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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    175k aoe dps unrealisitc on 25H Horridon for progression?

    Having a discussion with my Guild leader tonight , were working on heroic horridon , getting him to door 4 consistently after only 11 tries...

    however adds are going down slow still 3-4 adds up in between doors typically ..

    anyways the Gm is saying that every dps needs to be doing 175k aoe dps on the adds or we aren't doing it right.

    My argument to him is the way that Ret aoe works with the small range on DS that theres no way i will pull 175k unless the adds are all literally stacked on top of each other
    , the best i can seem to pull is about 130-135k with 529Ilvl and no heroic weapon
    am i in the right dps range? or is he right in beliving that we all should be doing 175k aoe dps on this guy?

  2. #2
    High Overlord Berianther's Avatar
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    Your raid leader is bad. Ret should not be concerned with aoeing on this fight. Either put them tunneling the boss or on the 3 big elites on each door.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Berianther View Post
    Your raid leader is bad. Ret should not be concerned with aoeing on this fight. Either put them tunneling the boss or on the 3 big elites on each door.
    Beri is correct .......your dps is better spent somewhere else then on Aoe....leave that to shamans and locks

  4. #4
    Pit Lord Radio's Avatar
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    AoE DPS in this fight should only come from passive cleaves or classes that just do amazingly well at it.

    Passive cleave: love and cherish
    Intentional cleave: if passive from the raid isn't enough and if it doesn't conflict with single target too much
    Full blown AoE: only for the best classes at it and only if small add living time is just not cutting it

    On 10 man heroic we assign our ret to interrupts and single targeting stadium adds on doors 1-3, flame casters on 4. AoE DPS is better left to classes like our ele shaman.

  5. #5
    Blademaster Filfa's Avatar
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    My Guild master has put myself and himself (Enhance sham) on the boss since our early progression as our AoE is horrible compared to other classes.

    My role as a ret in this fight is:
    Gate 1 - Tunnel Boss
    Gate 2 - Kill Venom Priests (only) then get back on boss (Cleanse raid when possible)
    Gate 3 - Tunnel Boss (Cleanse raid when possible)
    Gate 4 - Kill 2x Warbear, 2x Shaman then get back on boss until Jalak comes out.

    Here's my last few weeks kill if you want to have a look / show your raid lead.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4725&e=5441
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2805&e=3480

    The fight isn't about AoE, it's about killing priority adds asap.
    Last edited by Filfa; 2013-06-06 at 04:59 AM.

  6. #6
    on last door you need to single target and not aoe...Beast Shaman really need to down fast.

  7. #7
    Trying to aoe made us always wipe at the boss.
    As said above: focus on the right things: dinomancer (>50%) >> 3 big adds. The first big add should always die before the next 2 spawn. Use some nice passive cleaves and thats it. And put ranges onto the flamecasters, not melees.

  8. #8
    Do you have any logs we could look at or a raid comp you could post? Generally unless you`re an ele shaman or warlock you`ll want to be on the 3 big adds. Still, outside of the third door the little adds can usually be grouped up with the big adds for incidental aoe.

    Some logs or the classes you have available would definitely help to give more specific advice.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    OK i got some logs , we do run 2 rets . but as i'm the better of the 2 rets 95% of the time they allow the other one to tunnel the boss and are relying on me making sure that the adds are dying
    anyways here's the 2 logs
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-5d1pk4mkpm8mc51f/
    and
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jhnkg97imdhlftbc/

    Honestly i think the problem is people are just doing too much aoe and not trying to burn the appropriate adds asap...i know that's what i was doing , when we try tonight I'm going to just single target , sure i may do less overall dps.. but it may make the difference..here's hoping

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ZABANNITH View Post
    OK i got some logs , we do run 2 rets . but as i'm the better of the 2 rets 95% of the time they allow the other one to tunnel the boss and are relying on me making sure that the adds are dying
    anyways here's the 2 logs
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-5d1pk4mkpm8mc51f/
    and
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jhnkg97imdhlftbc/

    Honestly i think the problem is people are just doing too much aoe and not trying to burn the appropriate adds asap...i know that's what i was doing , when we try tonight I'm going to just single target , sure i may do less overall dps.. but it may make the difference..here's hoping
    getting the right adds down fast is MUCH more important than killing all the adds slower.

    Your warlock used very few havoc spells. you should be able to get in at least 1 every 30 seconds. he got in 15.

    you got a horrible shadowpriest, frost mage, fire mage and boomkin.

    your shaman, rogue, DK, hunters and warlocks should be AoEing and/or cleaving. your mages, shadow priests and boomkin should be multidotting. everyone else should be focusing on the primary kill target (dinomancer>stadium add> little adds).
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  11. #11
    Your raid leader is wrong. Its that simple.

    You should single target the beasts and shamans down, any extra AoE that you can put up is just icing on the cake.

