This week on my weekly podcast show, here, is Subway coffee better than regular coffee? ehhhh
Some people will burn through the content regardless its always been like that. (I know a lot of guys who burn through it) I used to my self but now i'm mainly doing fun stuff and will clear ToT LFR when my friend reaches max level so I don't get sick of it waiting.
I will be glad when flex raiding is out as I will be tempted to give it a go. the guys I play with are not really normal/heroic raiding material but can easily complete LFR so I want them to give flex a whirl and see how it goes.
I do think LFR and such can do with improvements to those features.
However, its safer to say that the entire direction change in game-design is much more likely to be a major factor in explaining the large amount of players unsubbing. LFR and LFD are part of that game-design direction and therefore can be held to account from this correlation.
The game-design direction can also include other things such as, Pandas, childish artwork, simplification of talent trees, homogenisation, installation of more queing systems etc etc.
On the one hand yes the game had the most subscribers prior to this system. On the other we know that the games market has changed a lot since then. For instance we have an abundance of free to play games and MMOs. So there is a lot more competition that you can play for free which will entice some people in. There are a lot of factors though so its hard to say what the true cause of the lost subs are. I for one think its a combination of factors.
Burning through content too quickly for some, daily reputation being a major barrier early mop, lack of alt friendly features (tied to daily rep some what) F2P market growing a lot and general burn out from some wow customers.
Put them together and you have a possible reason for the huge sub loss.
LFR and LFD did prove to show that a lot of people who did not raid prior to this were now raiding. So it does serve a purpose. On the other hand did it contribute to player fatigue or also as importantly did a lot of casual players think ok I beat the game and quit. It's an open question. For me its a great feature I can login and get a raid/dungeon/scenario when ever I want with little effort. On the other I think LFR was a bit too easy for me and am looking forward to Flex to give me a bit more of a challenge (as much as I can get with some of my friends who are bad at this sort of thing).
I think personally LFR and LFD are good features and just need some adjustments to make them last longer content wise (so people don't wtf pwn and burn through it too quickly) and to try and offer incentives to step up to the other raiding tiers for people who have never tried raiding and want to make that step up.
---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 12:47 PM ----------
As for queueing systems, I can see what you mean but its a double edged sword. I for one like the fact I can queue up for a dungeon and raid and get on with doing stuff while I wait for a group to be found. It was more productive than sitting in trade chat trying to get a group (which could be faster than waiting in a queue sometimes)
One point worth adding is that Taurens (Minotaurs) and Gnomes do actually have historical and traditional places within fantasy RPG... Pandas on the otherhand had only one correlation in modern fantasy and that was KungFu Panda. Like it or not, that connection was and will continue to be thrown at the Wow direction.
I'd argue that the biggest change affecting "casuals" in MoP has been a reduction in the benefit/time ratio. The game simply became grindier. Look at the VP payout, for example. Blizzard confused "I have nothing to do!" with "I want to have to do more!" It should be no surprise that some casual players didn't like this: their game suddenly became more expensive (in time, which is the dominant cost) to play.
Questing I think has been handled great but sometimes its a bit TOO linear. Flightpaths whats exactly wrong with them? Don't tell me you want Vanilla mode back on where you have to get off at each stop and then hop back on again.... As far as I know you still have to locate the flight paths as you did before in pandaria.
Flying mounts, yeh pandoras box has been opened since TBC. Honestly if they disallowed it in wrath and cata we would not have this problem. For outlands it made sense to include them as the place was designed for their use. Now it does make it feel cheap (yeh its fucking convenient though!)
The old dungeons and raids so far no old raid has been remade aside Nax 2.0 and that I can see why it was remade as it fits with Arthas and ofc it was hardly seen in Vanilla. As for old dungeons, I do agree we should have more new heroic dungeons than retuned existing ones. I do however think it was right to re-tune those dungeons for the lower levels to make them better.
Crafting for me has always been rubbish I do like the fact blacksmithing got the old TBC weapons and a chance to remake them in the thunder forge (currently made one at 476 level for my brother) but yeh professions require more work.
U dont need to address every point i bring up, theyre just examples! lol
Im simply regurgitating arguments that can be found all over these forums concerning changes in the game since Wrath which has arguably simplified the game. I was making the connection that LFR and LFD should be discussed in this context and not on their own... LFR and LFD cannot be held accountable for sub-losses on their own... theyre part of a much larger direction change in game-design from Blizzard.
Thats my point.
NOTE: flightpaths, the fact theyve added loads more to the map is another indication of simplification to the game overall.
