Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #41
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    The Frozen Wasteland
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by Lushious View Post
    People come to the forums ASKING for help, nobody is interested in someone randomely whispering you to do that or this.
    Yep, if I want help from a stranger, I'll ask for it. (Unless I'm in some kind of dire trouble, but being a little clunky in LFR isn't exactly like lying on the street bleeding.)

    If I'm healing with my safari hat on, and you whisper to me about it, and I don't know you, I'll just add you to my /ignore list.

    If you're a friend, that's different. Why don't I treat strangers like friends? Well, because they're not.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Is this another LFR hate thread?

    Well, it might sound very sad, but if Blizzard will be listening to all these threads, the game will simply die, that's it. If you think that reason of current dire problems in WoW is LFR, you are wrong on so many levels.
    The thread stems from a video that is stated to not be an LFR hate video. So that's a moot point.

  3. #43
    I don't have a problem with lfr making non-raiders experience the best content in the game (that was it's goal wasn't it). However LFR doesn't fulfill that. I have been running some lfr's with a newly joined friend so this is anectodal evidence. LFR makes you experience the scenery and the boss graphics. That is all. Anything else is stipped from lfr. And I know not how they would add that either. I honestly preferred running PuG's. It felt like I still needed to perform at some minimum level and couldn't tab out during fights.

  4. #44
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    The Frozen Wasteland
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    I don't have a problem with lfr making non-raiders experience the best content in the game (that was it's goal wasn't it). However LFR doesn't fulfill that. I have been running some lfr's with a newly joined friend so this is anectodal evidence. LFR makes you experience the scenery and the boss graphics. That is all. Anything else is stipped from lfr. And I know not how they would add that either. I honestly preferred running PuG's. It felt like I still needed to perform at some minimum level and couldn't tab out during fights.
    Just find something to do with your friend that you both enjoy.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    He's pretty much right. My guild, Natural Order is a retirement home for Death and Taxes, a couple old vodka people, and a bunch of other misc. hardcore vanilla and TBC raiders. We're the ones that still do 25m raiding and persist through change after change.

    New players do not ever seem to make it to even my 4/13h guild. If one ever applies, it's usually with an app of one-word answers, incomplete sentences, and no effort.

    When I run LFRs, usually for legendary quest drops, I try to whisper other mages to give them friendly tips. Usually they reply that I should shut up, I'm an elitist, blah blah blah. They see my ilvl and damage and write me off as some elite bad guy that is only flexing an epeen.

    In Dragon Soul LFR last expac, I was kicked from LFR multiple times for "not needing anything" - despite the fact that I was going just for fun and to test out different specs and talents. When I went to those LFRs, if I won items I would trade them to low performers that I could tell were trying.

    You're just not allowed to be a helpful good guy in this environment because you're written off before you can even attempt to help.
    Here is where I see part of the problem ... not the fact that you help ... the fact your guild remains exclusive. There are couple ways to rebuild the community. One of them is being part of a guild that builds it up.

    An example of what you and your guild could do, is actively recruit newer players and help guide them (without ruining the game for them; don't rush them to max level). Run regular alt run pugs. Make sure you bring enough to competently complete the instance, regardless of the riff raff you bring in. This has always been the best and least nefarious ways (instead of leeching from other guilds), to find great potential, to recruit and possibly form extra groups. Make sure your trade recruit isn't too exclusive ... because with your skill and fight knowledge, a lot of normal fights are going to come down to watching these pugs 'execute' mechanics and priorities ... and if the fights are new to them, you can judge their adaptability and learning curves.

    I half agree about the needing and redistribute in LFR ... what sucks is if you really were trying, and the self-appointed loot master gives it to someone else, especially if you had next best roll. There were definitely people getting loot who shouldn't have (hence the personal loot in MoP) ... warriors were needing on agility polearms off DW, afkers/auto-attackers were winning loot, people who intentionally died early, etc. It was a sad sign of how selfish the community is.

    This selfishness and the general downward spiral of the community as a whole, is the reason LFR is so bad. The problem isn't that half the raid can be afk, it is the problem that half the raid DOES afk or queue for a role they don't intend to fill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brodeo View Post
    That sounds like a cop-out. I legitimately want to hear a single response that doesnt put LFR in a vacuum. I've read a number of these threads and i've yet to hear one. The game did fine without LFR for years. I want you to tell me how it has improved the game as a whole. If the only answer is that you enjoy it and dont want it taken away, fair enough, i suppose.
    You also have to look at the degradation of raiding as a whole, before LFR, which means, not in a vacuum that only contains LFR. The major stepping stone that has caused a lot of what you see to the raiding community today came from shared lockouts, equal gear, then a small T12 and small and (for some) disappointing T13, and a loss of 1/6th of the playerbase. Shared lockouts and shared gear, losing a ton of subs to various reasons caused a lot of 25s to split into two 10s. It was easier to manage. When they had problems, they didn't go back to 25s, they disbanded.

    Now, let's add the decline in community attitude on top of that. I didn't notice gear being quite so much of an issue, until addons like gearscore became rampant. It took away the interaction and put it into a mouseover insta-rating. Before this really caught on, you'd have people invite you to a group, ask you to meet them at the dummies, and you'd have a discussion about how you played, why you played, and you'd show how executed your rotation/priority on the dummy, judging both their understanding of their class, and the ability to estimate the approximate damage you could expect them to push out.

    This communication and interaction was a key element we now rarely see. Not only did you see if someone's ability was above their RNG/gear ... but it encouraged the potential recruit to ask questions, especially if denied a raiding position/position in the guild (though I even know pugs that used the dummies).

    What we have now is, lazy recruiting, both in guilds and pugs. We have people far more likely to berate someone asking for help, than give them a few minutes to truly help. Sometimes the best response they get is 'look it up online' ... when not everyone learns well from walls of text or bars and graphs; some need a more personal touch.

    You can try to blame it all on LFR, but that is looking at WoW in a vacuum, ignoring everything else outside of LFR that has been eating away at both the raiding community, and the gaming community as a whole.


    If you are truly unhappy with the state of the game and raiding, complaining about LFR won't fix it, neither will the removal of LFR. Doing what you can to improve the community WILL. Be it you general helpfulness to random people; organizing parts of your guilds to take an active, positive role in your server community, helping people, teaching people, and generally making your community to be a great experience.

    To blame the fall solely on LFR is to be quite short-sighted and trying to simplify things to some boogeyman you can play whack-a-mole with. People did this with LFD as well ... but it isn't the in-game tools that we have available that is the problem, is the the tools behind the computer. It is the people only concerned about minimal effort vs greatest reward, no longer playing the game for the experience, but for personal gain. A lot of selfish, loot-whores, who think their time and attention is more precious than anyone else's ... and LFR is just the best example of the bad attitudes (like afking watching a movie while everyone else does the 'work' of the instance; don't want to participate, gtfo).


    What I think they could do, to have some incentive for normal raiding? Well, raiding with friends and enjoying the fights, for the most part, should be enough (not just killing the boss the first time, otherwise, why ever go back once you've killed it once on normal? game is shallow if one kill is all you are after ... the fights should be enjoyable).

    Using ToT as example: LFR no Lei Shen, Normal Lei Shen, Heroic Ra Den ... and continue having 1 boss missing in LFR, and 1 extra in heroic.

  6. #46
    Dreadlord Manabomb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Probably laying somewhere frozen and cold.
    Posts
    946
    My question is, is why do many people on these forums proclaim that this game is somehow better when the only way to see the content that (rough numbers inc) 60% of the sub base pays for, is to treat this game like a second job? I was there during vanilla and tbc. I ran two part time jobs, odd jobs and still managed to somehow raid while going to college. It was a dick, but personally I loved raiding then.

    Now I'm well into my career, busier than ever and have retired from the hardcore raiding demographic simply because it's entirely too taxing. But why on earth, from the standpoint of a company, would you want the majority of your cashflow to not see the content most of your money goes into? But more than that, it's not blizzard's fault for how the community became after they implemented dungeon finder and raid finder, it's entirely on the community itself abusing the system or simply being ignorant. And the potential benefits of not seeing 8+ million people leave the game compared to a "bad community" is an obvious business choice.

