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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    Why is Exclusive content a bad thing to some people?

    Because content isn't worth putting in millions of dollars if it's only getting used by a tiny small amount of players. The more players will use it, the more reason is there to spend all those resources on it.

    The ROI on creating a raid that only 0.1% of your customers will be using is minuscule.

    What Return on Investment are you speaking of? The only investment they need to consider is having subscriptions, or not having subscriptions. Thats all that matters in a Pay to Play MMO.

    What people seem to be neglecting with their argument of "spending millions of dollars on developing content for only 1% of the player base" is that it worked for almost 7 years of the game's life to increase subs. By having exclusive content. Its only been in the shift in philosophy that content be inclusive that WoW has lost subscriptions. I don't think you can call that coincidence.
    Lewor responds to Barkloud regarding travel time, and we get this glorious quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewor View Post
    And where did these magical percentages come from? I didn't realise someone's ass also doubled as a calculator.
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  2. #42
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    But that model worked. It saw them achieve the highest amount of subscriptions in the game's history.
    Correlation does not equal causation--you're gonna need some hard data to prove that putting the majority of their budget into a minority demographic is why BC did so well. As FoxHeart noted, WoW saw huge surges during Vanilla and BC for more reasons than just 'the lion's share of development went to raid design and everyone else was told to go sit in the corner and pay for a minority's enjoyment of the game.'

    edit: On top of that, subs peaked during Wrath, which was leaps and bounds more accessible than BC ever dreamed of being even with the huge nerfs to t4, 5, and 6 content that hit in the latter half of Sunwell's lifespan.
    Last edited by Thage; 2013-06-07 at 10:09 PM.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  3. #43
    Well you could say that even what you call 'exclusive' content isn't really that exclusive - because a few patches or an expansion after the release of said content, you will also be able to complete it due to the natural power gain of your character.

    Now you can twist this fact this way or that way...

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    exclusive mounts and titles? Those are a good thing, and I doubt many many are against it.
    Exclusive raids? Those are indeed a bad thing, Why should a large part of the budget be spend on something only 5-10%~ will see?

    They had 2 choices. A) Make less raiding content or B) introduce LFR.
    Why would they have the choice of making less raiding content when they made more raid content in vanilla WoW than any expansion? Lets see, in Vanilla they had

    1) Upper Black Rock Spire
    2) Scholomance
    3) Zul Gurub
    4) Molten Core
    5) Blackwing Lair
    6) Onyxia's Lair
    7) AQ 20
    8) AQ 40
    9) Naxxaramus

    9 Raids, including 4 world boss dragons, and another world boss called Kazzak.

    If having a large part of the budget be spent on only 5-10% of the playerbase was a bad thing, then a) how could they produce so much raid content that even proliferated into TBC, and b) why would subscriptions continue to rise into the highest it has ever been in the game's history despite spending the majority of the budget on only 5-10% of the playerbase?
    Lewor responds to Barkloud regarding travel time, and we get this glorious quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewor View Post
    And where did these magical percentages come from? I didn't realise someone's ass also doubled as a calculator.
    World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
    See you in WoD!

  5. #45
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    Jay: Did you perhaps miss all of Cataclysm where raid design was increasingly-obviously reined in budget-wise? When only 1% of your audience does something, logic dictates that you put the lion's share of your assets into things that get a better return on your investment (in this case, things that more of your audience will see).

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  6. #46
    The people who don't like that items and rewards are 'exclusive' are simply spoilt, jealous and greedy. They want the best and they want it now with as little effort as possible. If you work towards something and are rewarded for it, they will come along with their $15 dollars a month and a sense of entitlement and want it also.

    What's disgusting is how Blizzard have accommodated this turn after turn. This didn't happen overnight, they have slowly done a 180 over the last 4-5 years from limiting rewards to those who try the hardest, to a leave no retard behind system. "But we deserve to see content" I hear the masses cry, orly? Is that because you ran out of content from raiding for tier to tier? The hypocrisy is strong in these ones, yes you deserve to see content but you don't want to actually travel the path to get there, you just want the goodies now.

  7. #47
    My question is different from the question the OP posed;

    'Why do people care about what players they never come into contact with do?'

    Every time I see a thread like this, I just can't come up with an awnser. So, please, enlighten me. Why do you feel the need to have 'exclusive' content? Why don't you ignore people that have nothing to do with you and enjoy the game's end-game content at whichever level you want, be it LFR, normal or heroic? Why do you feel Blizzard should to cater to a small percentage of the game's population while basically giving a big 'Screw you for enjoying the game at your own level instead of spending untold numbers of hours in-game!'?

    Simply put; Whats the drive behind wanting exclusive content besides showing of your e-peen while sitting on a high horse?

    Now, don't get me wrong, I've recently started heroic progression myself. But I don't feel the need to exclude people from seeing content just because they lack skill/time/patience/have 3 kids/[insert random stuff]. Mostly because it doesn't affect me in the slightest. I still get to see all content on the level at which I enjoy most. And I don't need to have an epeen measuring contest by having some form of 'exclusive' content.

    I'm seriously puzzled by this stuff...

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycefli View Post
    Seriously, you think all players should be like *you*. Should be able to put in the same amount of time/investment/skill into this game. Hate to tell you buddy, but not everyone *IS* like you. There are a variety of reasons for this, they could be disabled players, work long hours or have a highly committed family life. "Exclusive" content is utter nonsense, it's bad...well, shame on you: Why do you CARE if some 9 til 5 working stiff gets to play WoW and see the final boss while at the same time juggling his 2+ kids around? Please, don't be ignorant of the real world and demand everything be tuned towards how you want to play the game. These players are not less dedicated because they choose to be, and you make it seem like they are. They STILL want their money's worth and not seeing the bosses is not getting their money's worth.

    Oh yeah, here's your exclusive content: Achievements, higher iLV gear and the SATISFACTION you get for beating the boss on the hardest mode. Also, you get Exclusive mounts.
    You seem really mad that the game was not designed initially for the working man who has a 9-5 job. I was in school full time, with a part time job during TBC. I literally only had pretty much weekends to play, yet I aspired to be the best in the game, and to achieve the best rewards the game had to offer. I killed KJ before Wotlk was released. You can still accomplish great things in the game with little time commitment. You still get your money's worth because nothing in the game was ever gaurenteed to the player. There was some expectation that the player would have to complete attunements or accomplish certain feats to see all the game has to offer.

    Just because you buy Call of Duty doesnt mean you are entitled to be on the last level the moment you turn on the game for the first time.
    Lewor responds to Barkloud regarding travel time, and we get this glorious quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewor View Post
    And where did these magical percentages come from? I didn't realise someone's ass also doubled as a calculator.
    World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
    See you in WoD!

  9. #49
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Because segregation is bad. You waste effort on something that only a small minority will see, instead of putting it into things that the majority of people get to see.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    I guarantee if they did go back to the way things were in BC, subs would bomb. Hard.
    It would certainly weed out all the entitled players who feel it is their god given right to see that content just because they pay a $15 subscription fee.
    Lewor responds to Barkloud regarding travel time, and we get this glorious quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewor View Post
    And where did these magical percentages come from? I didn't realise someone's ass also doubled as a calculator.
    World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
    See you in WoD!

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    9 Raids, including 4 world boss dragons, and another world boss called Kazzak.
    It's quality vs quantity. People whine how Dragon Soul is rehashed content should look at MC and BWL and count how many creature models and wall textures were added into those raids coming from BRD/BRS instances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    If having a large part of the budget be spent on only 5-10% of the playerbase was a bad thing, then a) how could they produce so much raid content that even proliferated into TBC
    My theory is that WoW developers didn't actually know better and started to make a game they wanted without much research. Kaplan, Pardo and Chilton all came from hardcore EQ raid guild background and they naturally put whole lot of effort into hardcore raiding because that's what they liked. Until the realities of business slapped them into face when looking at how bad ROI the raids actually have in development time.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  12. #52
    I like the occasional bone for us.
    Like Ra-den

    It shows that they appreciate us, even though we are ...2% of all players or something.
    Asking for more feels kinda greedy if you ask me.
    I dont think I deserve more attention than the guys doing lfr.
    I already have the content that is acutally fun and not just brainless grinding AND I got better items and prestigue stuff.
    I dont need my personal playground too.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    Wait, we're talking about pet battles? The surprisingly successful minigame using 90% already-developed art assets and a very simply-coded gameplay system (likely reused from/in Hearthstone), created basically as someone's spare time project?
    The way Cory Stockton describes pet battles, there is a lot more development time being put into pet battles than you fabricated here.
    Lewor responds to Barkloud regarding travel time, and we get this glorious quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewor View Post
    And where did these magical percentages come from? I didn't realise someone's ass also doubled as a calculator.
    World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
    See you in WoD!

  14. #54
    Legendary! The Glitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotcha View Post
    The people who don't like that items and rewards are 'exclusive' are simply spoilt, jealous and greedy. They want the best and they want it now with as little effort as possible. If you work towards something and are rewarded for it, they will come along with their $15 dollars a month and a sense of entitlement and want it also.

    What's disgusting is how Blizzard have accommodated this turn after turn. This didn't happen overnight, they have slowly done a 180 over the last 4-5 years from limiting rewards to those who try the hardest, to a leave no retard behind system. "But we deserve to see content" I hear the masses cry, orly? Is that because you ran out of content from raiding for tier to tier? The hypocrisy is strong in these ones, yes you deserve to see content but you don't want to actually travel the path to get there, you just want the goodies now.

    Um how about no?

    I raided in TBC serious raiding, lots of time involved.

    I grew up, other things took priority, I couldn't raid anymore, I understood that, thats just the way it goes, don't have the time = don't get to see the content or reap the rewards, that was fine.

    I still played, just less often, and found alot of the time I came to a bit of a halt in regards to any kind of progression for my toon, wotlk wasn't too bad, I could pug raids now and again, not as much as i wanted but enough to still keep me logging on.