Entitlement. It began when people began thinking that their subscription fee entitled them to see/do everything in the game, rather than merely granting them access to a server, the right to make an avatar, enter the world and progress in accordance with one's own merits. This mindset is fortunately rarely encountered beyond MMORPGs.
If you cannot command, then you must obey. - Prince Nuada
You can find all kinds of correlations and claim those as causation. For example, rise of f2p model correlates with a fall of WoW's subs, therefore f2p caused WoW's subs. Your line of thinking is completely useless.On the one hand yes the game had the most subscribers prior to this system. On the other we know that the games market has changed a lot since then. For instance we have an abundance of free to play games and MMOs. So there is a lot more competition that you can play for free which will entice some people in. There are a lot of factors though so its hard to say what the true cause of the lost subs are. I for one think its a combination of factors.
Depends how you define "raiding". Personally I don't consider LFR raiding since it doesn't match most of the characteristics I associate with the TBC style raiding. You're in a 25 man instance with some bosses that drop purples, but that's really a superficial similarity. Aspects like building and leading a team over an extended period to progressively make it further and further into the instance are completely missing.LFR and LFD did prove to show that a lot of people who did not raid prior to this were now raiding. So it does serve a purpose. On the other hand did it contribute to player fatigue or also as importantly did a lot of casual players think ok I beat the game and quit. It's an open question. For me its a great feature I can login and get a raid/dungeon/scenario when ever I want with little effort. On the other I think LFR was a bit too easy for me and am looking forward to Flex to give me a bit more of a challenge (as much as I can get with some of my friends who are bad at this sort of thing).
Yes it had larger subs prior to LFR thing is LFR came out with dragon soul and Cata was losing subs with a FAR more hardcore setup than wrath had. The raids and dungeons prior to the nerfs were brutal compared to anything in wrath. Hardmodes in wrath aside that is. So LFR is not the proof that the game was more popular as the decline happened prior to LFR its just continued that downward trend afterwards.
My line of thinking is not useless as you've not disproven or proven anything. Like I said I think theres a few factors that accounts for sub falls but regardless its all opinion. The fact more F2p games exist and are very popular gives some ammunition to this theory.
I define raiding by playing with friends in large groups. LFR allows me to "raid" but not to the level I used to prior. A lot of people never raided prior to the implementation of LFR. For good or bad it has allowed more people to raid than ever before. It in my eyes is the same as any other game with a difficulty level. You choose between easy medium and hard. Same thing in wow. I am hoping flex gives me more of a challenge but still allowing me to play with my friends. I won't ever go back to hardcore raiding as I dont fancy putting that much effort into raiding anymore (by effort I mean time).
Raiding is one of those things though some people think only "the super cool hardcore are allowed" Well if thats the case since the super hardcore make up a vastly smaller amount then raids should receive the smallest budget. Then leveling/questing can receive more as can dungeons etc. This would be a disaster for those people wishing to raid.
Exclusive content game-design means that it doesnt matter if they budget so much towards the endgame raiding because its the exclusivity of those raids within the game which adds overall value to the game itself. In otherwords, the fact that there is an almost unreachable finale to the expansion actually keeps more players content than allowing everyone to 'see' all of this content (through something like LFR).
Exclusive content gives everyone something to aim at for the duration of the entire expansion. LFR is proving that spoonfeeding the content to everyone without asking them to perform any effort whatsoever is devaluing the content.
Thats my opinion anyway...
Anecdotal "data": Many of my guildmates left WoW in Cata to play SWTOR for a change of pace. Few have returned to WoW. Fewer still have stayed with SWTOR -- altogether, they've simply moved on to other things. None of this was caused by LFR.
A Farewell to Pre-Cataclysm Azeroth (video)
If you cannot command, then you must obey. - Prince Nuada
The voice of "I pay the same money, I want the same shit" is louder than the voice suggesting otherwise.
It's sad that's the way it is though.
As i said before raids cannot justify having THAT large a budget. You would either have to take that budget away from raids and put it into content others will play (lets face if you're not leveling and at max level you will want something to do) Thankfuly rather than take away raid budget and reducing quality they instead went the route of opening up raids to more players. Of course this won't make everyone happy. I think with time they can further adjust it to hit that sweet spot in raiding where we can get more people raiding and for longer.
For me I do LFR as I choose not to donate a large portion of my time to heroic raiding like i used (part IRL stuff part not wanting to put that much effort into it) while I know LFR is quite easy and have not done much of ToT, I do like the fact I can pick it up when I want. Transmog does suck up a lot of my time though bloody thing that it is.