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  1. #61
    Sad, at first glance I thought it was a pretty sweet bonus but comparing it to the other healers' bonuses, this tier is again completely mediocre. It's only the first data mining of ptr, so hopefully it changes. But they never changed this tiers bonus (which is pretty shitty too) so I don't have very high hopes for them thinking up better holy paladin tier bonuses.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineux View Post
    Sad, at first glance I thought it was a pretty sweet bonus but comparing it to the other healers' bonuses, this tier is again completely mediocre. It's only the first data mining of ptr, so hopefully it changes. But they never changed this tiers bonus (which is pretty shitty too) so I don't have very high hopes for them thinking up better holy paladin tier bonuses.
    Not true. The Holy set bonuses are equally shit to quite a few of the other healer's set bonuses. The Mistweaver bonuses are a dick slap in the face, especially since the worst stat for us is Mastery. My orbs do like 6% of my overall healing so a 20% increase to those via an absorb would be a whopping 1.2% increase to my total healing, and that's ONLY if those absorbs get used before they expire, which they probably won't.

  3. #63

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    Not true. The Holy set bonuses are equally shit to quite a few of the other healer's set bonuses. The Mistweaver bonuses are a dick slap in the face, especially since the worst stat for us is Mastery. My orbs do like 6% of my overall healing so a 20% increase to those via an absorb would be a whopping 1.2% increase to my total healing, and that's ONLY if those absorbs get used before they expire, which they probably won't.
    At least your 4 piece is better. But I'd rather not derail the thread and discuss mistweaver bonuses in a Holy Pally T16 tier sets thread.

  5. #65
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    Not true. The Holy set bonuses are equally shit to quite a few of the other healer's set bonuses. The Mistweaver bonuses are a dick slap in the face, especially since the worst stat for us is Mastery. My orbs do like 6% of my overall healing so a 20% increase to those via an absorb would be a whopping 1.2% increase to my total healing, and that's ONLY if those absorbs get used before they expire, which they probably won't.
    How much overhealing do your orbs do? You can't apply that absorb bonus the same as a normal heal throughput bonus. The absorb is far less likely to overheal and the strength of the absorb will include the amount your mastery overheals. The absorb will be a decent increase, a lot more than your estimated 1.2% simply because of absorb mechanics. Your set bonuses are better than ours. This tier and if it stays the same next tier as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineux View Post
    At least your 4 piece is better. But I'd rather not derail the thread and discuss mistweaver bonuses in a Holy Pally T16 tier sets thread.
    Monks love to derail our threads.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-06-12 at 06:13 PM.

  6. #66
    As much as everyone thinks Teir 16 bonus's are "bad" or "mediocre" at best I would disagree.

    Item - Paladin T16 Holy 4P Bonus (New) Reduces the cooldown of Divine Favor by 45 sec. While Divine Favor is active, Mastery is increased by 1,500.
    This bonus if used properly especially with HA can actually be amazing during burst healing phases and also increases our bubble, i know 1500 does not seem like much but by the time teir 16 is out most of us will probably be sitting close to 40% mastery

    As for our two set there is nothing to complain about its a straight up 10% buff to Divine light Holy Light and Holy Radiance when infusion of light proc's which is pretty awesome if you ask me. If Holy radiance was not included yes i would agree it would suck but since it includes holy radiance which also provides holy power it just an amazing bonus if you ask me.

    All in all im quite happy with the Teir 16 Holy and am excited to play it on the PTR. Also these are the first notes so nothing is set in stone and things will change

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    Not true. The Holy set bonuses are equally shit to quite a few of the other healer's set bonuses. The Mistweaver bonuses are a dick slap in the face, especially since the worst stat for us is Mastery. My orbs do like 6% of my overall healing so a 20% increase to those via an absorb would be a whopping 1.2% increase to my total healing, and that's ONLY if those absorbs get used before they expire, which they probably won't.
    Sorry for this Paladins. A Monk who thinks our set bonuses are bad. I'm truly sorry. XD

  8. #68
    Stood in the Fire Kyuuseishu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agomba View Post
    As much as everyone thinks Teir 16 bonus's are "bad" or "mediocre" at best I would disagree.

    Item - Paladin T16 Holy 4P Bonus (New) Reduces the cooldown of Divine Favor by 45 sec. While Divine Favor is active, Mastery is increased by 1,500.
    This bonus if used properly especially with HA can actually be amazing during burst healing phases and also increases our bubble, i know 1500 does not seem like much but by the time teir 16 is out most of us will probably be sitting close to 40% mastery

    As for our two set there is nothing to complain about its a straight up 10% buff to Divine light Holy Light and Holy Radiance when infusion of light proc's which is pretty awesome if you ask me. If Holy radiance was not included yes i would agree it would suck but since it includes holy radiance which also provides holy power it just an amazing bonus if you ask me.

    All in all im quite happy with the Teir 16 Holy and am excited to play it on the PTR. Also these are the first notes so nothing is set in stone and things will change
    The point people make is that DA under the 4 set doesn't align with AW anymore, nor does it line up with HA, so if you try to use it with HA, the 2nd time around you can't always wait around for 15 seconds so its time reduction is less than satisfactory, also the 1500 mastery is tiny compared to say the priests which is 10% haste and 3500 mastery.

    Chances are, that 10% is going to be overheal anyway. Trying to base it as a straight up 10% buff is bad logic since it depends on the amount you crit with holy shock and whether or not that 10% is going to count for anything. Compared to quite a few other of the set bonuses, the ones we have are quite mediocre.

  9. #69
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agomba View Post
    As much as everyone thinks Teir 16 bonus's are "bad" or "mediocre" at best I would disagree.

    Item - Paladin T16 Holy 4P Bonus (New) Reduces the cooldown of Divine Favor by 45 sec. While Divine Favor is active, Mastery is increased by 1,500.
    This bonus if used properly especially with HA can actually be amazing during burst healing phases and also increases our bubble, i know 1500 does not seem like much but by the time teir 16 is out most of us will probably be sitting close to 40% mastery

    As for our two set there is nothing to complain about its a straight up 10% buff to Divine light Holy Light and Holy Radiance when infusion of light proc's which is pretty awesome if you ask me. If Holy radiance was not included yes i would agree it would suck but since it includes holy radiance which also provides holy power it just an amazing bonus if you ask me.

    All in all im quite happy with the Teir 16 Holy and am excited to play it on the PTR. Also these are the first notes so nothing is set in stone and things will change
    Depending on the stat allocation on the tier and offpieces. We could be giving up that much mastery to get the 4 set as the temporary bonus gives us. If it was this tier we would have to. I am assuming the datamined tier gear is placers because they have the exact same stat allocation (and names) as tier 15 and I hope that is not the case. Other than that no it really is underwhelming, 1500 mastery is too low and they need to round down the Divine Favor cooldown(make it 1minute off not 45 seconds) for it to even be close to decent.

  10. #70
    over healing for a us is not a bad thing, i dont really understand that argument when we benefit from illuminated healing.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by agomba View Post
    As much as everyone thinks Teir 16 bonus's are "bad" or "mediocre" at best I would disagree.

    Item - Paladin T16 Holy 4P Bonus (New) Reduces the cooldown of Divine Favor by 45 sec. While Divine Favor is active, Mastery is increased by 1,500.
    This bonus if used properly especially with HA can actually be amazing during burst healing phases and also increases our bubble, i know 1500 does not seem like much but by the time teir 16 is out most of us will probably be sitting close to 40% mastery

    As for our two set there is nothing to complain about its a straight up 10% buff to Divine light Holy Light and Holy Radiance when infusion of light proc's which is pretty awesome if you ask me. If Holy radiance was not included yes i would agree it would suck but since it includes holy radiance which also provides holy power it just an amazing bonus if you ask me.

    All in all im quite happy with the Teir 16 Holy and am excited to play it on the PTR. Also these are the first notes so nothing is set in stone and things will change
    Holy Radiance is arround 13% of a persons healing including the illuminated healing and about every 1/4 holy radiances will be infusion of light procs, that means the 2 set is a 1.5% increase in healing.

    As for the 4 set, Divine Favor is usually way better when cast together with Avenging Wrath than together with Holy Avenger and youd be losing out on mastery by using 4 pieces of tier.

    Im sorry but I just dont see how you can be happy with our T16.

  12. #72
    Stood in the Fire Kyuuseishu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agomba View Post
    over healing for a us is not a bad thing, i dont really understand that argument when we benefit from illuminated healing.
    It's not a good thing either, sure we can still do some "healing" when everyone is full, but its still something you want to avoid.

  13. #73
    Also i dont really buy your argument of the DF not lining up with HA if you really need that then i would question your healing style. I agree it would be better to have them both on the same CD but it is not a gamebreaker. We are really powerful healers as it is and im sure we will be fine in the next teir the 1500 mastery is just made to sweeten the deal if you can have both of our off pieces make up even the 1500 mastery which would most likely be possible you would still have to make up for the CD on DF with off set pieces and im not sure that it would be possible. I know the off set pieces are not out yet but i highly doubt that people will be taking the off set pieces unless they are highly stacked with mastery and socket's

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 03:09 PM ----------

    Illuminated healing "pre preemptive" healing imo

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by agomba View Post
    Also i dont really buy your argument of the DF not lining up with HA if you really need that then i would question your healing style. I agree it would be better to have them both on the same CD but it is not a gamebreaker. We are really powerful healers as it is and im sure we will be fine in the next teir the 1500 mastery is just made to sweeten the deal if you can have both of our off pieces make up even the 1500 mastery which would most likely be possible you would still have to make up for the CD on DF with off set pieces and im not sure that it would be possible. I know the off set pieces are not out yet but i highly doubt that people will be taking the off set pieces unless they are highly stacked with mastery and socket's[COLOR="red"]
    You do realize that that it is 1500 mastery with a 15% uptime right? Its worse than some shit trinket proc would be and it it not worth losing a single mastery item for.

