1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    And actually a lot of the newer MMO now also have different difficulty settings....
    They do. Which is why I play none atm

  2. #222
    Herald of the Titans Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoBrando View Post
    Again I don't care about others. I just want a fun and rewarding gaming experience, which WoW sadly fails to provide. But it used too in the past, that's why I am complaining here.
    But it isn't going to change back the way you like anymore, and voicing your opinion is unlikely to change anything, as the opposite voice talks a lot louder.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-08 at 01:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoBrando View Post
    They do. Which is why I play none atm
    Then the "but MMO are not like most games" isn't relevant anymore :P

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    That is going to be hard though....

    I have to be honest, I enjoy getting gear, it is part of the enjoyment.

    If HC gear are cosmetic only, the very first main issue is: it is very subjective. You may like something that I don't, and vice versa. Having cosmetic drop in HC only, if I didn't like the look of the HC set, means I am going to have very little incentive to raid HC (yes gear reward is a huge factor for me, if HC and normal drop gear with same look AND same power, I probably would stop raiding HC as I need the show off factor :P)

    They will have to make HC gear look fucking amazing and most people will love the looks of, and be honest, since TBC I have liked the gear design less and less, hence since Transmog I have always wore my modified red T10 (shammy)
    There is also the issue with gear progression. You are supposed to get stronger each time you kill a boss from loot drops. If no stronger gear then you might as well make heroics Challenge modes that you will never get to feel stronger in.

  4. #224
    Herald of the Titans Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSteveBrule View Post
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh Lord have mercy. Yeah buddy, I get a hard on when I look at my inventory and see those sexy numbers! Yeah baby yeah! LOL
    I care about the stats more than the appearence.

    I always reforge my gear out anyway so those doesn't affect me anyway, but the stats do.

    Also, you have a hardon when looking at people's gear if they are different model then? OK.....



    ---------- Post added 2013-06-08 at 01:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    There is also the issue with gear progression. You are supposed to get stronger each time you kill a boss from loot drops. If no stronger gear then you might as well make heroics Challenge modes that you will never get to feel stronger in.
    That is probably why along with the concern I mention that idea won't work

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    Actually you ARE still a minority before the LFR instant gratification bunch is still far higher in terms of numbers, Cata they brought back the "work for it" and we all know how well it turned out for Blizzard.

    And you can still admire top guild's ilvl, 39 average ilvl is A LOT, getting a new piece of HC gear will barely put your average ilvl up by 1 (if that).

    Back then it was "that looks soooo cool, I want it"
    Now is "That ilvl looks soooo sick, I want it"
    Funny

    Also cata didn't brought the "work fo it" back, sorry. The heroics were quite easy, compared to TBC. The only problem was that the playerbase was so used to Wotlk Aoefests, that they cried how it's hard. In reality it was really easy, especially when you got some gear. I know I am probably a minority now, and it is too late to turn back now for Blizz. But they were obviously doing something very good during TBC.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-08 at 12:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    But it isn't going to change back the way you like anymore, and voicing your opinion is unlikely to change anything, as the opposite voice talks a lot louder.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-08 at 01:51 AM ----------



    Then the "but MMO are not like most games" isn't relevant anymore :P
    True, true. You might notice my post count, I just started psoting here, to vent a bit.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    You do realize players quit or a variety of reasons?
    Players are *always* quitting for a variety of reasons. Players are always joining for a variety of reasons.

    When more are quitting than are joining, the reasons become more limited.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoBrando View Post
    Funny

    Also cata didn't brought the "work fo it" back, sorry. The heroics were quite easy, compared to TBC. The only problem was that the playerbase was so used to Wotlk Aoefests, that they cried how it's hard. In reality it was really easy, especially when you got some gear. I know I am probably a minority now, and it is too late to turn abck now for Blizz. But they were obviously doing something very good during TBC.
    They were easy.

    But the "majority" didn't agree unfortunately, and money talks.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantWave View Post
    Because it's like saying "Here's a book, but we'll only let 5% of people see the last chapter."

    Or at least, it was.
    Bad example in general, because [insert anything] does not translate to any argument with [any game].

