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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Tagzz View Post
    Even if Holy Pally throughput is going to be as bad/nerfed as it looks like it will be, holy pallies will still be an almost required thing to have at least 1 in a 25 man setting. At this point the classic HPally/Priest set up for 10 man will probably not be not as good, but whatever.
    Yer, they'll be badly needed to bring all that utility that ret and prot just can't bring to the table.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Tagzz View Post
    Even if Holy Pally throughput is going to be as bad/nerfed as it looks like it will be, holy pallies will still be an almost required thing to have at least 1 in a 25 man setting. At this point the classic HPally/Priest set up for 10 man will probably not be not as good, but whatever.
    Atm high end 10 mans are running Disc Priest+Mistweaver and nothing was done to change that. Blizzard's nerfs so far were only for us, until Discs+Mw Monks will get nerfed there is no reason to change either

    Holy Paladin utility is brought by all the Paladin specs, utility like 200k Revival(non crit),Damage,etc is only brought by Mistweavers. I doubt Blizzard will repeat the mistake of tier 15 having debuffs BoPed of.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    Atm high end 10 mans are running Disc Priest+Mistweaver and nothing was done to change that. Blizzard's nerfs so far were only for us, until Discs+Mw Monks will get nerfed there is no reason to change either

    Holy Paladin utility is brought by all the Paladin specs, utility like 200k Revival(non crit),Damage,etc is only brought by Mistweavers. I doubt Blizzard will repeat the mistake of tier 15 having debuffs BoPed of.
    Not to mention that MW also avoids all ranged mechanics, giving lower risk of output dips.

  4. #164
    The Lightbringer nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    Holy Paladin utility is brought by all the Paladin specs, utility like 200k Revival(non crit),Damage,etc is only brought by Mistweavers. I doubt Blizzard will repeat the mistake of tier 15 having debuffs BoPed of.
    Was going to mention this: unlike Shaman utility which is almost all resto-exclusive, Paladins don't actually bring holy-specific utility (afaik anyway).

    So, what I'm wondering: Is there any reason high-end 25H guilds will actually require a paladin for all fights, other than soaking plate int gear?

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by oggyowl View Post
    Really depends on the boss for me. For megaera for example I'll almost never use HA and wings together, whereas on durumu the only real damage is in light spectrum so I build 5hp, pop wings and DF, then HA after a EF.
    Imo you are way better off by using HA during the maze. Yes you might see higher hps if you use all cds during light spectrum but that is just cheesing the meters, using HA during the maze phase can and will save a lot of people as most healers have reduced healing while running.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Was going to mention this: unlike Shaman utility which is almost all resto-exclusive, Paladins don't actually bring holy-specific utility (afaik anyway).

    So, what I'm wondering: Is there any reason high-end 25H guilds will actually require a paladin for all fights, other than soaking plate int gear?
    Can't say before seeing the fights on hc on PTR/first week of normal. Remember that while Druids weren't seen as "hot"(pun intended), we still used a resto druid on very many kills @ T15(and 2 resto druids @T14). Right now though I'd say 3 healer HC Garrosh 25 is more likely then not and it won't have a shaman/paladin.

  7. #167
    The Lightbringer nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Imo you are way better off by using HA during the maze. Yes you might see higher hps if you use all cds during light spectrum but that is just cheesing the meters, using HA during the maze phase can and will save a lot of people as most healers have reduced healing while running.
    I used HA for the first maze, and DF for all the mazes, but from a meter-only standpoint I would probably stack as much as I can on the light spectrum.

  8. #168
    Lol good thing I have a priest and monk alt to fall back on.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    Then your previous post makes no sense since the cd reduction of DF (2:15) more closely aligns it with the HA (2:00) cd. It already lines up perfectly with AW (3:00) so unless you're planning to delay AW to line it up with DF on the third set of cds? That seems awfully convoluted instead of delaying HA for 15 seconds per cycle and lining those up.

    You can still get all of them lined up every third with the delayed AW but stacking every 2:15 is still more throughput than staggering HA and lining up AW or whatever thing you're going to be doing.

    For anyone playing the home game here, I stack my cds whenever possible with some exceptions I'll stagger but most of the time I don't.

    If you line up DF and HA or DF and AW, or even all 3 together, it still creates a 15 second lull that forces you to wait for cds to line up.

    The problem lies here: You gain 1500 Mastery while DF is active. That sounds good in theory, but because of the 15 second lull where you have to *wait* for it to come off CD, you are losing 1500 mastery for 15 seconds as you wait for it to align with either HA or AW.

    That mastery buff essentially forces us to use it on CD without waiting for it to align with one of other cds in order to keep that extra 1500 rating at all times. Because of that, we will never be able to pop DF at the same time we use another CD except for the first time we use it. And the 5th, and the 9th (at 0:00, 8:00, and 16:00 minutes into a fight, respectively). There aren't many fights that last 8 minutes or longer.

    That's why this set bonus is so weak, because it's going to force us to stagger cds that the majority of us use together. If the new tier is going to allow us to get the 1500 mastery rating from the gear itself, this set bonus is completely wasted. It's not worth an extra 1.5k mastery that we can gain from gear if we are going to be forced to stagger cds in order to do the same thing by keeping DF on cd to keep that mastery buff active.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Imo you are way better off by using HA during the maze. Yes you might see higher hps if you use all cds during light spectrum but that is just cheesing the meters, using HA during the maze phase can and will save a lot of people as most healers have reduced healing while running.
    In 10m at least the maze phase is a joke. [even with the other healer dead] a prism/lod easily tops people off. Also a time you can crusader strike at without penalty, so no real issue there. HS/LOD/CS/prism is all you need (MAYBE a single HR if bored, but denounce is usually a better choice imo.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by oggyowl View Post
    In 10m at least the maze phase is a joke. [even with the other healer dead] a prism/lod easily tops people off. Also a time you can crusader strike at without penalty, so no real issue there. HS/LOD/CS/prism is all you need (MAYBE a single HR if bored, but denounce is usually a better choice imo.
    Im confused, are you sure you are talking about heroic durumu? I have not tried it on 10 man so I wouldnt know but theres quite a bit of damage on 25 man even if no one gets hit by eye sores (people usually do).

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Im confused, are you sure you are talking about heroic durumu? I have not tried it on 10 man so I wouldnt know but theres quite a bit of damage on 25 man even if no one gets hit by eye sores (people usually do).
    Yes, the damage is negligible in the maze phase even in heroic. (providing no eye plague thingies are still up i guess). Tbh durumu is next on our solohealing list (so far we do jinrokh (pala) horridon (priest), tortos (monk), and ji kun. We tried last week on durumu, but light phases were still tough for our priest. She'll try again in a few weeks when she gets the cloak. (I already spend that boss spamming denounce and just helping out a little in the light phase)
    Last edited by oggyowl; 2013-06-22 at 10:35 PM.

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