    I dont see how he gets the 175k dps number though. Does he want all of the adds dead like 20 seconds before wargod comes down? Thats not needed at all. Sometimes if we are doing poorly with the setup we can still have a shaman up when wargod comes down.

    As others have said, focus on single target and do cleave damage if it means you will do more damage overall to the correct adds.

  12. #12
    Your most efficient approach should be either single targeting the boss or stadium adds and flame casters (beast shaman, venom priests), while using DS when you will hit a least one additional target. Otherwise kill priority adds asap and let true AOE/multidotters handle the non-elite trash adds.

  13. #13
    Don't try to be something you're not. Ret is not an AOE class. AT ALL. Go HAM on the important targets, since ST burst is what we're about, and let the multi-dotters (boom, lock, spriest) and passive cleavers (ele, DK, etc) do what they're good at. You'll see much better results.

    And if you get any flak, tell your raid leader the internet says he's wrong. Point him our way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  14. #14
    I havent done him on 25man so cant say how big a issue the boss hp is, but i would ignore the commets that tells you to tunnel boss, i do agree ret aoe is bad and you sould not aoe adds, but you sould kill adds if adds are your problem, tunneling boss wont help you kill adds faster

  15. #15
    We did it on 25h about 2 months ago.

    Our RL is a yeller and the only thing he yelled about was "NO AOE. NO TUNNELING BOSS" Just dps big named adds and interrupt. Even being a balance druid I don't dot everything because only big dudes need to die.

    That being said your raid dps is low overall. This week we carried a friend in blues who did 130k. Everyone else was over 200k, and me and our ret did 340k ish.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=1439&e=1997

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 02:22 AM ----------

    Also 9 dps under 90% activity? balance druid spamming rejuv, 6 healers.... all this bad news

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Eshua View Post
    We did it on 25h about 2 months ago.

    Our RL is a yeller and the only thing he yelled about was "NO AOE. NO TUNNELING BOSS" Just dps big named adds and interrupt. Even being a balance druid I don't dot everything because only big dudes need to die.

    That being said your raid dps is low overall. This week we carried a friend in blues who did 130k. Everyone else was over 200k, and me and our ret did 340k ish.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=1439&e=1997

    Your guild also has 7 average ilvls on theirs and 7 more bosses down. I don't really see how comparing the two, or telling them how much damage you did while spamming starsurge on the boss, is particularly helpful. Like people said, target down Venom Infusions/Venomancers, Frozen Warlords, and the Flame-Casters and War-Beasts, otherwise chill on the boss. Not all classes are created equally

  17. #17
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Ret prio for 25m:
    First gate - Dinomancer > wastewalker > other adds = Horridon.
    Second gate - Dinomancer > Effusions > venom priests > other adds = stunning the charging adds > Horridon
    Third gate - Dinomancer > frozen warlord = cleanse raid > Horridon
    Fourth gate - Dinomancer > interrupt + kill fire casters / interrupt + kill shamans > Horridon
    Last phase - Don't fail to dino > War God (use cds) > Don't fail dino > Horridon

    Horridon is an add controll fight, best way to get shit done is to turn the dinomancer asap and then clicking orb, only people who should be on Horridon before the last phase is the tank(s) and multidotters, the rest should try and dps Horridon when everything else is down and not otherwise.

    Your GM / raidleader got it backwards, also for ret you can cleave with 4+ targets within 8 yards aoe but nobody should cleave with Dinomancer up, if they are; yell at them!
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  18. #18
    Separate question, we are attempting heroic horridon on my alt run this week and I am wondering if there are any tricks to keeping the fixating dino at a distance in the final phase. My main is a DK so its trivial for me there; is ret dependent upon targeting the add with judgment/exo or is there some passive way to keep it at range? Or do you just end up strafing around/through the boss to maintain distance?

  19. #19
    I wouldn't say 175k Aoe dps is impossible but probably not relevant to success. Like people have already said, Ret is more about single target burst. So killing the right adds at the right time is more important than your Aoe dps overall.

    It might also be better for other people in your group to focus the priority adds down faster rather than all out Aoe dps.

  20. #20
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    Separate question, we are attempting heroic horridon on my alt run this week and I am wondering if there are any tricks to keeping the fixating dino at a distance in the final phase. My main is a DK so its trivial for me there; is ret dependent upon targeting the add with judgment/exo or is there some passive way to keep it at range? Or do you just end up strafing around/through the boss to maintain distance?
    judgement is your only way to keep it away apart from exorcism which you should have glyphed. But the nice thing is that the exorcism glyph (makes it aoe around the target) is that if you manage to put the dinosaur under Horridon the glyph damage will knock it back aswell, the dinosaur is always knocked back from you regardless of which direction the damage it took came from. I suggest you save bubble for times you need to move with charge as that can get a bit iffy but other than that it's not terribly hard.
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

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