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  1. #21
    If the goal was to have less players and make much less money than they did, then yes, he's right of course.

  2. #22
    I'll buy morellonomicon more often as a token of appreciation!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    I don't know Scott's career, but this whole thread is based on "here's a designer for a popular game and here's what he thinks about Blizzard's design for WoW". Except he's commenting on the one element in WoW that's completely missing in LoL.
    And what does that matter?

    Ill tell u how much it matters... NONE.

    Hes still a much more influential and knowledgeable person to comment on Wow design, certainly more qualified than any players of Wow.

    Hes more qualified because hes helped design a successful game whcih is still growing, therefore his understanding on the gaming market is clearly VERY good. Ur welcome to dismiss his comments, but most would agree its foolish to dismiss such a highly qualified opinion.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    And what does that matter?

    Ill tell u how much it matters... NONE.

    Hes still a much more influential and knowledgeable person to comment on Wow design, certainly more qualified than any players of Wow.

    Hes more qualified because hes helped design a successful game whcih is still growing, therefore his understanding on the gaming market is clearly VERY good. Ur welcome to dismiss his comments, but most would agree its foolish to dismiss such a highly qualified opinion.
    So if Waylon Jennings comments on a Cannibal Corpse record, it's a highly qualified opinion?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    I agree with him - the "everyone must see everything" mentality has driven WoW downward.
    It was blizzard who said after vanilla "great we have 10mil players BUT only 0.01% went inside nax and we have to change that"
    and I totally agree with them and if you had a brain you would too - whats the point of game content if you block someone
    from seeing it just because a person like you have to feel like a binary special snowflake?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    And what does that matter?

    Ill tell u how much it matters... NONE.

    Hes still a much more influential and knowledgeable person to comment on Wow design, certainly more qualified than any players of Wow.

    Hes more qualified because hes helped design a successful game whcih is still growing, therefore his understanding on the gaming market is clearly VERY good. Ur welcome to dismiss his comments, but most would agree its foolish to dismiss such a highly qualified opinion.
    You must not work in the video game industry. Plenty of WoW players know shed loads more about WoW than this guy ever could.

    No, no don't wanna be a hipster but a big star
    And I wanna see my name tattooed where your tits are

  7. #27
    morello's opinion on anything is instantly invalid because he fucking works on one of the shittiest games on the planet. also he thinks healers don't belong in games.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    And what does that matter?

    Ill tell u how much it matters... NONE.

    Hes still a much more influential and knowledgeable person to comment on Wow design, certainly more qualified than any players of Wow.

    Hes more qualified because hes helped design a successful game whcih is still growing, therefore his understanding on the gaming market is clearly VERY good. Ur welcome to dismiss his comments, but most would agree its foolish to dismiss such a highly qualified opinion.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumen...l_to_authority

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    So if Waylon Jennings comments on a Cannibal Corpse record, it's a highly qualified opinion?
    So when one world leader has an opinion on another country then his opinions are invalid?

    Thats right, your analogy goes both ways. Its easy to find analogies which back up the argument on both sides.

    Truth is hes a world standard game designer with a career surrounded with success.. therefore (whether u like the guy or not) his opinons on other successful games are valid.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by swagster View Post
    http://i.imgur.com/2tSkfWX.png

    Agree/Disagree? Share your thoughts.
    Not one single thing he said justifies excluding players from content. We have heroic mode raids now so that is for the raiders who enjoy a challenge and exclusivity. Players running easier modes of raids doesn't hurt anyone in any way whatsoever. You people seriously need to just mind your own business.

    Also something you people refuse to consider is the fact that since Blizzard introduced LFR the "dirty casuals" have stopped demanding nerfs. What few players who do still demand nerfs generally get laughed out of the forums by everyone including the casuals who have their easy mode now.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 03:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Espada View Post
    I think that was he said has been thought and intuitevly known by many, many people in the past. Having a lead designer (even if he's from a different genre) come and say it more or less validate it. The problem for Blizzard is that is too late, and that the best solutions they can do at this point is patch the problem, like with the flex raids. They can't really put the genie back in the bottle. The instant Wotlk broke in two difficulties the raid content, they were lost. Entitlement and "but I used to" were inflicted upon WoW. Thanks, worst expansion ever.
    What entitlement? Again players have stopped demanding nerfs to normal modes because they now have LFR which means Blizzard isn't nearly as likely to nerf normal/heroic modes like they did in previous expansions. I know you people love to hate LFR and that casuals have "your" gear but because of that you get to keep your challenging content challenging.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 03:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    I agree with him - the "everyone must see everything" mentality has driven WoW downward.
    If driving Wow downward means driving the wannabe hardcores out of the game I'm all for it.
    Last edited by xanzul; 2013-06-07 at 07:29 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    So when one world leader has an opinion on another country then his opinions are invalid?

