League of Legends Lead Content Designer 'Morello' Scott talks about World of Warcraft

[Deleted]

From someone that plays both LoL and WoW: I respect his opinion and I think they've done a good job with their game but his opinion on WoW raiding is no more valuable than anyone else. Plus, imo he's wrong but there's no point arguing in bash threads.

[melodramocracy]

Except LoL is a more profitable and more played game than WoW... so it does deserves some kind of acknowledgement. If anything this thread shows that many of the more eloquent and thoughtful or dedicated players agree with his opinion.

http://www.insideview.com/directory/riot-games-inc

No, it isn't.

[SamR]

Blizzard doesn't have game-developers to know what people need or want. They've got specialized people in market-sales (My job is similar).
So, Morello has better qualification than most of wow players, because he knows (or think that he knows) what market needs.

If the market needs exclusive raiding content that most casuals can't touch, why isn't LoL adding that? Exactly how much of the content in LoL is exclusive to only the super hardcore pros? Are there heros that only the top 1% pros can use? Are there maps that newbies aren't allowed to play on?

[Peacemoon]

A key point he makes is there were millions of WoW players even when raiding was not 'available to everyone'. Really, people who think WoW is all about raiding are incredibly short sighted and probably need to play the game without raiding for a few weeks.. ( or months..., or years!)

[exriel]

As someone else pointed out, this is the same warble garble you hear from the frothing masses on the forums daily. The whole post is basically just stroking the ego's of forum posters in a not-so-subtle attempt to bash WoW and attract more players to his own game. While his position in the industry means that I might at least read all of his comments (which I did), it doesn't give them any intrinsic value. He is a respected developer because he has had good insights in the past, not the other way round. Smart people can still make bad choices or arrive at flawed conclusions, especially when working off imperfect information. If LoL had spent half their budget developing a feature they thought would be cool, but was only used by a tiny (if vocal) minority, my guess is that he would sing a different tune.

[Theendgamelv3]

Except LoL is a more profitable and more played game than WoW... so it does deserves some kind of acknowledgement. If anything this thread shows that many of the more eloquent and thoughtful or dedicated players agree with his opinion.

Name current successful sub MMORPGs that has exclusive raiding.

[Belisaurio]

If the market needs exclusive raiding content that most casuals can't touch, why isn't LoL adding that? Exactly how much of the content in LoL is exclusive to only the super hardcore pros? Are there heros that only the top 1% pros can use? Are there maps that newbies aren't allowed to play on?

Yep, less than 0.01% can play Challenger. That is the top (end-game) content in LOL.

[Theendgamelv3]

Yep, less than 0.01% can play Challenger. That is the top (end-game) content in LOL.

That is MUCH different than raiding in MMORPGs......

[chrisisvacant]

Except LoL is a more profitable and more played game than WoW... so it does deserves some kind of acknowledgement. If anything this thread shows that many of the more eloquent and thoughtful or dedicated players agree with his opinion.

Absolutely not. WoW makes money hand over fist compared to LoL. I dunno what you're smoking.

[Darmalus]

Exclusive content is not content. By being out of reach, it effectively ceases to exist for those who are excluded. It does motivate those excluded players, motivates them to leave and find new content elsewhere.

[Deleted]

And yet the expansion with most inclusive content to date (WLK) had the highest sub numbers. Exclusivity always by definition means you say to some of your potential customers "fuck off, we don't need your money".

Thats not true.

The most inclusive content is MoP.

Wrath was the first expac to change to a concept of inclusion but it still held the 'inclusion bar' pretty high. Hence why so few people got into Naxx.

The game has become more and more inclusive from Wrath to MoP, and thats why MoP is by far the most inclusive period of Wow.

It was at the end of Wrath when the inclusion philosophy became Blizzards aim... and strangely enough it was at this point that the subs have been in decline... says it all really.

[melodramocracy]

And yet the expansion with most inclusive content to date (WLK) had the highest sub numbers. Exclusivity always by definition means you say to some of your potential customers "fuck off, we don't need your money".

Or, you can take it to mean "here's something to work towards". Certainly more players cleared Dragon Soul than ICC or Ulduar when they were all relevant, nor was Wrath actually as inclusive as MoP is, but I digress.

The idea that the sub swings in WoW are due to the raiding environment at the time is way off base. Overall scope and game content will keep players wanting to play, even if the toughest encounters are something a bit more difficult to achieve.

[SamR]

Yep, less than 0.01% can play Challenger. That is the top (end-game) content in LOL.

So there are new heros and maps that Riot has to develop separately for Challenger tier?

[chrisisvacant]

Blizzard doesn't have game-developers to know what people need or want. They've got specialized people in market-sales (My job is similar).
So, Morello has better qualification than most of wow players, because he knows (or think that he knows) what market needs.

That's not a good point.

Orange farmer can tell to Apple farmer how to rise up his sales in too many ways. The product is one variable, but there are a lot more.

Except he has no clue what the market for the most popular and lucrative MMO on the planet needs. He has never, ever, ever worked with a game of that scope.

Guess what? You take someone with a much smaller scope than is necessary and plop them in the middle of this Goliath of a game, you will see a dip in quality. Period. It happens all the time in video game development, albeit to a different degree of success. Check any studio which sees massive success of one of their titles over the others. Designers, engineers, and others involved in the process will either need to scale appropriately in talent and scope or they will be forced to replace their team with people more apt for the job.