    Also, making everything accessible to everyone by your example is like asking for a book like The Lord Of The Rings to use less complex sentences and words, because it leaves out the illiterate (not counting people with disability).

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    But it's a game, not a job. Games aren't supposed to feel like work.
    If the game you're playing feels like work, it's time to pick another one. Not everyone playing this game feels, or felt, that it was similiar to work.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion
    Next time you guys log in, Blizzard should freeze your character, spawn your favourite mount and shoot it in the head. - Mormolyce

  10. #230
    Brawlers guild is an example of exclusive content that doesnt get much complaints along with challenge modes because they offer no form of character advancement. Had they offered character advancement then players who are more interested in the rewards the the activity will cry for nerfs in the name of content while truly having an eye on the rewards. It is sad that this is how the game has to be where instead features like brawlers guild and challenge modes could be used as alternative modes of character advancement separate from raiding. But then it creates another issue, it will pull players away from LFR which is a queue system and less players running LFR doing the kinds of content they enjoy instead would mean LFR would be less successful.

  11. #231
    Brewmaster rederoin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halicia View Post
    Players are *always* quitting for a variety of reasons. Players are always joining for a variety of reasons.

    When more are quitting than are joining, the reasons become more limited.
    You still can't pinpoint the exact reasons those players left, you don't even know if they raid.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by ACES View Post
    We get a 100% drop on the final boss during current progression, and then a reduced 1 or so % drop chance when the content is trivialized
    Firelands says Hi! You could 8man Heroic Rag (10M Heroic) during Dragon Soul. I would consider that pretty "trivial".

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    2) Raiding with only 1 mode of difficulty, and 1 form of raid. Yes im looking at you TBC. Why is it a bad thing to have this content aimed towards players who are on a higher echelon of playing or commitment? Even though only "1%" (insert any other low percentage from thin air here) of the player base raided, the game substantially grew in subscriptions. What was keeping people subscribing, when they "never got to see end game"?
    If you think the reason the game grew in subscribers is because of exclusivity and raiding, you are living in a dream world.

    Many people don't want to realize this, but the only reason WoW got as big as it did was because of two factors.

    1) It was based on a highly popular gaming series from a AAA developer.
    2) It was about 100x easier then everything else out on the market. Quests, quick travel, no death penalty, instances removed group/guild competition on bosses, etc...

    As the game progressed things got more open, and thus more popular. BC was easier then vanilla (25 man raiding logistically was easier then 40 man raiding), and WOTLK was easier then BC. This is where the subscription numbers reached the highest level. Where Blizzard made the mistake was attempting to regress on the curve, by making the opening of Cataclysm HARDER. This is was kicked them in the pants, because they broke the curve.

    They have been suffering from it since.

    You are probably going to say "But Grocalis! MoP lost a ton of people and it's easy!" Yes, it's easier, but it suffers the other grave sin of the casual. Time. MoP took away a lot of the things we once held as convenient. No flying while leveling (not even a tome like WOTLK), no reputations through dungeons, forced gating, currency caps, and huge amount of RNG (bad luck streaks). That is what caused the last drop, because difficulty is not just in the encounter, it's also in how long one has to grind things out to attain his goals. In WOTLK I could get T9 in a weekend, in MoP I can go a whole week without seeing a item drop from LFR.

    That is what is killing the game right now. It has nothing to do with the hardcore, or the difficulty. It has everything to do with Blizzard worrying that we will quit if we consume the content too quickly, not realizing the majority of us will play regardless of us completing the game on our mains. This is why Blizzard pointed out how "casuals are not engaged", the carrot takes to long to get that nibble.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoBrando View Post
    Again I don't care about others. I just want a fun and rewarding gaming experience, which WoW sadly fails to provide. But it used too in the past, that's why I am complaining here.
    Raiding was barely rewarding to begin with. It was all up to merciless lottery multiplied by DKP/EPGP to get anything from the boss. Currently it is magnified more, because of huge ilvl difference between tiers. By your definitions you should have hated TBC because it introduced badge vendors

  15. #235
    Herald of the Titans Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novx View Post
    Firelands says Hi! You could 8man Heroic Rag (10M Heroic) during Dragon Soul. I would consider that pretty "trivial".
    Those were already either up to Raggy HC or close to it during end of FL, probably.

