League of Legends Lead Content Designer 'Morello' Scott talks about World of Warcraft

[Sarevokcz]

Blizz doesn't care? You're kidding right? LoL and soon to be Dota 2 are cash cows and every company cares about money. I'm sure Blizz is so uninterested in the Moba market they wouldn't even care about making one, oh wait Blizzard All Stars...

Blizzard is a great game company, no question. Morello emphasized that multiple times in his posts. But they are not infallible. In my opinion, Morello makes some good points about why WoW developers did what they did but he feels it was a mistake.

Blizzard allstars is gonna fail exactly where other MMOS failed after WoW. There is simply limited ammount of people interested in the genre and people are not gonna leave dota2 or LoL with years of support and history and money invested in (boosts/heroes in LoL/cosmetics in dota) just because the mighty blizzard wants to step into the genre. Yes its gonna have some following (if it ever comes to life) but its just gonna be A game, not THE game

And morello makes no points that are valid, given the fact that he has no data to support such claims. Some people feel the same =/= proposed changes would be improvement for either WoW as a game or WoW community.

[finskee]

Blizz doesn't care? You're kidding right?

I meant they don't care that they have borrowed or that other people borrow from them. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery right? I'm sure they were a little bummed that someone was going to make money off of their ideas, but that's a whole different item that I wasn't really addressing. Again I was pointing out that LOL and DOTA are tributes to blizzard games, and I don't care, and blizz probably loves it.

Blizzard is a great game company, no question. Morello emphasized that multiple times in his posts. But they are not infallible. In my opinion, Morello makes some good points about why WoW developers did what they did but he feels it was a mistake.

Well U2 is not infallible but I trust them to make good music. That's the point. You guys want to say Blizz is doing it wrong and that's fine, but the facts remain. Biggest MMO of all time, most copied and borrowed from game in recent history, what game dev doesn't take their hats off to blizzard and want to sit down for drinks with GC? Why is it that there are so many players that are willing to go toe to toe with the Blizz devs and say they are in the wrong? You have so little respect, why should I respect your opinions? You can share them but why should I RESPECT them? Give me one reason? Where's the balanced and informed opinions in this little forum? Don't you at least see the LOL devs bias? Please at least tell me you get that he has one? At least you can see why he might hint that his game is more for gamers than WOW?

[Aaldarius]

It was an interesting to read about LoL's LCD take on WoW. My first impression that I got, that I think a few people will over look easily is that LoL is F2P. In the simplest essence, Riot could make any changes they want since they don't owe really anything to their customers. WoW is a P2P and Blizzard has taken the incentive to cater their content to their customers, hence them listening.

I think Blizzard making all changes while disregarding what the playerbase wants would be too risky. Just because you or I played pre-BC/BC does not mean the whole world was playing it, as it did in the previous two expansions. Blizz started cashing in late BC/WotlK when they started getting huge subscriptions which is when it became evident that they were looking into player concerns for content balancing, Ulduar/ToT were player drive created raid instances I think.

But I don't think I am going to bother with subscription numbers since people think that the WoW community only consists MMO-Champ and WoW forums, excluding the other 7.5 million or more subscribers. Yeah, you might be pissed your guild is only 1/13H but there's probably a million other players still going at it on normal Horridon or normal Ji-kun - I doubt they are enjoying it but Blizz caters towards them right???

My last point is moot but it is just a interesting observation that I have seen of LoL - is the sheer amount of ex-WoW players on it. My friends play LoL all the time but most of them quit WoW a two years ago, but they still compare the two games all the time. I am being to fell that most of the serious LoL population is just burned WoW players or something around that. So maybe the LoL LDC wants WoW to tank to get more LoL players. But I still fail to see how the two games are remotely comparable.

[schwank05]

Eh, he makes a fair point but I still hate TBC simply because of attunements and pretty much anything that hindered alt playing. I don't think Raids should be exclusive, but I don't think we should have stuff nerfed because not-so-good players now have access. LFR should be to see content, not to gear alts (and mains with shit luck).