    Thats right, your analogy goes both ways. Its easy to find analogies which back up the argument on both sides.

    Truth is hes a world standard game designer with a career surrounded with success.. therefore (whether u like the guy or not) his opinons on other successful games are valid.
    Only to a certain extent. He is, after all, comparing apples to oranges. That he is an apple farmer doesn't make him more qualified to tell the orange farmer how to grow his fruit.

    Truth is, MOBAs are nothing like MMOs and he is still completely out of his element here.

    No, no don't wanna be a hipster but a big star
    And I wanna see my name tattooed where your tits are

  12. #32
    I gave it a read not knowing what to expect (didn't really get into LoL), but I have to fully agree with him. I agree that not everyone needs to see everything, because it acts as a sense of infinite possibilities. An endless game like he said.

    Didn't expect to read such an interesting thing, thanks for sharing this.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuji V2 View Post
    I gave it a read not knowing what to expect (didn't really get into LoL), but I have to fully agree with him. I agree that not everyone needs to see everything, because it acts as a sense of infinite possibilities. An endless game like he said.

    Didn't expect to read such an interesting thing, thanks for sharing this.
    And that is a bad thing?

    No, no don't wanna be a hipster but a big star
    And I wanna see my name tattooed where your tits are

  14. #34
    Lol has arguably the worst community of any game in the history of computing, so i'd say that he should take a better look to his own game before criticizing others.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    And that is a bad thing?
    Where did I say it was a bad thing?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Gniral View Post
    Lol has arguably the worst community of any game in the history of computing, so i'd say that he should take a better look to his own game before criticizing others.
    What does this have to do with any of the talking points on the table? The Riot team didn't code their game's player behavior. And people like Lyte over there are trying to turn the behavioral issues around.

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  17. #37
    Designing content for the wants and needs for a MMORPG is different from a MOBA game. Riot would IMO never sink in a lot of resources and time for things that less than 1% will ever see.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    Truth is, MOBAs are nothing like MMOs and he is still completely out of his element here.
    Sorry dude but ur still clueless.

    Ur saying that devs currently working on MMOs will never (or have never) in their careers work on a FPS game or turn-based strategy games etc etc etc

    Gaming devs work on loads of different gaming genres... people who think otherwise r simply clueless. (probably teenagers who have never worked in the real world).

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Sorry dude but ur still clueless.

    Ur saying that devs currently working on MMOs will never (or have never) in their careers work on a FPS game or turn-based strategy games etc etc etc

    Gaming devs work on loads of different gaming genres... people who think otherwise r simply clueless. (probably teenagers who have never worked in the real world).
    He's never worked on an MMO of WoW's caliber, that is for sure. I work for a game developer working on 3 different genres right now. If the teams switched mid-development, there would undoutably be serious issues with what came out afterwards.

    No, no don't wanna be a hipster but a big star
    And I wanna see my name tattooed where your tits are

  20. #40
    I think it's strange that he bases his whole argument on the fact that WoWs sub numbers were high and rising during the exclusivity phase. Especially as a game designer it is strang that he uses the same monocausal explanation as many of the forum posters. The number went up for all kinds of reason. I doubt that very much new players started wow because of the hard raids. I doubts many of the new players even knew what a raid is when they bought the game at their gamestore.

    And on top of that it's pretty clear that the Blizzard devs privately like the exclusive raids (they stated it many times and GC even wrote a blog about it) and they still changed the game in the opposite direction. Why ? Think about it.
    My guess, for example, is that during BC they may have had a very bad player retention. Maybe a really big number of players quit after reaching max level but their numbers never appeared in the public because even more new players bought the game and so the subs as a whole were rising.
    No matter what, something happened that forced them to make the endgame more inclusive, even against their own private tastes.

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