    Those who were barely half way through HC or less by the end of FL, doubt it.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    You do realize players quit or a variety of reasons? I don't even know the amount of breaks I went on because I burned out on WoW.


    The raiding playerbase is a minority(not including LFR). Blizzard have acteally said this. They gave us numbers.
    Which is why they give gear to people who put time into obtaining them, so that those players can progress their characters, or do the brawlers guild, or solo old raid bosses.. or whatever they want to do that does include raiding.
    I do think raiding should stay, but the minority of the current raiding player-base who enjoyed the TBC model should not be catered to, as it affects the non-raiders. The old model was also very alt unfriendly.
    Sorry, but you don't have any data why players quit yourself. Also they always gave gear to people who put in time. Only now you don't have to actually make any effort for it. Which I think is wrong, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree here.

    But I have to agree about the alt thing. During Vanilla/TBC I only played my Warlock. Made a mage and warrior during Wotlk and played all three. But again I think an elegant solution could be found for this isntead of making max level gear proggression lightning fast.

  17. #237
    If someone something is exclusive as a side effect of another goal, like making to challenging, that's one thing, but exclusivity should not be the goal. It's bad business and bad principle for Blizzard to cater to the most spiteful and petty of its player base.
    Last edited by Magpai; 2013-06-08 at 01:04 AM.

  18. #238
    Brewmaster rederoin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoBrando View Post
    Sorry, but you don't have any data why players quit yourself.
    Then why bring it up? Because you don't have it either. So don't assume the TBC model has anything to do with it(the peak was during wrath, by the way).

    Also they always gave gear to people who put in time. Only now you don't have to actually make any effort for it. Which I think is wrong, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree here.
    I have nothing against effort. Making it harder would not be a problem to me, I just don't want to be forced into raiding to do the things I enjoy in WoW.


    But I have to agree about the alt thing. During Vanilla/TBC I only played my Warlock. Made a mage and warrior during Wotlk and played all three. But again I think an elegant solution could be found for this isntead of making max level gear proggression lightning fast.
    Its only fast at the lower Ilvl's. I'd say it would take a really long time to get full 549 gear.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    But it's a game, not a job. Games aren't supposed to feel like work.
    Games should not feel like work, true.

    But if you want to be good at something, you gotta put work into it. Reading is fun. You still had to learn it. Languages and Math are fun to some people (both need to be learned). Swimming is fun. Gotta learn how not to drown. Any sport at all really requires hard work and dedication to become really fun. Playing any instrument is hard work and constant practice. It is only by easying people into the experience that they have fun right away (AND BEHOLD THE INABILITY OF BLIZZARD TO PULL THIS SHIT OFF AFTER YEARS OF SO CALLED VETERAN EXPERIENCE). But they still have to put in hard work if they want to get anywhere.

    So stop pretending games shouldn't require work. Games HAVE to require work, even if it's just your brain, not your body. Even a simple game like Angry Birds requires you to plan which angle you fire at and which bird you use for what. Not counting really old games here. Those are fun but by today's standards they'd get a 1/10.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    Brawlers guild is an example of exclusive content that doesnt get much complaints along with challenge modes because they offer no form of character advancement. Had they offered character advancement then players who are more interested in the rewards the the activity will cry for nerfs in the name of content while truly having an eye on the rewards. It is sad that this is how the game has to be where instead features like brawlers guild and challenge modes could be used as alternative modes of character advancement separate from raiding. But then it creates another issue, it will pull players away from LFR which is a queue system and less players running LFR doing the kinds of content they enjoy instead would mean LFR would be less successful.
    I don't know what Brawler's guild is, but nice point. Like I said before in this thread. When people were crying on the forums during the end of TBC how they want to see Ilidan and kill him, they actually meant "I want Warglaives and Bulwark of Azzinoth". Not all ofc but most of them.

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