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  1. #21
    Our bad guys Austerity does not work and we accidentally caused a 5+ year recession in the Eurozone leading to millions of jobs lost and trillions in wealth destroyed.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    No, they did the exact opposite. They refused to stimulate the local economy and banks, the Greek government has a long-standing tradition of lax tax enforcement, creating a culture of tax evasion.
    The EU needs to cut Greece loose already. If Greece was actually trying to solve its problems that would be one thing, but there are just too many greedy lazy selfish people in charge. It's impossible to turn things around unless the culture changes.

    Greece is just a black hole really. All the money in the world wouldn't save it.

  3. #23
    A centralized financial authority doesn't know what to do? Colour me shocked.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthbetold View Post
    Everybody in Greece didnt want the imf.But the american-breed prime minister Papandreou forced them to us.When we were saying they are using us as guinea pig all the outsiders were saying pay ur taxes(which we were paying-only the extremely rich werent). The only thing u should rly know about the crisis in greece is that in 3 years we have 4.500 suicides because of the austerity measures(usually ppl who lost their homes)Not even in war we wouldnt have 4500 casualties but the media are hiding all this
    If it was everybody in Greece, but there were enough people voting for ND to make them largest party when it was clear that they would continue austerity. I hope that you will be able to shake it off soon, but fear now resignation has become a bigger danger than revolt and riots.

  5. #25
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    Come on lets not kid ourselves. Refusing the loan would not only obliterate Greece immediately, but it would also spread the toxicity of greek bonds all over the banking system, stocks going mental with no real knowledge of what might become. Do you remember that Asian country a few years ago and what it did to (mostly) USA economy? No one would believe that such a small country could have such repercussions internationally. This loan was the EU protecting itself and its banking system from huge damage, while unloading the majority of the rest of the damage to the EU tax paying citizens.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthbetold View Post
    Everybody in Greece didnt want the imf.But the american-breed prime minister Papandreou forced them to us.When we were saying they are using us as guinea pig all the outsiders were saying pay ur taxes(which we were paying-only the extremely rich werent). The only thing u should rly know about the crisis in greece is that in 3 years we have 4.500 suicides because of the austerity measures(usually ppl who lost their homes)Not even in war we wouldnt have 4500 casualties but the media are hiding all this
    Really is amazing how everything that is bad in the world is Americas fault. And people wonder why America doesn't give a fuck about the rest of the world.
    ---------------
    Edit: I might have missread the quote. My apologies.

  7. #27
    Any jackass with any interest in economics could see it would fail.
    “The north still reeks of undeath. Our homelands lay in ruin. Pandaria oozes our hatred and doubt. What hope is there for this world when the Burning Legion again lands upon our shores?” - Eric Thibeau

  8. #28
    Herald of the Titans Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Anyone with a E in GCSE Maths could tell their financial systems in Greece was appalling and detrimental.

    You can not ever cut funds, and expect growth. Growth only comes from creating the right conditions.
    I agree. You can not get growth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Sure, I agree they (as many nations do) needed to cut wasteful spending, but the best way to do that is to stop silly spending sprees, cut all ministerial wages, stop benefits to the rich who can support themselves, but ensure you provide a suitable location for businesses to thrive.
    I have never been in Greece, i speak as someone that lives in another bailouted country, Portugal.

    All of this has been donne. To have acces to the money you have to agree to certain circunstances, the ones you typed are always included.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    If you increase taxes, business will leave, not flood in. Lower taxes, spread the debt out as much as possible over a longer time span, encourage investment and growth in the country through deals and bribes if you need too!
    The IMF demands these aswell... This is one of the circunstances were they 100% failled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    You can't take a flower, and only give it just enough water to survive, and expect it to blossom and produce a lovely flower. Give it plenty of Water & Sun, and it'll do that. Same goes for a nations economy. Give it the conditions it needs to thrive, and it will.
    This has been sugested so many time... But no one ever seems to listen .

    I support austherity, when that austherity does not harm economy, because when we see IMF the EU central bank, and EU stabilisation found demanding deficit to be balanced around a recessive economy that keeps generating less income every month, its so obvious this ain't going to work, but is exactly the IMF and others are demanding to the baillouted countries .

  9. #29
    Austerity always harms the economy, it's just a question of is the private sector in a condition to pick up the slack.

    In Greece and for the majority of the world during the recession, the answer is/was no.

  10. #30
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    To add insult to injury, less than 5% of the public sector has been "fired" directly. yet all the unemployment hit the private sector like a sledgehammer with businesses and shops closing down like a domino. We should get rid like half of them already but the syndicates have such deep influences that politicians don't dare oppose them, they ll just strike them to oblivion and demand even a raise maybe. Pathetic fucking assholes, useless both of them. But guess what, those are the people who rise to power, the honest hard-working ones get consumed in their way. Such a vicious cycle...

  11. #31
    im surprised Greece is holding as a sovereign country after all these austerity packages.

  12. #32
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    We ve still got baby fat from the previous years of prosperity and family bonds are strong, so struggling families help each other and make it through, but this won't last for too long with the taxation of the middle classes this government is employing.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    im surprised Greece is holding as a sovereign country after all these austerity packages.
    Some would argue, that without the ability to issue their own currency, none of the Eurozone countries are truly sovereign.

    On the other hand, people have been predicting the imminent collapse of Japan for decades but it's still going (because it IS a sovereign country with its own currency).

    The best long-term solution for Greece may be to get out of the Eurozone and go back to using the drachma. Then say FU to the world and re-denominate all of its sovereign debt in a currency it can control (the drachma).

  14. #34
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    Tear the economical, social and political structure apart of an already debilitated country in exchange for loans......always a nice formula.

  15. #35
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    So....how many successes has the IMF actually had? I'm pretty sure the Eurozone crisis has not increased the overall success rate of the IMF's lending practices.

    If there is anything to be done to help the world, it would be to eliminate the IMF and WTO.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    The EU needs to cut Greece loose already. If Greece was actually trying to solve its problems that would be one thing, but there are just too many greedy lazy selfish people in charge. It's impossible to turn things around unless the culture changes.

    Greece is just a black hole really. All the money in the world wouldn't save it.
    Nope. But a more centralized EU given the power to enforce tax regulations and the like would.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Nope. But a more centralized EU given the power to enforce tax regulations and the like would.
    A centralization in power won't save Europe. Europe's problem is that it's simply got too much redundancy.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  18. #38
    The Unstoppable Force THE Bigzoman's Avatar
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    Anyone wanna fill me in on the history of the EU and what happened in Greece?

    All I remember is political slogans like "We can't do X. We'll end up like the Greeks" (Which usually prompted the THIS IS SPARTA remix into my head)

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzoman20 View Post
    Anyone wanna fill me in on the history of the EU and what happened in Greece?
    Greece wasn't ready to join the Euro in 1999, but they were still accepted. Goldman Sachs and other banks helped them cook their books and they got access to cheap loans that caused rapid growth based on lent money.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/e...ce?INTCMP=SRCH

    When it came to the nitty-gritty of deciding the terms of bailout packages, the Fund was much more willing to cut crisis countries some slack: it was the commission and the ECB that wanted the conditions to be draconian.

    The Fund now thinks mistakes were made in the case of Greece. It believes there should have been a debt writedown accompanying the financial rescue in 2010. It accepts that unrealistic assumptions were made about Greece's ability to cope with austerity, and in retrospect would have allowed Athens longer to bring down its budget deficit. In Brussels yesterday there was no such contrition. The commission "fundamentally disagrees" with the Fund that early debt restructuring would have helped and still believes, despite a slump of Great Depression proportions, that the approach was right.
    The IMF, ECB and European Commission had to choose if they will save Greece from a default or if they would let them leave. A default would have killed German and French banks and would have dragged down more debt ridden countries. In the end the Troika paid the banks, but forced Greece to cut down its public expenditures which caused unemployment and depression.

  20. #40
    the problem with the world is not more regulation its increased desire for control dissection and internal power grabs that are less and less effective.

    if you cant control the cattle anymore you gotta starve em till they listen
    Professor Membrane: anyone that would build a space/time object replacement device is a complete MORON "echo" Moron" "fadeing more" moron
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