

I don't really care if they put minecraft animations, only thing i'm interested in is a total rework of class mechanics

[Ryme]

i think Rogues will get a big revamp in next expac, wont be for 5.4. like warlocks did for MoP, a big overhaul of all 3 specs and better talent choices.

Pretty much why I stopped playing, the rogue is unfinished to me and will probably remain unfinished until the next expansion. I'm tired of paying money for an unfinished game.

A nod to visuals is a welcome sight, but still stings to know that mechanically, you're old as fuck.

[Mazius]

Actually PvE-wise rogue is very good right now, probably "TBC-level good" (t6 with glaives).
So there not gonna be any serous revamps, some cosmetic changes and several new talents instead of some useless ones.

Btw, simple and lazy fix to Nightstalker - with this talent all other movement increase effects should be cumulative with Fleet Footed (i mean feet enchant ofc). It would bring regular movement speed to 125%, and stealthed movement speed to 150%.

[Ryme]

Actually PvE-wise rogue is very good right now, probably "TBC-level good" (t6 with glaives)

Rogues work, I would not say they are "very good". To give an analogy, a wooden chair works as a seating instrument, but one with a pillow is far nicer to sit on. A lot of classes have some very nice pillows, rogues have wood and the odd broken nail poking through.

[Coldkil]

We are always returning to the same arguments.

Anyway yes - a working class is very different from an entertaining class. If any player finds his class good to play, he won't stop playin it even if its performance (more in PvE than PvP tbh) is under par for some aspects.

The problem is that we all love our rogues (i rerolled this patch but i tried - and finally managed - to convince my RL to use the warr as tank only and my rogue as dps since i do like 28k more damage with it just because i'm more comfy) and we all want to play it; just it's very annoying to spend even more time looking at our snd and rupture timers because it's the only thing we have to do (yeah, yeah, it's jot like this but you've got the point).

Rogue forums are really active and everyday you find people proposing ideas on how make our life better. There's a lot of room for improvement for our class - we just want to have more compelling rotations while doing the same damage.

We don't want buffs.

EDIT: as for my opionions, i agree that MfD looks a lot like a good passive ability - i'd get rid of Redirect for that. Also i'd like to see SnD as combat only, with two new finishers for Assa (poison bottle?) and Sub (really don't have ideas for this - shadow damage on autoattacks? sounds OP a lot, but numbers can be tweaked)

[Mazius]

Rogues work, I would not say they are "very good". To give an analogy, a wooden chair works as a seating instrument, but one with a pillow is far nicer to sit on. A lot of classes have some very nice pillows, rogues have wood and the odd broken nail poking through.

Rogue (assassination rogue) probably is the best melee DPS spec right now.
If you want to know how "wooden chair" looks and works - check on frost DKs and fury warriors.

[D3athsting]

Subtlety is a chair with a broken leg and spikes on top

[Mazius]

Also i'd like to see SnD as combat only, with two new finishers for Assa (poison bottle?)

Our top damage in PvE (assassination) - instant poison procs. By removing SnD you getting rid of roughly 40% of that damage.
By introducing new finisher into rotation you gonna lower total envenom damage and uptime (further lower IP procs).
This new finisher should really hit like monster truck, to compensate all those losses.

[Coldkil]

Rogue (assassination rogue) probably is the best melee DPS spec right now.
If you want to know how "wooden chair" looks and works - check on frost DKs and fury warriors.

In terms of damage, i agree.

In terms of having fun - well, i played a fury warrior through this tier. It's extremely tied to critical strikes and i found it clunky that my dps is based on how many bloodthirsts i can crit (bad streaks - nothing procs; good streaks - too many buttons to use and not enough gcds); but i felt involved by this rotation, to the point i was risking (also because i am fairly new to the class) to fail fight mechanics - this made my experience more interesting.

On my rogue i can do the rotation easily - both because i'm used to it and because it's way simpler. But the two things together give the result that playing a rogue isn't fun and doesn't feel rewarding; most of the times people look at my gear, then at recount, and finally say "hey, you're an assassination rogue, you do 11111211112 and you're done".

It doesn't feel good.

---------- Post added 2013-06-05 at 10:19 AM ----------

Our top damage in PvE (assassination) - instant poison procs. By removing SnD you getting rid of roughly 40% of that damage.
By introducing new finisher into rotation you gonna lower total envenom damage and uptime (further lower IP procs).
This new finisher should really hit like monster truck, to compensate all those losses.

yes, probably the thing is that all numbers must be balanced afterwards - it's absolutely not an easy task, but we need to start somewhere.

[Deleted]

Our top damage in PvE (assassination) - instant poison procs. By removing SnD you getting rid of roughly 40% of that damage.
By introducing new finisher into rotation you gonna lower total envenom damage and uptime (further lower IP procs).
This new finisher should really hit like monster truck, to compensate all those losses.

could easily be offset by a passive buff tied to Assassination, 20% additional haste from Swiftblade's Cunning or something. seems to fit with their design model.

---------- Post added 2013-06-05 at 11:52 AM ----------

i played a fury warrior through this tier. It's extremely tied to critical strikes and i found it clunky that my dps is based on how many bloodthirsts i can crit (bad streaks - nothing procs; good streaks - too many buttons to use and not enough gcds); but i felt involved by this rotation, to the point i was risking (also because i am fairly new to the class) to fail fight mechanics - this made my experience more interesting.

On my rogue i can do the rotation easily - both because i'm used to it and because it's way simpler. But the two things together give the result that playing a rogue isn't fun and doesn't feel rewarding; most of the times people look at my gear, then at recount, and finally say "hey, you're an assassination rogue, you do 11111211112 and you're done".

I'm currently trying to decide on a mainswap to my Rogue from Warlock actually. heroic progress started a few weeks ago for my guild and while I was decimating everyone else on DPS early in the tier, as we geared up and hit heroics I've had to resort to taking the concentration pills I use for intense study periods just to raid. Destruction and Affliction are easy on paper, but require stupid min/maxing to excel, and since I'm playing Demonology I'm needing to micro-manage various resources, cooldowns and my pet just so I don't fall too far behind our Mages/Enhancement Shaman. I think I might get bored of Assassination on normal modes but I feel like heroic mechanics give me enough to think about that I'd prefer a less complex rotation.

[Mazius]

could easily be offset by a passive buff tied to Assassination, 20% additional haste from Swiftblade's Cunning or something. seems to fit with their design model.

yes, probably the thing is that all numbers must be balanced afterwards - it's absolutely not an easy task, but we need to start somewhere.

I have no idea how introducing new finisher and making SnD passive would adress "involvement" into rotation.
Assa got main CP builder with almost half of your energy pool, with base energy regen around 12 energy (reasonable haste on gear) per second (adjusted by VW by rouglhy 3,5 energy per second).
No matter how many finishers you got, you still gonna wait for energy to build CPs outside of SB, you never gonna be GCD capped (or "involved into rotation", if you will), unless you close to being energy capped.

Intoducing "just another button to push" won't fix waiting time and energy starvation for assassination.

[Deleted]

I have no idea how introducing new finisher and making SnD passive would adress "involvement" into rotation.
.

me neither, good thing it's not why I suggested it.

[D3athsting]

I don't get why ppl automatically assume that the combo/finisher system is set in stone, how about a new and more flexible resource system?