Judge grants injunction against suspect being forced to decrypt his drive

[Hexitor]

I'm beginning to think that the people arguing that he should be forced to decrypt his drive are also staunch supporters of the Patriot Act. If that's the case, this argument is doomed to go nowhere.

[Agartha]

Not even close, people like this are no better then animals and should be treated as such. Pedos, rapists, murderers and any other crime like this that involves trauma or the taking of a life should be treated more severely.

If you commit one of these types of crimes you should lose all rights as a human being because to commit these types of acts means you have no care about taking away that persons right to a normal life, the right to live, the right grow up without losing yourself in needless thoughts of suicide and god knows what else the victims of these kind of things go through...

Personally I think they should bring back hanging here in the UK and put these kind of sick fucks to death, not send em to a soft jail where they do minimal time before coming out and starting again.

Not saying there shouldn't be hard facts before they throw the full weight of punishment against them but in cases like this the guy should be made to decrypt all the information and if found guilty then f**k him because if he's innocent then what's he trying to hide...

Until they've been convicted by a jury of their peers under compelling evidence they are innocent of the crime. I know this is hard to accept in the age of Trial by Media but regardless of the crime of the accused they must have the same rights and protections from injustice as everyone else.

[Ripster42]

I'm beginning to think that the people arguing that he should be forced to decrypt his drive are also staunch supporters of the Patriot Act. If that's the case, this argument is doomed to go nowhere.

To be fair, most of the people arguing against the injunction don't live in the US. St petersberg, some frenchie loccident, and a brit. Not sure if l'occident or whatever is quebequois of french. Regardless, not American.

Not all countries have our high regard for privacy (and the belief that if one person's rights are taken away, all of our rights are taken away). I completely agree that arguments that are based on differing base values are probably not going to go anywhere.

[buck008]

I've been catching up on what I've missed in this thread since yesterday. This is directed at Hyve specifically, though not specifically about one statement enough to quote it. The problem with using "common sense" to judge crimes of varying severity is the concept of legal precedent. Precedent doesn't really care if the case that established it was a child porn case. Once it is established, other cases can use it. This is especially true when it gets as high as Federal Circuit Courts and the Supreme Court. Those rulings are seen as the official interpretation of the Constitution and associated laws going forward. There's no such thing as legal cherry picking. A judge can't decide that this one guy is really bad so we'll just suspend his rights this one time.

Also, props to Laize for the accurate description of the American legal system. Innocent isn't a word we should be dealing with. Legal cases are all about whether or not the prosecution can prove the defendant is guilty, not whether or not the defendant actually is guilty. It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

And Atrea did a great job a few pages ago illustrating a point I was trying to make with the comparison to giving the cops a guided tour of the evidence hidden in your house. I liked that quite a bit, sorry I missed it when it was written.

[Ripster42]

Until they've been convicted by a jury of their peers under compelling evidence they are innocent of the crime. I know this is hard to accept in the age of Trial by Media but regardless of the crime of the accused they must have the same rights and protections from injustice as everyone else.

You should also be asking who's going to execute those found guilty of murder, and then who's going to execute those people ad nauseum. Execution is just as bad as murder. Vengeance has no place in justice.

[smelltheglove]

Here's the problem with your comparison, though. As much as I love personal liberties being upheld, it doesn't look good for the guy being accused in this case. He's been accused of having child pornography, and his drive is encrypted. That's akin to seeing someone lying down on the sidewalk, bleeding, and someone else running away from him. At this point you have enough reason to suspect the two actions are related. I think we all know this guy probably has CP on his computer, further reinforced by the fact that he's reluctant to decrypt his files. Civil liberties are great, but let's not be naive. There's a good chance he's hiding something. Why I maintain that this is a good thing that he's not being forced to decrypt it is because there's always the chance he's being wrongfully accused, or someone planted the evidence (I've read tons of stories about people purposely putting CP on someone's computer then calling the police). In this case, I wouldn't decrypt it either, even if I knew I had nothing to hide. I don't trust the police to not make something up. We all know how they like to nab people and claim our children are safe.

im not saying this dude is a good guy. the thing is that the argument of "if you have nothing to hide etc" is EXTREMELY general, and hyve is trying to use a specific to justify it. as a baseline mindset it is grotesquely overreaching and flat out dangerous. if the dude is a pedo id LOVE for him to go down, and go down HARD. im not willing to throw out everybody else's liberties to do it

[Deleted]

Not even close, people like this are no better then animals and should be treated as such. Pedos, rapists, murderers and any other crime like this that involves trauma or the taking of a life should be treated more severely.

If you commit one of these types of crimes you should lose all rights as a human being because to commit these types of acts means you have no care about taking away that persons right to a normal life, the right to live, the right grow up without losing yourself in needless thoughts of suicide and god knows what else the victims of these kind of things go through...

Personally I think they should bring back hanging here in the UK and put these kind of sick fucks to death, not send em to a soft jail where they do minimal time before coming out and starting again.

Not saying there shouldn't be hard facts before they throw the full weight of punishment against them but in cases like this the guy should be made to decrypt all the information and if found guilty then f**k him because if he's innocent then what's he trying to hide...

Lets pick apart your arguments piece by piece......

Not even close, people like this are no better then animals and should be treated as such.

People like what? This guy has been accused of holding child pornography. Until found guilty, he is nothing more than an accused.

Lets accuse YOU of holding child pornography shall we........."I accuse you of holding child pornography".

Now you are in the exact same position as this guy. You are an accused.

By your own logic, i should now treat you as an animal.

Pedos, rapists, murderers and any other crime like this that involves trauma or the taking of a life should be treated more severely.

The guy is not guilty until found guilty. As of this moment nobody knows if he is a paedophile or not. Therefore, at this moment in time, he should be treated humanely, JUST IN CASE he is innocent.

If you commit one of these types of crimes you should lose all rights as a human being because to commit these types of acts means you have no care about taking away that persons right to a normal life, the right to live, the right grow up without losing yourself in needless thoughts of suicide and god knows what else the victims of these kind of things go through...

Ok lets look at a scenario.


A 13 year old boy masterbates on webcam of his own free will and uploads it to facebook. Accidently, you look on his profile (lets say he is the son of a family friend), and you click on his video.

You are now guilty of holding child pornography.

According to your own logic, you should lose all your rights as a human being and you should be hanged for being a sick fuck.

Its entirely possible that something similar happened to this guy, and he doesn't want the contents of his hard drive known, because it will incriminate him EVEN THOUGH he is genuinely innocent.

Its possible.



I hope you learnt a good lesson here.


The lesson you should of learned is this -

Never make assumptions until you have solid evidence, because someone innocent, somewhere will get stoned and hanged.

[Poodles]

99% of the arguments in this thread are appeals to emotion, which is a logical fallacy.

Here's some fun links/facts to disarm anyone that says "you have nothing to hide."

- The average person breaks the law 260 times a year: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...new-study.html

- How about more and more laws making you a criminal for minor transgressions? http://reason.com/archives/2009/10/1...all-felons-now

- Civil Liberty Lesson #1: NEVER talk to police! NOTHING good can come of it because they're are legally allowed to lie and trip you up simply on if your story changes (which is completely normal given the way our memory works). Don't believe me? Watch these vids (2 speakers, first is an attorney and the second is a cop, and they both agree): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE