marijuana Legal? or illegal?

[spelle]

the only valid argument in my opinion why it should be ilegal is it leads to more dangerous drugs, but i think it should be legal and people take responsibility for theyr own actions. Then again drugged people tend to hurt others

[crakerjack]

http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=...1994-45545-001
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10372796
http://www.samhsa.gov/data/NSDUH/2k1...011.htm#Fig7-2
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/v...ourceID=000884

Can you provide sources like me?

Unfortunately there are also peer review studies that show that people can develop a dependency on Cannabis. Also you've clearly misinterpreted what I've said and come up with a counter argument for which your conclusion was "Cannabis isn't addictive". It can be, it has been proven to be, but that's not my point.

If you were reading I said that not everyone can or will become addicted to it, but some people can and will. Also you've just proven my point that in society it is necessary to place it in either a legal or illegal context, when the truth is not everyone will handle the drug the same. Therefore classifying it in either category may not be the right way to handle it, but unfortunately that is how society works.

I'm not spreading misinformation, please stop saying that I am without proof.

PS for some anti-biasness (yes I like to make up words) I am an HD (high definition) university student who has a stable income, a decent amount of friends and may or may not smoke marijuana occasionally.

I hate it when people make this argument... in theory, yes people can become "addicted" to marijuana... the reason I put it in quotes is because it's not the same kind of addiction associated to other drugs or alcohol... When people talk about addiction and marijuana... it's only a mental addiction meaning you only convince yourself you need it... there's no physical withdraws like alcohol/cigarettes or harder drugs... those drugs can cause you to cramp up... vomit, have hot-flashes etc... unlike marijuana... the worse that'll happen is you'll feel down because you want a hit... but that all depends on the person. Weak willed individuals will give into that feeling... but normal people like me just go on with our lives or occupy our time differently instead of pondering how nice it would be to have a hit.

[Shiandra]

I've been of the opinion that drugs should all be legalized and regulated, it would cut a lot of the cashflow from the cartels and would bring back positive income to the country. Cigarettes are an addictive substance that kills too, but its legal and regulated, same with alcohol, so why not just make everything accessible and move on? If you legalize the stuff less people will do it cuz its 'forbidden' however those that do will just do so cuz they can, it would certainly cut down a bit on the people in our jails lol.

[Shennanigans]

So we should also ban alcohol because there's fools who abuse it? Should we ban fast food because morbidly obese people can't eat healthy? Should we ban cars because fools don't know how to go the speed limit? Should we ban guns because a few fools shoot up public places? Should we ban everything that is associated with fools? Like I stated earlier, there isn't a single legit opposing view to marijuana, thank you for providing my evidence.

---------- Post added 2013-06-05 at 07:48 PM ----------



You sir are the epitomy of ignorance. Please educate yourself before engaging in topics that you have no idea about... it typically causes threads to become derailed because people bring facts and you oppose it with nothing but crap. "turns ppl into complete morons" I think you're thinking of every other hard drug and alcohol... When do you ever see someone on marijuana freaking out in public and making a scene like someone who is on alcohol? When does marijuana ever induce violence? I've seen countless people become violent after getting drunk. Your argument is invalid.

I know as much as the next about smoking pot I did my share back in the day and if you haven't reached complete moron yet when smoking then your doing it wrong. Do you even inhale?

[Uvwaex]

I don't believe it should be legal. I've met way too many fools who smoke it and preach to me all of its "Economic benefits", horseshit. Using alcohol as an excuse is stupid as well. Just because one drug that is legal is in your opinion "worse" doesn't make it right to legalize another drugs. Two wrongs don't make a right, a lesson many don't learn despite their age.

There are plenty of idiots who smoke, and plenty who don't. The real question is both of proving causality of "less intelligence" as well as whether the severe legal repercussions are worth it.

[crakerjack]

the only valid argument in my opinion why it should be ilegal is it leads to more dangerous drugs, but i think it should be legal and people take responsibility for theyr own actions. Then again drugged people tend to hurt others

Please leave if you're going to say the gateway drug theory is true... that's the most illogical arguments known to man. It was created based on assumption and no facts at all. You want to know its flaws? Because alcohol isn't on the gateway drug theory list... it's a harder drug than marijuana... so why wouldn't someone who builds a tolerance to alcohol not want to move up to harder drugs and get that feeling of no control??? Try to avoid using this pitiful argument in the future, if you don't believe me, go search it... there's countless sources to back me up.

---------- Post added 2013-06-05 at 08:02 PM ----------

I know as much as the next about smoking pot I did my share back in the day and if you haven't reached complete moron yet when smoking then your doing it wrong. Do you even inhale?

What are you even arguing??? It's already fact that marijuana is a lot more potent than it was back in the 70's... If you act like a moron on marijuana, chances are you're either 15 or it's your first time. I workout high, bench press 285 lbs stoned out of my mind... I go to work high and out perform all the other workers... I go to social events blazed. It affects everyone differently... Just because I don't act like a young kid laughing my ass off and sounding retarded, doesn't mean I'm not doing it right. Hit me up when you try some shatter or full melt or some form of BHO oil... until then, don't try and discuss matters that surpass your experience.

[slackjawsix]

it does seem silly to keep illegal, all the time spent preventing people from growing and accessing it just is a waste. most pot smokers just chill inside and do nothing, i have never seen a violent pot smoker unless they are naturally jack asses. better things to do with our time then prevent people from smoking pot.

and the gateway theory is only true cause of the kids that try in like middle school are probably gonna be the druggies later in life its the drug itself that causes it to become the gateway drug its the persons personality

[smelltheglove]

Individual rights. Individual responsibility.

No-one has any business making it illegal in the first place. For that matter, there is no justification for the drinking age being 21 instead of 18.

100% with you on both counts. i do wish some of the pro-pot crowd would stop with the idiotic snake oil claims and "herp derp it's a plant not a drug" nonsense, they are only getting in the way tbh

[SkyBlueAri]

that all depends on the person

I understand that but I've just shown sources that show people can create a dependency on it and whilst it may not be as severe as other drugs its still an addiction. Also you say "normal people like [you]" but not everyone is like you...

Also when I say addicted I'm going by the APA standard of addiction which is similar to that of other drugs and alcohol, did you not read any of the links I linked? They're not just there for you to ignore.

PS I still don't see anyone linking me some professional (and legitimate) studies to back up all their points... Its all just opinions, whereas I'm backing my point of view with facts.

[Tastyfish]

Too many peoples lives have been ruined by the law due to it. It has to end.

[crakerjack]

I understand that but I've just shown sources that show people can create a dependency on it and whilst it may not be as severe as other drugs its still an addiction. Also you say "normal people like [you]" but not everyone is like you...

Also when I say addicted I'm going by the APA standard of addiction which is similar to that of other drugs and alcohol, did you not read any of the links I linked? They're not just there for you to ignore.

PS I still don't see anyone linking me some professional (and legitimate) studies to back up all their points... Its all just opinions, whereas I'm backing my point of view with facts.

I don't need to post sources... everything I say is paraphrased... I've gone to councils in salem, Oregon and have argued why marijuana should be legal... I supported measure 80 here and tried pushing for it. Trust me when I say i'm not a druggie, but a very very extreme marijuana activist.

[Deleted]

Drug apologists... always the same shit.

Individual rights. Individual responsibility.

No-one has any business making it illegal in the first place. For that matter, there is no justification for the drinking age being 21 instead of 18.

Bullshit. Short-sighted lies that drug apologists spread without even understanding how stupid they are. If they would, they wouldn't defend drugs...

Point: people being drunk or on drugs don't affect only themselves. Their altered behavior affects everyone around them. So it's in no ways an individual's personal problem. Understood? Or do you perhaps deny that?

I've never touched the stuff a day in my life, and I believe it should be legal. Alcohol is a much, much worse drug, in my opinion.

I can't believe how this dumbass brainfart comes up every time. The existence of worse drugs is no reason to legalize "lesser" drugs.

It should be legal for the sake of liberty, and at the same time all individuals should exercise their liberty in maintaining the social stigma against it. Don't hire druggies and don't trust druggies who refuse to even try to overcome their habits and weakness. Recreational drugs are the height of weakness as they are nothing more than the willful surrendering of power in the form of temporary and/or long term mental and/or physical capacity in exchange for no meaningful benefit.

I stand corrected. First intellectual pro-legalization argument I've seen. But even if druggies would continue to be treated as the despicable shit they are, I still wouldn't legalize it. The threshold for starting to use it stays at least a little higher for someone who still has enough moral spine to not to mess needlessly with the law.

Infracted: Keep your posts civil please.

[Mormolyce]

Unfortunately, "valid arguments" haven't ever been required for law. It's a "rational basis" test, not "intelligent basis".

Which effectively means "which way is the wind blowing?".

[SkyBlueAri]

I don't need to post sources... everything I say is paraphrased...

Which is why I don't trust you. What are you paraphrasing? So everything you're saying is just anecdotal? Pretty good example of why legalising marijuana is being slowed because people like you just say what you want without coming up with scientific proof. When you say you don't need sources it just makes me doubt the relevance of anything you're saying. I'm sorry but saying things by-the-way without presenting professional support is relatively useless.

The subject is not as clear cut as many people who are posting in this thread are making it out to be. That is the primary fault of this thread.
I have not committed myself to either point of view because I am not sure I fully understand the implications of either choice. Anyone who claims that they have all the answers in this thread may be slightly delusional.

Unsubscribing to this thread because I have work to do but please use the sources I linked near the bottom of page two if you want to continue having this discussion. They seemed to be very useful.

[Mormolyce]

Point: people being drunk or on drugs don't affect only themselves. Their altered behavior affects everyone around them. So it's in no ways an individual's personal problem. Understood? Or do you perhaps deny that?

You could say the same of alcohol. Drunk driving is responsible for 40% of all traffic deaths and motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of non-disease death in the United States. And yet it's legal.

[Solidito]

Never had it, open to it though. Smoking is much much worse for you than weed so i can't really see a suitable reason for having it illegal. It should be legal.

[Shennanigans]

You could say the same of alcohol. Drunk driving is responsible for 40% of all traffic deaths and motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of non-disease death in the United States. And yet it's legal.

Alcohol is very bad worse actually the world would be a better place without either.

[Definition]

I don't do it, and I probably never will but I don't see a problem with people that do - As long as they're responsible with it.

[rnbwtrout]

Is there even some kind of census to support your comment? We'd have to have pot legal in all states to be able to accurately compare pot and alcohol related deaths.

how many pot related accidents / family destructions do you hear about versus alcohol? believe me, tons of people are lighting it up (and not just your typical pothead, but very 'professional' people; don't ask how i know).

you may never have been around a pothead and an alcoholic, but i have and i can tell you with 100% assurance that the pothead functions 10x better at home and at work. the pothead comes home, smokes a bowl, chills, mellows out because pot doesn't make you pyscho. the alcoholic however, comes home drinks himself drunk/half-drunk, loses most social graces, argues/fights/hits his family and is uncontrollable. the next day, he wakes up with a hangover and goes to work in a terrible mood and starts the vicious cycle again.

[Deleted]

Personally I think it should be legal but there should still be a limit on how you can "legally" own. I been smoking it for years and to be honest it helps with my bipolar and insomnia, far better then any meds I was prescribed did. Usually on the meds I had problems sleeping which meant they wanted me to try low dose sleeping tablets but then they caused me occasional nausea and loss of appetite, the list goes on but when I just smoke, I'm fine.

Don't get me wrong, I've smoked heavily in the past but grew out of that phase very quickly, nowadays I can enjoy the occasional to relax and balance my mood. That said it's been proven in many "controversial" studies that marijuana has medicinal qualities, people going through cancer treatments are often given a quiet chat about it to help with the dizzy spells, nausea and other symptoms of the treatments and in most cases it helps a lot. Also it's been known to help with joint pain, stress and a whole host of other things and in all it's history no one has ever died from cannabis, yet hundreds if not thousands of lives are taken every year by alcohol related incidents.

The fact is while in some places it's legal to possess marijuana, a lot of places like the UK would want to be able to tax it and that's where the problem lies because they know the moment they tried coming up with some stupid figures after making it legal, the fact would remain it would still be cheaper to go a dealer, while in other places like Holland they have cafes where you can go, never having been there myself I couldn't tell you how the economy side of it works but there's a big difference around the world in different countries on how this would be looked at.

America has started to legalize it in certain states and has found a positive effect to it in terms of certain crimes which usually had a high rate have now started to decline dramatically and the reason being is those who were getting arrested for said crimes no longer feel the need to buy a baggy in a back ally or have to commit some offense in order to obtain it. But then as I said here in the UK the government would want to add the usual tax and vat to the price tag and as a dealer over here would only have retail competition his market would expand in the sense that he could improve the quantity of product for his prices without adding along the taxation so financially it'd still be better to buy from the guy on the street rather then off a shelf.

But there's the rub, say here in the UK it was made legal and purchasable, no doubt the product in the shop would be refined unlike it's counter part of the street product and so you would naturally lose some of the qualities in which you smoke for i.e the THC count as well as the pure and hybrid strains that have come up over the years. Now the government would obviously start with importing while they spend millions of the tax payers money in setting up the grow businesses etc meaning everything here would go up in price to make up the difference just as it did with the stupid Olympics and world cup stuff.

So when all said and done and the farms are up and running, the products are now available over the counter, it has it's nice shiny packaging etc, you take your selection to the counter and your usual £20 bag now has a nice 17.5-20% tax and vat added but that's not to say the price is going to A. Make the quality you're used to, B. Weigh the same as what you were originally buying and C. When all is said and done, how often can you go back depending on your smoking habits.

Personally I spend £20 a week for X amount of weight (not detailing here as this thread may begin to wander) but the fact remains for me, I'd rather go see my regular guy who sorts me out knowing full well he's gonna make sure he keeps his customers happy with better product and size for your money, then buy it legally over the counter and no doubt as with most things here in the UK, have to sign some stupid register.

But I know people, quite a few of my friends even, who smoke anything from half an ounce to just over an ounce a week so now you're talking stupid money on a regular basis especially when you break it down in to it's different forms: Weed (Cheap looking crap that's usually damp and smells home grown), Skunk (Usually fluffy in appearance and usually is associated with the names lemon or cheese), Hemp (Ropey, usually comes in pieces rather then bud form), Resin (Oil or can be like wax), Pollen (Really clean smoke, no harsh burning etc), Hash (Different kinds about, slate which is brittle and dusty, soap which is usually the cleaner of the two although often founds with bits of plastic it, also can lead to hot rock burns), Squidgy (A bit like semi hard play dough), Tai Stick, etc all of which come at a different price and of course can vary in weight depending on who you're getting it from at the time and what you're buying.

It's all a bit of a double edged sword really, on the one hand it would be great to legalize it world wide because it would actually cut down on arrest times which could of meant better use of man power in other fields of police work, lets face it, many of us who smoke have had our collars felt over the years and 9 times out of 10 just got a friendly warning to "Not be so stupid as to get caught with it next time" rofl, in other places it's meant a fine or worse depending on the country and the copper who caught you and how much you had on you (although to be fair if you're stupid enough to walk around with anything more then an ounce, you're asking for to be caught).

I'd definitely like to read some of the minutes that have no doubt been taken in the debates of this around the different places in the world to see how exactly these countries including my own have pro actively looked at the matter and what they're possible plans could be, seeing as I, myself would be a consumer in that market but as with most things you hear about it being spoken of and then next time you hear anything, it's either legal or remains illegal.

It wasn't that long ago here in the UK it got recategorized to a lower class drug, crime in certain areas dropped but the problem was, people then began to take liberties in that, they walked around smoking a joint or sat in a park and flaunted it.

Now here's where Amsterdam's cafes would be a good idea, if people want to smoke while they're out they could visit said cafe and be off the street with it or buy it and enjoy in their own home but because they acted in this manner the drug was categorized back to it's original allocation and now it's slightly more illegal to own it again hence why my first statement, yes I feel it should be legal but there should also be guide lines written as well that says you may own X amount at any one time and you can only have it on you going from point A to point B but if you stop somewhere along the way or just because you decide you're going out for the day so you'll roll a couple to smoke while you're out, then you should be treated accordingly for it.

Well that's just my opinion on the matter