I am not confident in his ability to diagnose WoW's problems and I'm not sure he is presenting his opinion as such. It seems that the commenters here are using it as a representation of -their own- opinion, which of course means law of the land in their world.

[purramandakitty]

Don't really understand the desire or need to try to find faults in a game that is miles and miles the best game that has ever existed of its genre.

And no, I don't agree with any of his comments.

The "problem" with WoW is that it is old, nothing more nothing less. It is impossible for a game of this age to bring in fresh blood faster than current players outgrow the game and move on to something else. The fact that WoW has kept a high subscriber base for such a long period of time should be held as a testament to the designers of the game.

[Theendgamelv3]

Thats not true.

The most inclusive content is MoP.

Wrath was the first expac to change to a concept of inclusion but it still held the 'inclusion bar' pretty high. Hence why so few people got into Naxx.

It was at the end of Wrath when the philosophy changed... and strangely enough it was at this point that the subs have been in decline... says it all really.

Except it doesn't. I could EASILY say that people wanted to kill the Lich King and did and that was it for them and then subs dropped. Noone possibly outside of Blizzard knows the true meaning why subs dropped. It could be what you said, it could be what I said, it could be because the game is older, could be because people got older and have no time, it could a number of things. In the end there is no ONE thing, no one HUGE thing that cause subs to drop. Subs dropping at the end of Lich King says nothing cause noone know exactly what that thing is.

[Sandrox]

Except LoL is a more profitable and more played game than WoW... so it does deserves some kind of acknowledgement. If anything this thread shows that many of the more eloquent and thoughtful or dedicated players agree with his opinion.

More played? Probably, since its free. More profitable? No way in hell. You could easily say WoW is the most profitable video game EVER.

[Belisaurio]

That is MUCH different than raiding in MMORPGs......

Yes I think. Lol has only 4 maps and 30 levels to "learn" the game, so the difference between players are the league that they play. That is the most important thing in LOL (end-game), and with that in mind, Challenger is like the final boss of WoW.

Except he has no clue what the market for the most popular and lucrative MMO on the planet needs. He has never, ever, ever worked with a game of that scope.

Guess what? You take someone with a much smaller scope than is necessary and plop them in the middle of this Goliath of a game, you will see a dip in quality. Period. It happens all the time in video game development, albeit to a different degree of success. Check any studio which sees massive success of one of their titles over the others. Designers, engineers, and others involved in the process will either need to scale appropriately in talent and scope or they will be forced to replace their team with people more apt for the job

Agree with you. But If i'm going to choose between wows player-base vs Morellos in game-sales, without doubt I will choose Morello.

[Ghâzh]

But the reality is that the progress was blocked in vanilla and TBC by the unrelenting progress train without catchup mechanisms. If you started vanilla year late the fact is you'd never see any raids past MC and first few bosses of BWL. All guilds capable of breaching that barrier had done so already, and those who couldn't, were stuck. And as a player in a MC guild there was no way up. Exactly same happened in TBC. Once you had completed TK and later BT attunements the players who weren't attuned were essentially worthless to you, end result being players who joined TBC year after release were stuck doing Karazhan and nothing but Karazhan without any progress path, and those players who started on day one were doing Black Temple and later Sunwell. The amount of guilds in the middle was close to zero.

No amount of hard work you do will help when the ladders end up halfway between floors and you can't climb higher. That was the biggest failure of exclusive raid content of early WoW.

Yes and it was also one of the best sides of exclusive content of early WoW. When you were stuck on doing Karazhan and the rest of the early content it also made you crave so much more to climb up on the ladder. It made you look up to those who were better than you and made you wanna be like them.

And it's not like it was impossible to progress back then even though you were behind the cutting edge guilds. Nothing stopped you from gathering 24 others who weren't as far in the game and start with Gruul and move on to SSC/TK and so forth. I know because that just what I did. When our guild started with SSC and TK the best guilds were already killing first bosses in Black Temple. We made swift progress and finished both instances and it felt so rewarding. Didn't work out so well for the guild after that but I was able to move on to BT guild and boy did that make me feel good.

[BananaHandsB]

I actually do have to agree with him. Yes, the majority of the WoW community didn't have the time to invest to be able to progress in high-end raiding and so they cried for an easier way to access it, but that's just the thing, they weren't the intended audience, even tho they make up the majority of the community. But that's the nature of high-end...anything really. Part of the allure is the exclusivity, and knowing that the extra time your investing is really getting you something more out of the game. In a sense, you had to earn your right to raid, and that made sense.

There should be something significant to gain from playing the game more and better than your average player. Previously, the reward was somewhat exclusive content, gear, and prestige among other things. That's what separated the raiders from the average players. And although, to some extent, that still exists, it has been so diluted that being a "raider" has begun to be far less lucrative than just playing casually. The time invested vs reward ratio has swayed heavily in favor of the casual player, when it should really remain a constant at any level of play. The added time investment, just really isn't worth it as much anymore. I, personally, still find raiding worthwhile, but it, no doubt, has lost a significant amount of its luster compared to the days when I was raiding in Vanilla WoW.