    Cata stopped all that, pugs were few and far between, my characters progression halted. I found little to do at end game as a non raider. My interest in the game started to decline.

    MoP, LFR saved me, I get the progression I want, but not the best rewards for doing so, and that is totally fine for me, I know if I sacrificed my real life to put in the hours into the game like I used to I could get those rewards, however I choose not to and therefore am satisfied with the small progression i can get.

    I can assure you I am not jealous nor greedy or spoilt, I perfectly understand the whole more effort and dedication = better rewards, I just want to have some small form of progression to keep me feeling like my time spent in game is actually worthwhile.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycefli View Post
    Oh yeah and: 2) Raiding with only 1 mode of difficulty, and 1 form of raid. Yes im looking at you TBC. Why is it a bad thing to have this content aimed towards players who are on a higher echelon of playing or commitment? Even though only "1%" (insert any other low percentage from thin air here) of the player base raided, the game substantially grew in subscriptions. What was keeping people subscribing, when they "never got to see end game"?

    Blizzard have stated the reason for most of the sub% losses are from semi-dedicated guilds being burned out, can't do normal's because they are overtuned and LFR is just a nightmare for anyone who is "too good for it". Unless blizzard are, you know, lying - it proves your point wrong. More or less.
    Please quote a source for your blizz "quote" Blizzard has never stated that normal mode raids are overtuned for their intended audience. Just the entitled audience feels that way.
    Lewor responds to Barkloud regarding travel time, and we get this glorious quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewor View Post
    And where did these magical percentages come from? I didn't realise someone's ass also doubled as a calculator.
    World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
    See you in WoD!

  16. #56
    Legendary! The Glitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Please quote a source for your blizz "quote" Blizzard has never stated that normal mode raids are overtuned for their intended audience. Just the entitled audience feels that way.
    Aren't you being a bit *pot/kettle* on this whole entitled thing, because you come across as though you are entitled to the game being a certain way too.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Assuming most subs = most people raiding. You cannot make this argument without proof.
    Well the sub numbers speak for themselves. If in fact most players were not raiding during TBC (which blizzard themselves confirms), how and why would subs continue to rise, and revenue rise with it? If creating those raids, and making them exclusive to players who put in more time and effort to see, wouldn't players feel jaded and jipped that they arent able to see the content and those evil "hardcore raiders" are, and vote with their wallet and just leave?

    Nope. They continued to rise.
    Lewor responds to Barkloud regarding travel time, and we get this glorious quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewor View Post
    And where did these magical percentages come from? I didn't realise someone's ass also doubled as a calculator.
    World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
    See you in WoD!

  18. #58
    I am Murloc! Shampro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reavyn View Post
    My question is different from the question the OP posed;

    'Why do people care about what players they never come into contact with do?'

    Every time I see a thread like this, I just can't come up with an awnser. So, please, enlighten me. Why do you feel the need to have 'exclusive' content? Why don't you ignore people that have nothing to do with you and enjoy the game's end-game content at whichever level you want, be it LFR, normal or heroic? Why do you feel Blizzard should to cater to a small percentage of the game's population while basically giving a big 'Screw you for enjoying the game at your own level instead of spending untold numbers of hours in-game!'?

    Simply put; Whats the drive behind wanting exclusive content besides showing of your e-peen while sitting on a high horse?

    Now, don't get me wrong, I've recently started heroic progression myself. But I don't feel the need to exclude people from seeing content just because they lack skill/time/patience/have 3 kids/[insert random stuff]. Mostly because it doesn't affect me in the slightest. I still get to see all content on the level at which I enjoy most. And I don't need to have an epeen measuring contest by having some form of 'exclusive' content.

    I'm seriously puzzled by this stuff...
    I can bet that he wont awnser your question. Because he himself doesnt know. Im in the same position you are, recently started Heroic progression in ToT and I cant give a RATS ASS if I see >insert name here< with some random LFR gear, it doesn't affect me in ANY damn way. It just doesn't.

    But like I said, I bet he will ignore your post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewor View Post
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    Gamers today: Shitty WoW comments everywhere else but Thottbot.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by rayden54 View Post
    Exclusive is great when you're the one it's exclusive TO. It's not so great when you're the one being excluded.

    Edit: Not only that, I don't want to end up paying so someone else can do the content. If you want to exclude me, fine, but I better not get charged for it anyway.
    You had equal access to the content back then as anyone else had. Where is the issue?
    Lewor responds to Barkloud regarding travel time, and we get this glorious quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewor View Post
    And where did these magical percentages come from? I didn't realise someone's ass also doubled as a calculator.
    World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
    See you in WoD!

  20. #60
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    The way Cory Stockton describes pet battles, there is a lot more development time being put into pet battles than you fabricated here.
    There is now because they proved far more popular than anticipated. During MoP development it was basically just a side-project the UI and Art teams put together to give people something fun to do when they were bored--you can see attention to pet battles ramp up over time since release and the lists of balanced abilities and stats growing as the patches go on.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

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