Back then not many people had alts at least not at max level. I didnt get my 2nd max level character until 2 weeks before wrath dropped. My Hunter was my one and only character back then and I couldnt imagine having more than one and gearing them. that being said I want BC/ Wrath back.

---------- Post added 2013-06-10 at 01:27 PM ----------

It was an interesting to read about LoL's LCD take on WoW. My first impression that I got, that I think a few people will over look easily is that LoL is F2P. In the simplest essence, Riot could make any changes they want since they don't owe really anything to their customers. WoW is a P2P and Blizzard has taken the incentive to cater their content to their customers, hence them listening.

I think Blizzard making all changes while disregarding what the playerbase wants would be too risky. Just because you or I played pre-BC/BC does not mean the whole world was playing it, as it did in the previous two expansions. Blizz started cashing in late BC/WotlK when they started getting huge subscriptions which is when it became evident that they were looking into player concerns for content balancing, Ulduar/ToT were player drive created raid instances I think.

But I don't think I am going to bother with subscription numbers since people think that the WoW community only consists MMO-Champ and WoW forums, excluding the other 7.5 million or more subscribers. Yeah, you might be pissed your guild is only 1/13H but there's probably a million other players still going at it on normal Horridon or normal Ji-kun - I doubt they are enjoying it but Blizz caters towards them right???

My last point is moot but it is just a interesting observation that I have seen of LoL - is the sheer amount of ex-WoW players on it. My friends play LoL all the time but most of them quit WoW a two years ago, but they still compare the two games all the time. I am being to fell that most of the serious LoL population is just burned WoW players or something around that. So maybe the LoL LDC wants WoW to tank to get more LoL players. But I still fail to see how the two games are remotely comparable.

I bolded my problem with the game, our guild all but fell apart because of the wall that was N Horridon. We have not raided in over 2 months, and our GL/RL has not been online in over a month.

[Kencaid]

I agree with his post, and have made similar arguments in regards as to why WoW is in decline. For those players who are newer, meaning those of you from WotLK to present, you never had the chance to experience WoW in its original context (a little in early Wrath, and I still think Wrath as a whole was an amazing expansion). The exclusivity of raiding and high end pvp gear was a thing to respect and admire, not complain that "I can't do it." When seeing a hand of rag in a WSG meant "OMG get away from that guy" or being able to list off most of the major raiding guilds and key players from your server. When attaining gear would amount to a certain pride and having a ton of ppl on your friends list to do things with. This is long dead. The instant we get new gear? Xmog it cuz it looks like crap. Can I tell what kind of gear you are wearing? No, and i dont really care all that matters is if you have a certain Ilvl. Do I know any of the major geared players on my server? Nope.

On smaller realms that are near dead, LFD and LFR are a necessity. But this is a server issue, not a game design issue. I still feel the WotLK design best suited the overall WoW community, and this is something that GC has mentioned on numerous occasions. It seems that they agree with many that LFR was/is a terrible idea, but now that it exists and the community has molded itself around a anti-social, lack of skill, 0 effort raiding system, eliminating it from the game could end wow entirely. The best solution (IMO) would be to lessen the importance of LFR, or change how it works entirely. Make it unavailable for new content, but have it available for the previous tier with full ilvl rewards (so for MSV, 489 loot, and HoF/TOES 496, also being available 2 weeks ish after the new content would be released).

Flex raiding also comes into this, and I feel this is the RIGHT call, and should have been made in Cata instead of implementing LFR. This would essentially allow equal 25m and 10m guilds in normal/heroic, while also giving that easier ICC 10M feel that existed in WotLK and granting another raid lockout. Grats blizz on coming up with a intermediate alternative....now if only you could get rid of that anti-community beast known as LFR. WoW is a MMO, and being social is an important part of that experience. Friends lists, guilds, party's ect all add to the game. Personally I don't do LFR or LFD without 2-3 people from realid or my guild because it not only makes things easier in terms of ensuring I have some good players, but also makes the experience more enjoybale from a social aspect (i hate lfr). And yes, being social should be a near mandatory part of the game, its a MMO. If you don't want to play with ppl, play skyrim.

[re1gn1te]

He's right, and there's no real way to go back to the way it was, the best thing they could do IMO is in 6.0 +++ not do LFR anymore and stick to flex -> normals -> heroics. At least this way people have to put at least some effort into seeing the raiding content not just Q up and afk and act like retarded monkeys. It would bring *some* exclusivity back not TBC levels obviously but a little is better than none.

[Zaqwert]

The game no longer has any logical carrot on a stick for players to chase.

Agreed.

WoW in 2013 = "Log on, queue up, here's your bucket of carrots"

[Mad_Murdock]

I bolded my problem with the game, our guild all but fell apart because of the wall that was N Horridon. We have not raided in over 2 months, and our GL/RL has not been online in over a month.

But they nerfed normal Horridon twice. The first one was all that iIthought was needed. Blizz\GC did admit that it was a bad thing and they are going to work on not lettig it happen again. Sounds like your guild might have been on the edge anyways. But Flex raids will hopefully fill that gap for ya.

Agreed.

WoW in 2013 = "Log on, queue up, here's your bucket of carrots"

I don't understand that. There is normal and Heroic modes. Are you sayign WoW is nothing but LFR and LFD now ? Look at all the complaining about heroic Scenarios requiring a premade group. Community seems to be heavily split on what they want. You either want to grind everything or you want everything to be que based. Technically you have both, but everyone seems to think there is only 1 option.

[abc123lol]

That man knows what he's talking about on so many levels.

[finskee]

The exclusivity of raiding and high end pvp gear was a thing to respect and admire, not complain that "I can't do it."

He's right, and there's no real way to go back to the way it was, the best thing they could do IMO is in 6.0 +++ not do LFR anymore and stick to flex -> normals -> heroics. At least this way people have to put at least some effort into seeing the raiding content not just Q up and afk and act like retarded monkeys. It would bring *some* exclusivity back not TBC levels obviously but a little is better than none.

Gonna link this again cause its buried now: http://www.mmogamer.com/08/06/2007/b...2%80%9D-kaplan

This interview from 2006 shows that the original wow devs never intended there to be this exclusivity that you guys loved. NEVER. They wanted anyone to have FUN playing it, not to look at other people and imagine how much fun those guys were having. This idea that BC was exclusive is hilarious because they started it with a 10 man raid, because they knew Zul Gurub was their most popular raid in vanilla but that wasn't what they had intended. Also they never hoped that people would just quit before naxx. They LEARNED that exclusivity was not working. They fixed it.

---------- Post added 2013-06-10 at 11:47 AM ----------

Technically you have both, but everyone seems to think there is only 1 option.

I use all options available. Crazy talk i know.

[mastagomes]

But they nerfed normal Horridon twice. The first one was all that iIthought was needed. Blizz\GC did admit that it was a bad thing and they are going to work on not lettig it happen again. Sounds like your guild might have been on the edge anyways. But Flex raids will hopefully fill that gap for ya.



I don't understand that. There is normal and Heroic modes. Are you sayign WoW is nothing but LFR and LFD now ? Look at all the complaining about heroic Scenarios requiring a premade group. Community seems to be heavily split on what they want. You either want to grind everything or you want everything to be que based. Technically you have both, but everyone seems to think there is only 1 option.

Actually yes, that's exactly what he's saying. As many people have argued in this thread, apparently for the large majority of gamers in WoW, the game is just about LFR/LFD for them, so in reality, yes, the majority of game is MOSTLY just those features for the vast majority of players.

[Chipperbane]

This Morello guy has no idea what he's talking about. He is clueless.

Yes, games do need to have exclusive content so that people have something to strive towards, so that it feels rewarding, and so that content isn't beaten before more content can be created.

But WoW does have exclusive content: heroic raids--arguably the hardest and most exclusive PvE content in any game.

But that same token, we could make a new raid called "Super Heroic" and revert all the bosses to Normal Difficulty, but, and here's the kicker - they all wear silly hats during the encounter.

We, of course, will only allow this for people who have beaten Ra-Den.

So damn exclusive, you don't even know.

Of course, it's a joke of an idea, but as long as it's SUPRA EXCLUSIVE, right?

Wrong. A statistical increase and a couple new abilities don't make an encounter more exclusive, they make an encounter more difficult.

[finskee]

Actually yes, that's exactly what he's saying. As many people have argued in this thread, apparently for the large majority of gamers in WoW, the game is just about LFR/LFD for them, so in reality, yes, the majority of game is MOSTLY just those features for the vast majority of players.

That's like saying for many people the game is all about pet battles. You're glossing over the fact that this game has lots of depth, has all sorts of difficulties, and many features, and just focusing on your own little beef which is what? Whatever it is it's getting pretty silly. If you don't like a Q then go play a game without one. Good luck finding it.

Imagine if the only way to get into a poker game online was to spam a chat for it, then one day someone came up with a system to automatically seat you and everyone complained that now they didn't want to talk anymore.

Now imagine they took away the automatic seating system and went back to the chat only format. What would people do? Complain? Go to the other poker site that has automatic seating?

It's really time to think about conveniance vs. community, the tradeoffs, and the realities of taking away features from players. Community is not the poker sites responsibility, nor is talking, making friends, being social. Those are the things you all want the removal of LF tools to fix, but I don't think you get what you're asking for. The end of wow is what would happen. Go work on your social skills.

[Mad_Murdock]

That's like saying for many people the game is all about pet battles. You're glossing over the fact that this game has lots of depth, has all sorts of difficulties, and many features, and just focusing on your own little beef which is what? Whatever it is it's getting pretty silly. If you don't like a Q then go play a game without one. Good luck finding it.

I'm with you on this. Sometimes I wish LFD\LFR\BGs would break for a week or so, to remind folks what it was like. I use to run dungeons the old way back in BC and start of Wrath and I love the Que system. I also use open raid and chat to jump in or fill other groups for normal raids\scenariosn\Ood\nalak. Personally the game is choked full of options, I just don't see how folks can claim it's limited to this or that, unless it's just willfully choosing to.

One thing I don't miss about the old way of dungeons that I see pretty regularly in Oond and Nalak groups is no one goes there, everyone just spams "Summons me" That's nothing new, people did that in TBC and early Wrath, so teleport is pretty awesome in that regards.

[Aquamonkey]

I'm with you on this. Sometimes I wish LFD\LFR\BGs would break for a week or so, to remind folks what it was like.

BGs made after Vanilla don't have actual portals.

[finskee]

BGs made after Vanilla don't have actual portals.

yeah and thank god for that... bg q is one no one seems to mind lol.

[Chipperbane]

I kind of miss the portals. It gave me an idea of where the fight was.

I mean, where the hell is Eye of the Storm.

[finskee]

Netherstorm, but just like the other battlegrounds, not actually visible in that zone. The portals are in dalaran.

[Deleted]

Talked to some guys at work about this today, sadly none of them play any more but they all agreed!

Wake up Blizz, you have fans! (Some of us played d n d in 80s and Wow was closest we have encountered, what a game. But not now, but you know that, so get to work! Blizzcon should be the best ever).

[finskee]

Talked to some guys at work about this today, sadly none of them play any more but they all agreed!

Wake up Blizz, you have fans! (Some of us played d n d in 80s and Wow was closest we have encountered, what a game. But not now, but you know that, so get to work! Blizzcon should be the best ever).

lol ok. love your enthusiasm. But I don't have time to sit around for 4 days straight doing mushrooms and rollin dice, not to mention the math, or the arguments about how far the thief moved in one round. I prefer wow thanks. I swear nostalgia is funny sometimes, you just have to see it.