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  1. #81
    again parses dont tell the story. Especially in 25 you dont play for yourself and we do bring some things to the raid other classes dont have. Sure a CD like tranq etc looks good on meters but doesnt help if ppl get killed by Interrupting jolts or the fire thing from iron qon.

  2. #82
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Really? Where did I say I don't raid 25m heroic? Please quote me.

    Devo isn't as strong as you are making it out to be and at this point you should be living through Interrupting Jolts and everything in Iron Qon without it. The only one in this thread who raided at during a point where you needed a cooldown like devo for Interrupting Jolt was Aladya. Plus...every other paladin spec brings the exact same devo aura. But seriously, that is off topic and should go in another thread. So you want to put more words into my mouth and argue?
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-06-12 at 09:07 PM.

  3. #83
    I just said looking at raidbots for comparison which healer specc is strongest is bs. But back to topic. I bet there are going to be changes to most set boni. Right now they are marginal and depending on stats it may be ok to switch to other items and just go for 2p.

  4. #84
    Our 2pc is probably worth less than our 4pc but just like this tier we'll probably end up with it due to itemization not because it's actually good.

    The 45 sec. cooldown reduction is pretty mediocre since to make use of it will mean we have to take HA (not that we shouldn't anyway) and use it 15 seconds late every time.

    I think as a class we still have earned our raid spots but with the buffs everyone else is getting and the patch notes we haven't seen yet that will undoubtedly impact EF and probably our mastery again I'm a little worried for the next tier.
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  5. #85
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    Our 2pc is probably worth less than our 4pc but just like this tier we'll probably end up with it due to itemization not because it's actually good.

    The 45 sec. cooldown reduction is pretty mediocre since to make use of it will mean we have to take HA (not that we shouldn't anyway) and use it 15 seconds late every time.

    I think as a class we still have earned our raid spots but with the buffs everyone else is getting and the patch notes we haven't seen yet that will undoubtedly impact EF and probably our mastery again I'm a little worried for the next tier.
    Hopefully they got a reality check and won't nerf EF and our mastery more, at least not without some significant compensation in other areas.

  6. #86
    I just don't get the 2pc. Holy Light and Divine Light make up tiny percentages of our healing. HR higher if you're 25. So to buff them by 10% every 12 seconds just seems ridiculous. You could do a 10% HR / DL buff just as standard as a 2pc and it not be OP.

    As for the 4pc. I don't get the complaints about it not lining up. We rarely use our cooldowns together anyway. It's weak but that's not why it's weak.

    Now they've given Guardian a 3min cooldown for ret they need to do the same for Holy. The ability makes no sense on a 5 min cooldown.

    Overall I feel like these patch notes are already behind the times. Plenty of druid buffs / QoL when they just aren't needed now.

  7. #87
    Stood in the Fire Kyuuseishu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    I just don't get the 2pc. Holy Light and Divine Light make up tiny percentages of our healing. HR higher if you're 25. So to buff them by 10% every 12 seconds just seems ridiculous. You could do a 10% HR / DL buff just as standard as a 2pc and it not be OP.

    As for the 4pc. I don't get the complaints about it not lining up. We rarely use our cooldowns together anyway. It's weak but that's not why it's weak.

    Now they've given Guardian a 3min cooldown for ret they need to do the same for Holy. The ability makes no sense on a 5 min cooldown.

    Overall I feel like these patch notes are already behind the times. Plenty of druid buffs / QoL when they just aren't needed now.
    Well the "we" doesn't exactly speak about all paladin's, depends on your personal healing style whether you split DF and AW or you use them together for more powerful healing burst. The one's who are complaining are the ones who do the latter more often than the former.

    Even if they make it a 3 minute, the spell limit is pretty annoying and the fact the haste buff just disappears after that 5th spell (don't quote me since today it seemed to last past its duration in raid so *shrug*)

  8. #88
    How I look at these is, T15 will be better for set bonuses if it's atleast 1 level higher (T15hc>T16normal, etc...), the bonuses in t15 2p is good for 25m but not so much for 10m but still nice especially on 2x stacks of daybreak and in my opinion it's better then that lauzy 10% increase on infusion, 4p set that gives 20% increased healing on beacon is just OP in 10man for raid benefit (not for meters since it does a lot of overheal) while I can't say much for t16 4p set but it does look nice, I myself tend to combine divine favor with AW for some nice burst healing on stuff like maze on durumu or sth like that and the 1,5k mastery is like only a little over 3% buff to illuminated healing and it gives 45s reduced cd which is also nice - we can now combine it with holy avanger which should give even more burst aoe healing.

    Regarding the previous post I don't always combine the cooldowns, on high dmg fights I do if we are 2man healing and use only 1 if we are 3man like magaera hc or on 3rd door on horridon.
    As I said in my opinion T16 will be better because of the pure higher ilvl and stats, I think I will hold on to t15 hc since it's pretty similar to t16 normal untill I get t16 hc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Hopefully they got a reality check and won't nerf EF and our mastery more, at least not without some significant compensation in other areas.
    Hopefully yh they woun't nerf mastery, the 20% was already way 2much and EF is like 3rd-5th on my list so it would be a shame to reduce it....unlike disc priests that were way 2overpower already and they are getting even more buffed....