    Hell, I was enraged when I first read about the new raid difficulty, but then I got to thinking about how it does not effect me specifically in the slightest. This new raid will finally enforce normal modes to be balanced around normal raiders instead of "bads" or "ma and pa" guilds that want to see progression beyond raid finder. Or simply for the people that don't have the schedule to keep up with a guild, but still enjoy organized raiding (See t14 content runs via open raid).

    The majority of these accessibility changes made the game less of the grindy shit that it was 6 years ago. Where you spent 30+ hours a week getting the materials required for raiding and then spent maybe a third of that actually raiding. The rest of the accessibility changes are because blizzard wants all their subscribers to see the content at hand instead of handing all their nice work to the top 10%.
    Reduce- Iconic class abilities, complexity and meaningful rotations, usefulness of any one class in a raid group
    Reuse- A continent from 3 expansions ago, a story arch from 3 games ago, characters that would otherwise be dead
    Recycle- A beaten to death plot-line, the nostalgia goggles for TBC, bossfight mechanics that make patchwerk seem complex
    The three R's of Warlords of Draenor and that doesn't even mention flying, #savekarabor, blizzard store, tier to tier ilvl skips.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    But why on earth, from the standpoint of a company, would you want the majority of your cashflow to not see the content most of your money goes into?
    I think that most people understand the idea of LFR. The issue is that it doesn't fulfill that goal. The fact that it is SO easy that you don't have to care about mechanics at all, makes it so that the only part of the raid that LFRer's see, is the look of the raid + boss graphics. The "Raiding" part is left out. Also it replaced pugs, which some people actually enjoyed doing on alts - compared to the mindless grinding that LFR feels like.

    And I don't know what they should do about it. It's too integrated in the game by now and making it harder won't help either. People enter LFR with a different mindset, than they'd enter a pug.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    snip
    You're missing the point of the video my friend, like a lot of other people in this thread.

    Its not about denying people the content, that is unquestionably a bad business move. Its about denying it a little bit in order to make it more fun.

    Gating too hard might be bad, but making things SO INCREDIBLY ACCESSIBLE that you can see it all within 1-2 days of hitting 90 isn't much better. It lets you see it but in order to do so it waters down the whole experience to the point where you might as well not have.


  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by RavenGage View Post
    You're missing the point of the video my friend, like a lot of other people in this thread.

    Its not about denying people the content, that is unquestionably a bad business move. Its about denying it a little bit in order to make it more fun.

    Gating too hard might be bad, but making things SO INCREDIBLY ACCESSIBLE that you can see it all within 1-2 days of hitting 90 isn't much better. It lets you see it but in order to do so it waters down the whole experience to the point where you might as well not have.
    The funny thing is that you are denying more content with the curent system then you did with the previous one.

    Take WOTLK for example. One of the best instances made by blizz was ulduar. How ever once the worse instance made by blizzard, TOC came out, nobody ran ulduar anymore because only TOC was releavant.

    How is THAT a good business model? How is making everething else you designed up to a point irelevant considerd good?
    How is making people THINK they finished the game by defeating the last boss a good ideea? Those people unsubscribe and subscribe back at the next patch.


    In TBC all content was relevant. Even when doing sunwell, I was still runing Zull Aman on my alt and karazhan every now and then as well as puging ssc/tk on my Magtheridon server.
    Gruul was relevant even when runing blacktemple because the spine was so amazing.

    And in TBC you never felt like you finished the game. There was allways that NEW boss that you wanted to see and were excited about doing.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by veehro View Post
    The funny thing is that you are denying more content with the curent system then you did with the previous one.

    Take WOTLK for example. One of the best instances made by blizz was ulduar. How ever once the worse instance made by blizzard, TOC came out, nobody ran ulduar anymore because only TOC was releavant.

    How is THAT a good business model? How is making everething else you designed up to a point irelevant considerd good?
    How is making people THINK they finished the game by defeating the last boss a good ideea? Those people unsubscribe and subscribe back at the next patch.