  15. #75
    Also i dont really buy your argument of the DF not lining up with HA if you really need that then i would question your healing style. I agree it would be better to have them both on the same CD but it is not a gamebreaker. We are really powerful healers as it is and im sure we will be fine in the next teir the 1500 mastery is just made to sweeten the deal if you can have both of our off pieces make up even the 1500 mastery which would most likely be possible you would still have to make up for the CD on DF with off set pieces and im not sure that it would be possible. I know the off set pieces are not out yet but i highly doubt that people will be taking the off set pieces unless they are highly stacked with mastery and socket's
    It just makes our CD usage incredibly clunky, which is bullshit because this entire expansion they've been streamlining all of rets CDs and even now for ret they have 3 minute Guardian.

    HA: 2 minute CD
    DF: 2:15 second CD
    AW: 3 minute CD
    Guardian: 5 minute CD

    At least with DF (without set bonus) and AW, you have 2 CDs that when used together are very powerful whose CDs line up perfectly. If you used the set bonus, none of your CDs would line up together. It just makes it so awkward and clunky to use, especially if you're someone who likes to use them at the same time. It would make 1000x more sense if it was an entire minute off, because then it would line up with HA which would be better, but I guess they didn't put much thought into it.

    I'd rather get 1500 static mastery from off set pieces than 1500 mastery every 2:15 with set pieces that don't have mastery on them.
    Last edited by Lumineux; 2013-06-12 at 07:57 PM.

  16. #76
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agomba View Post
    Also i dont really buy your argument of the DF not lining up with HA if you really need that then i would question your healing style. I agree it would be better to have them both on the same CD but it is not a gamebreaker. We are really powerful healers as it is and im sure we will be fine in the next teir the 1500 mastery is just made to sweeten the deal if you can have both of our off pieces make up even the 1500 mastery which would most likely be possible you would still have to make up for the CD on DF with off set pieces and im not sure that it would be possible. I know the off set pieces are not out yet but i highly doubt that people will be taking the off set pieces unless they are highly stacked with mastery and socket's

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 03:09 PM ----------

    Illuminated healing "pre preemptive" healing imo
    Really powerful healers that are 2nd to last in throughput on heroic 25m? Yea ok.

    The set bonuses are crap and not worth the likely cost of mastery we will have to take to get the tier.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Really powerful healers that are 2nd to last in throughput on heroic 25m? Yea ok.

    The set bonuses are crap and not worth the likely cost of mastery we will have to take to get the tier.
    I think the biggest nerf to Paladins is the dominant nature of Disc Priests on absorb healing. PW:S is pretty damn stupid at the moment IMO.

  18. #78
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    I think the biggest nerf to Paladins is the dominant nature of Disc Priests on absorb healing. PW:S is pretty damn stupid at the moment IMO.
    No I think the buff to healer cooldowns had a much bigger impact.

    Yea PW:S is pretty powerful now and as already said in the thread most likely every disc priest who gets their 4p will likely use spirit shell spam PW:S and/or atonement rather than actually use spirit shell.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Really powerful healers that are 2nd to last in throughput on heroic 25m? Yea ok.
    You cant use raidbots and say Holy is shit. Meter whoring is not what matters but I am sure everyone understands that. Holy paladins are still pretty strong and everyone who says they aren't either does not know how to adapt or has no clue to begin with. I raid 25 heroic(just 11/13) and dont have the best gear but I constantly do very well on most fights.

  20. #80
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tungzten View Post
    You cant use raidbots and say Holy is shit. Meter whoring is not what matters but I am sure everyone understands that. Holy paladins are still pretty strong and everyone who says they aren't either does not know how to adapt or has no clue to begin with. I raid 25 heroic(just 11/13) and dont have the best gear but I constantly do very well on most fights.

    Set raid bots to all parses. There goes that "Meter Whore" argument. Just because you play with healers who don't play their class to the best of their abilities doesn't mean paladins aren't behind. I am at the same progression as you and do well, I still can see we have issues though and aren't as strong as people make us out to be(usually the people crying that our mastery is "nullifying" their heals).
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-06-12 at 08:54 PM.

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