    Any thoughts ?
    Last edited by favor98; 2013-06-13 at 07:04 AM.

  9. #89
    Stood in the Fire Kyuuseishu's Avatar
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    Well I know it's early PTR so jumping to end conclusions is probably too early since I expect it to be on the PTR for 2-3 months. But that said, the buff the divine insight according to the disc priest I heal with, still won't make it appeal to him and he will stick to Power Infusion. He did also say though, that holy would be stupid next patch next to the bonuses and the buffs to DI.

  10. #90
    Holy isn't getting a buff to DI. Was a datamining error on part of MMO-C. The set bonuses and the new Symbiosis (Holy Priests get Genesis which affects Renew...) are pretty ridic. though. I don't expect anything of Disc Priests or Holy Priests to go live otherwise you may as well have your 10 man healing setup as: Disc/Holy/Druid and 25 man as Disc/Disc/Holy/Monk/Druid.

  11. #91
    Stood in the Fire Kyuuseishu's Avatar
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    Ahh okey, thankyou for clarifying that, either way the set bonuses are still pretty damn powerful and holy getting Genesis? whut, thats just insane..

  12. #92
    I for one welcome our new priest overlords.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by mcbubble View Post
    I for one welcome our new priest overlords.
    Stop saying truthfulness. It's mean, and it burns.

    No, in truth the Holy set bonuses suck. They'll get changed. Would be nice to see something like:

    2pc - Successful Holy Shocks now grant <buff name> allowing the use of healing spells while moving for 3 seconds.
    4pc - For each HP spent the healing of your next Holy Radiance is increased by 20% per HP spent (stacking 5 times).

    I would think these would help a lot.

  14. #94
    Well to be honest, I'm more worried about druids smashing every other class, and here's why:
    Wild mushrooms: Druids can now move them without losing their stored healing. They also grows faster (100% - 200% of the casters health). So basically they can hot up a raid, use their new Genesis spell to burst overheal, then top off a raid with shrooms. They don't have to worry if the raid moves, they can just move their shroom. It's going to be nuts. They also revamped their level 90 abilities to give them increased healing. You watch. They'll be top (even over priests and mistweavers).

    I know it's early and that it's PTR...it just doesn't make sense. What are their developers looking at that we're not.
    Shammies are pretty horrid and their set bonus will give them some much needed love...but without the set bonus, they're going to be shit. They get no redesign (for the most part). Priests are on top by far, and they get some redesign for more throughput. Why? Druids - they're very strong right now and with these changes, if they go live...just watch out.

  15. #95
    It's early PTR. It's clear they focussed largely on Druids for the first part, they'll most likely show each class their own 'patch notes' as time goes on.

  16. #96
    I can count on one hand how many tier bonuses were ever completely redesigned from their original PTR implementation.

    In the current state of the PTR, Holy Paladins and Resto Shamans are a disaster compared to the other healing classes. We need to hope for BIG changes, because at the moment we're dead as a viable healing option.

  17. #97
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Stop saying truthfulness. It's mean, and it burns.

    No, in truth the Holy set bonuses suck. They'll get changed. Would be nice to see something like:

    2pc - Successful Holy Shocks now grant <buff name> allowing the use of healing spells while moving for 3 seconds.
    4pc - For each HP spent the healing of your next Holy Radiance is increased by 20% per HP spent (stacking 5 times).

    I would think these would help a lot.
    Stop with these healing while moving bonuses. We don't need it.

  18. #98
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Holy Radiance is arround 13% of a persons healing including the illuminated healing and about every 1/4 holy radiances will be infusion of light procs, that means the 2 set is a 1.5% increase in healing.
    Less, because nearly all of HR is overheal. Seems the 2pc might as well not be there at all.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Hopefully they got a reality check and won't nerf EF and our mastery more, at least not without some significant compensation in other areas.
    A reality check would be buffing our mastery to what it was, making HS 4 sec baseline, and probably buffing LoD by 15%. Even then we may struggle for raidspots on progress. We'd still be clunky in comparison to druids, monks, and priests. And god help shamans.

    The only other way to make us viable would be to completely destroy ret and prot.

  20. #100
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oggyowl View Post
    A reality check would be buffing our mastery to what it was, making HS 4 sec baseline, and probably buffing LoD by 15%. Even then we may struggle for raidspots on progress. We'd still be clunky in comparison to druids, monks, and priests. And god help shamans.

    The only other way to make us viable would be to completely destroy ret and prot.
    Honestly, I do not think those changes would be enough with the buffs to druids plus the state of other healers on the PTR. I also think there are plenty of things that they can do to boost us without destroying RET and Prot.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-06-14 at 02:21 PM.

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