    In TBC all content was relevant. Even when doing sunwell, I was still runing Zull Aman on my alt and karazhan every now and then as well as puging ssc/tk on my Magtheridon server.
    Gruul was relevant even when runing blacktemple because the spine was so amazing.

    And in TBC you never felt like you finished the game. There was allways that NEW boss that you wanted to see and were excited about doing.
    It has to do with how the players are stratified by skill/gear/time. As you pointed out, in the old Vanilla/TBC raid model, people were spread out progressing across the different tiers simultaneously (leveling, dungeons, small raids, old raids, etc.).

    Blizzard wanted to concentrate players into the latest tier and came up with the new system where people get boosted to the latest tier. This solved some gameplay problems and created new ones. Stratification became about the difficulties of the latest raid tier instead of the separate tiers themselves. Dungeons are set up to be point grinds for people to get into raids. The new system fits better with raids becoming vehicles of story delivery central to expansion-long story arcs.

    There were hints of the new system in TBC with badges, pvp epics, reduction of reputation requirements, and the removal of attunements. WotLK was the first iteration of the "everyone gets a boost to the newest tier" system with multiple difficulty levels (though very few). Cata went too far with the skipping of tiers, so they backed off a bit in MoP. Since they implemented the new system in WotLK, they found that there weren't enough "tiers of difficulty" (previously being T0, 20mans, T1, T2, T3, etc.), so they added LFR and now flex.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    It has to do with how the players are stratified by skill/gear/time. As you pointed out, in the old Vanilla/TBC raid model, people were spread out progressing across the different tiers simultaneously (leveling, dungeons, small raids, old raids, etc.).

    Blizzard wanted to concentrate players into the latest tier and came up with the new system where people get boosted to the latest tier. This solved some gameplay problems and created new ones. Stratification became about the difficulties of the latest raid tier instead of the separate tiers themselves. Dungeons are set up to be point grinds for people to get into raids. The new system fits better with raids becoming vehicles of story delivery central to expansion-long story arcs.

    There were hints of the new system in TBC with badges, pvp epics, reduction of reputation requirements, and the removal of attunements. WotLK was the first iteration of the "everyone gets a boost to the newest tier" system with multiple difficulty levels (though very few). Cata went too far with the skipping of tiers, so they backed off a bit in MoP. Since they implemented the new system in WotLK, they found that there weren't enough "tiers of difficulty" (previously being T0, 20mans, T1, T2, T3, etc.), so they added LFR and now flex.
    And how is this better? Before my raiding scheduel was extremly varied. I would clear ssc/tk on the day of reset, after that we would have 2 more days to clear MH, then we would make progress in black temple. On weekends, we would chill out and do zull aman or karazhan.

    The reward for beating a boss was NOT the loot, but it was the oportunity to see MORE content, a new boss.
    Nothing was MORE exciting and more epic then steping in mount hyjall for the very first time.
    I didn't care if my guild was not the first to be there, it was epic because i was playing with that guild since karazhan. I rememberd a group of people who could barely move out of the fire, and who, in time got all the way to t6 and were downing boses we only heard of in stories before.
    We didn't got to MH because blizzard released the instance, we've got there because we've worked together, comunicated and improved our gameplay.
    There was this huge epic feel that we got and no amount of hardmode could give you that, except maybe going for a world first.


    As a person who does not care abot loot, hardmodes are not that apealing to me. And since blizzard does not pump out content at the rate i cleared the normal modes, the game lost alot of apeal in my eyes. From a game that was endless and where there was allways something to strive for, it turned into a game similar to the monkey island episodes, where you just finish the episode and then wait for the new one to be released.

    And since everebody is doing the same content right now, the instances become boring rather fast. The scenary is the same, the trash is the same and the magic is just not there when you step inside a raid for the very first time.

  12. #52
    The Lightbringer
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Silvermoon City
    Posts
    3,632
    Quote Originally Posted by veehro View Post
    And how is this better? Before my raiding scheduel was extremly varied. I would clear ssc/tk on the day of reset, after that we would have 2 more days to clear MH, then we would make progress in black temple. On weekends, we would chill out and do zull aman or karazhan.
    So, you had a lot of time to raid. What about people who couldn't commit such hours?
    That was the main issue with BC - it was fun to raid 7/7 between SWP progress, BT, MH and ZA (plus an odd Kara here and there), but most players simply couldn't commit enough time for what is after all a game, not a second job.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  13. #53
    There are harder games out there if you want to play them. Demon Souls and Dark Souls are a good step up if you want to start playing harder games.
    /Zetsumei

  14. #54
    Pit Lord Asmodias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    2,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    When I run LFRs, usually for legendary quest drops, I try to whisper other mages to give them friendly tips. Usually they reply that I should shut up, I'm an elitist, blah blah blah. They see my ilvl and damage and write me off as some elite bad guy that is only flexing an epeen.
    While you may have good intentions at heart...you really are being an elitist. Unsolicited help (in the form of tips and tricks) makes the other guy think you are trying to tell them how to play. No one wants to be told "how to play". Now, if they came to you and asked... well, at that point... it's fair game.

    Let me break it down this way... It doesn't matter how much better you perform when compared to me. I have to learn how it's done on my own terms. If I can't figure it out, I will ask. I don't want someone who I haven't asked to tell me how it's done. I don't learn anything from that.

    I would suggest you do a little people watching. Take a moment to see the new generation of players in the game. Understand that not all of them are like the guild members you have. Allow them to learn on their terms.

    And I didn't want to go into this, but the statement is bugging me. Your bit about being kicked from LFR multiple times for "not needing anything". As I kept reading, the more it sounds like you were playing a "loot distributor". I would be surprised if this was an every once in a while thing as people don't tend to notice trades like this. Mainly because it's done in whisper. But it's okay. That is the past... and we have all moved forward from it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-08 at 04:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenGage View Post
    Its not about denying people the content, that is unquestionably a bad business move. Its about denying it a little bit in order to make it more fun.
    Define "a little bit". I find that term kind of subjective. Let me give you an example. Right now, Ra-Den is a Heroic only boss. To me, that is "a little bit" of denying. I believe you and I can agree that not very many people are going to see him while he is current... or even this expansion.

    What would you call "a little bit"? Please understand, I am not trying to attack you. I am rather curious as to what you would like to see if you had design control.


    Uber Casual | Avatar and Signature by Shyama

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    So, you had a lot of time to raid. What about people who couldn't commit such hours?
    That was the main issue with BC - it was fun to raid 7/7 between SWP progress, BT, MH and ZA (plus an odd Kara here and there), but most players simply couldn't commit enough time for what is after all a game, not a second job.
    I am sorry, I still don't follow you. You are trying to tell me what an awesome business model blizzard has discoverd.
    So before I payed 15 euros and had the ability to play on different content every single day of the week, if I choosed so.
    How ever now I play the same amount but i am limited in both content (as I can't do previous content) and i'm also unable to play 7 days a week due to the fact that once you clear a raid you have to wait for it to reset.
    Wow...great marketing value there!!


    And to answer your question, the only reason Iplayed that much was due to the fact of me being a guildmaster. It was my choice.
    I did have other people in the guild who only played 2 or 3 days a week and it was ok. I had rotations set up so that others would take their spots when they were not available. Sure they would get less dkp and it was a bit harder for them to get loot, but they never complained of not having fun or not beeing able to see content, thats just silly.

    Nobody was forced to atend any raid, and besides a few hardcore dedicated members, nobody actually showed up for ssc/tk/mh/bt AND sunwell. Usualy the trials came for the first tiers in order to get gear while the core raiders showed up for progress and bosses where they needed gear.

    Time was NEVER an issue in wow. You never had to play 7 days a week in order to clear content. If that was the case blizzard could of just removed consumables, gems , enchants and repair bills from the game and you would only have to log in for raiding.

    The problem how ever was SKILL. You did have to focus, know your class and comunicate with other people.

    I used to find it hilarious how some people cried that they have no time to play and couldn't progress, while having 10 lvl 70 alts on their account.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-09 at 12:10 AM ----------

    While you may have good intentions at heart...you really are being an elitist. Unsolicited help (in the form of tips and tricks) makes the other guy think you are trying to tell them how to play. No one wants to be told "how to play". Now, if they came to you and asked... well, at that point... it's fair game.

    Let me break it down this way... It doesn't matter how much better you perform when compared to me. I have to learn how it's done on my own terms. If I can't figure it out, I will ask. I don't want someone who I haven't asked to tell me how it's done. I don't learn anything from that.
    Well you don't really need to ask since you're quite usless. You can afk if you want and youd still kill the boss and feel good because this is what the game has changed to.
    You don't need to have a rotation or even know what you're doing because others would do it for you. You don't need to improve as a new player and the guy who made the video explained it pretty well.
    Also how about you look at a game that actualy requires some level of skill such as Dota2 or LoL and see how people act to other players who are crap. You either improve your game fast or the comunity trashes you till you learn how to play semi-decent...and they're not kind about it.

    I would suggest you do a little people watching. Take a moment to see the new generation of players in the game. Understand that not all of them are like the guild members you have. Allow them to learn on their terms.
    And what if he is carying them? I haven't played lfr much, but i do recall how anoying it was to see the loot going to the rogue who did less damage then the tank in voa, and not because he had no gear, but because he couldn't be arsed to do a simple rotation, or to stand out of fire and thus he died at the begining of the fight.
    Since when is it ok to become a burden on other people that now have to play better just to cary a burden.
    I remember people saying that in vanila 40 man raids were bad because people could afk. Well everebody knows people afk in lfr and why does no one care anymore? Heck it used to be a HUGE deal if you afk'ed in Bg's before.

    .
    Define "a little bit". I find that term kind of subjective. Let me give you an example. Right now, Ra-Den is a Heroic only boss. To me, that is "a little bit" of denying. I believe you and I can agree that not very many people are going to see him while he is current... or even this expansion.

    What would you call "a little bit"? Please understand, I am not trying to attack you. I am rather curious as to what you would like to see if you had design control.
    This is beyond retarded, im sorry, im not troling you but do you even THINK about what you're saying?! What do you mean DENYING CONTENT?
    Are you locking acounts out of raiding instances? Are you talking about making content exclusive for some guilds and not for others? Since when is dificulty=denying.

    You keep going on about casual this and casual that. Casual means a player who does not have time to play, not a player who is BAD.
    Time has nothing to do with progression. The only thing you need to find time for is to farm consumables, gold for repairs, enchants and sockets and thats it. But the way i see it, those are still in the game right now.

    Instead what is being nerfed is the damage the bosses do, the damage you recieve for standing in fire etc. You don't need to have more TIME to play in order to move out of a fire.
    You don't need to have time to play in order to keep up a proper rotation or to CC a mob.

    So yeah the ideea of "denying content" is just a silly excuse used by teribad players to have the game dumbed down to the point where even a child can see the last raid instance

  16. #56
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SC, USA
    Posts
    2,126
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    While you may have good intentions at heart...you really are being an elitist. Unsolicited help (in the form of tips and tricks) makes the other guy think you are trying to tell them how to play. No one wants to be told "how to play". Now, if they came to you and asked... well, at that point... it's fair game.

    Let me break it down this way... It doesn't matter how much better you perform when compared to me. I have to learn how it's done on my own terms. If I can't figure it out, I will ask. I don't want someone who I haven't asked to tell me how it's done. I don't learn anything from that.

    I would suggest you do a little people watching. Take a moment to see the new generation of players in the game. Understand that not all of them are like the guild members you have. Allow them to learn on their terms.

    And I didn't want to go into this, but the statement is bugging me. Your bit about being kicked from LFR multiple times for "not needing anything". As I kept reading, the more it sounds like you were playing a "loot distributor". I would be surprised if this was an every once in a while thing as people don't tend to notice trades like this. Mainly because it's done in whisper. But it's okay. That is the past... and we have all moved forward from it.
    That's the problem. You don't have to learn anything anymore.

    Back in 2005 I had to learn how to heal if I wanted to see Molten Core. There was an adjustment period, when I had to figure it out. The sink or swim atmosphere was perfectly balanced to allow those who wanted to swim an easy way to learn.

    Now you're given a life jacket whether you want it or not. The life jacket has a jet pack. The jet pack carries you home to safety.

    Nobody is learning how to swim anymore. Raiders consist almost entirely of a dying population of those of us who learned how to swim expansions ago.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    Define "a little bit". I find that term kind of subjective. Let me give you an example. Right now, Ra-Den is a Heroic only boss. To me, that is "a little bit" of denying. I believe you and I can agree that not very many people are going to see him while he is current... or even this expansion.

    What would you call "a little bit"? Please understand, I am not trying to attack you. I am rather curious as to what you would like to see if you had design control.
    Lol I can't define a little bit. Its a damn hard balance to strike. If it was easy they would have done it already, its probably why we now have 3 (soon to be 4) raid difficulties rather than trying to balance a 1-size-fits-all difficulty. =p

    But I still think LFR is too far along the "easy" path, to the point where even the people who raid that as their main content aren't getting their money's worth. But how to solve it? *shrug* I have some ideas, but like I said if it was easy to solve it would be done already. I actually like Flex raid as a much better idea than LFR and I wish they would have done that from the very beginning. But we'll see how it works out.

    You might make the point that LFR isn't really "harming" anyone. Even if it doesn't provide quality raid content and sense of achievement like a challenging raid will, it doesn't HURT either. But I think it does hurt a little bit, since its very existence cheapens the feeling of slaying the same boss on a difficulty that is challenging. I think LFR with its same tuning or flex raid with its flex tuning would do a FAR better job of providing content to casual players that is similar in feel and enjoyment as heroic raids are to hardcore players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsumei View Post
    There are harder games out there if you want to play them. Demon Souls and Dark Souls are a good step up if you want to start playing harder games.
    Heroic Mode Lei Shen is plenty hard enough as is, for the hardcore gamers. Its the masses of casual gamers which frankly make up the majority of WoW's population that have trouble seeing good raid content. LFR is made to supposedly fix this problem, it would just be better fixed if it could provide these casual gamers with the raiding experience without having to water it down so much.
    Last edited by RavenGage; 2013-06-09 at 03:13 AM.


  18. #58
    They need to reward lfr items based on performance....
    something like if u do <70k dps on single target.. u get 1/10th of the original loot chance. something on similar lines for healers. yes it can be sibjective from boss per boss basis.. or simply tone down everyone's ilvl in lfr to the min ilvl requirement then reward top 10 dps, top 4 heals with higher chance to win items and lower for remaining.. when everyone is at equal footing.. your performance is directly affecting your rewards.

    Simply put, alt tabbing and still getting the same chance to get rewards HAS TO GO.

  19. #59
    Oh, it was the same guy that talked about TBC and "they journey" as he called it. Didnt watch

    If this was 4chan I would sage & hide.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by devilminion View Post
    They need to reward lfr items based on performance....
    something like if u do <70k dps on single target.. u get 1/10th of the original loot chance. something on similar lines for healers. yes it can be sibjective from boss per boss basis.. or simply tone down everyone's ilvl in lfr to the min ilvl requirement then reward top 10 dps, top 4 heals with higher chance to win items and lower for remaining.. when everyone is at equal footing.. your performance is directly affecting your rewards.

    Simply put, alt tabbing and still getting the same chance to get rewards HAS TO GO.
    Why? Do you have any reasoning for why lower performance should be punished with a 90% drop in loot chance? Besides "I don't like it when bads get loot" which is... well... such a typically elitist and short sighted approach that plagues any discussions about LFR.

    I highly doubt anything like that will EVER be implemented for a variety of reasons, or that it would be good for the game if it was. I don't think you've really thought it through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somali View Post
    Oh, it was the same guy that talked about TBC and "they journey" as he called it. Didnt watch

    If this was 4chan I would sage & hide.
    Well I'm glad you're contributing to the discussion. I dunno what we would have done without you sharing with us that you didn't watch it. And no, this isn't 4chan. Such a shame isn't it?
    Last edited by RavenGage; 2013-06-09 at 06:10 AM.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •