Why is Exclusive content a bad thing to some people?

[nekobaka]

Or that LFR is enabling most players to escape something they find repulsive. Look at it -- it gives much better gear, but players still avoid it in preference to the widely forum-reviled LFR. In other words, it's viewed as MUCH WORSE than LFR by most players.

Why exactly should players who have made this choice think saving traditional raiding is a worthwhile goal?

and add this

You do know, if you took items out of LFR, most people would just do LFR once, maybe twice, and then never, ever do it again? That's not a very good idea :x

So in other words even LFR is not really liked for the experience of the content but rather the rewards. Move the rewards else where and something else becomes largely successful while LFR crashes.

[Ferocity]

Some people just act like they are "special".
If they pay the same money, they should get the same content and rewards.
I could compare that with premium money at work. They should get same premium even if they have not done sh*t.
And blizzard accept such design - makes me sad.

It is funny comparison, as I know how it usually happens from other side of things. When there is always someone who works overtime on purpose, or makes illusion of doing a lot of work and demands higher salary for that - such situations are far from common. Especially funny when such demands are backed up with destructive activity within company, and nothing really beneficial for it. Funny, how this reminds the situation in WoW. In terms of behavior - it is basically same.

Please, before comparing video game with real-life, make sure you actually know how real-life works.

[Geckoo]

I raid heroics and i think there needs to be exclusive contents just as the game needs to have easy access content, both worlds need their share.

The problem at the end is that we are raiding the same raid, same theme, same history, same boss with slightly different mechanics and more numbers in general, same loot with just higher ilvl and different color... a title? achievement? in a game full of titles and achievements the value of this is meaningless. Mounts are nice rewards, but in ToT there is no guild heroic reward at all, there is no exclusive mount at the end of the content... just the meta achievement that implies almost all heroic bosses, and that's nice, but not enough.

Is not something in the lines of "i don't want that LFR boy to have my shinies", not at all, the LFR boy deserves his reward according to the level he is playing, but so do i and i just don't feel it's enough reward at this time.

The perfect example is the legendary quest, i don't have any problem with it being possible to complete by just playing LFR, but there has to be some advantage for those doing it on normal and more for those doing it on heroic. We can all have it at the end, that's just fine!

Heroic rewards need to be more than just a simple recolor with higher ilvl, the raid itself should offer something else... Ra-Den (but working as intended ) should be something pretty common in heroic raiding and not just one bonus boss at the end.

[Belisaurio]

91 pages...but hey, there is no problem in WoW.

/joke
I can't play more than 3 hours a week and I pay the same like you. I don't care of Raids or PvP and my top game is to be rich (gold), have a lot of mounts and pets.
Can I've got all your ingame gold, plis? With all your pets and mounts too. Maybe Bizzard can put less stats in battle-pets and reduce movements speed in mounts If you want, because you worked hard adquiring that things.
/end_joke

P.D: Don't go mad, but all arguments here can support my joke like they are supporting LFR.

[khalltusk]

I raid heroics and i think there needs to be exclusive contents just as the game needs to have easy access content, both worlds need their share.

The problem at the end is that we are raiding the same raid, same theme, same history, same boss with slightly different mechanics and more numbers in general, same loot with just higher ilvl and different color... a title? achievement? in a game full of titles and achievements the value of this is meaningless. Mounts are nice rewards, but in ToT there is no guild heroic reward at all, there is no exclusive mount at the end of the content... just the meta achievement that implies almost all heroic bosses, and that's nice, but not enough.

Is not something in the lines of "i don't want that LFR boy to have my shinies", not at all, the LFR boy deserves his reward according to the level he is playing, but so do i and i just don't feel it's enough reward at this time.

The perfect example is the legendary quest, i don't have any problem with it being possible to complete by just playing LFR, but there has to be some advantage for those doing it on normal and more for those doing it on heroic. We can all have it at the end, that's just fine!

Heroic rewards need to be more than just a simple recolor with higher ilvl, the raid itself should offer something else... Ra-Den (but working as intended ) should be something pretty common in heroic raiding and not just one bonus boss at the end.

I agree with you on Heroic content in the shape of Extra bosses.

Heroic only bosses or phases should be put in on every tier imo. So say they design the raid and then once they've got the main bosses in add in an extra boss and put it as heroic only or if you dont want another boss for one tier put in a phase or two on some of the other bosses to give them something unique.

this does not detract from normal/lfr/flex raiding as its something _EXTRA_ for people who want the challenge. Think of it like cut scenes on hard difficulty in most games. you get that tiny bit of a reward for going the extra mile. I think that with maybe new gear items for these difficulty levels would give people enough incentive to give it a try. It will still be smaller than LFR/Flex but it should keep the numbers healthy.

[vesseblah]

Do u really want to bash an entire class (albeit the lowest played class in Wow)?

How can u say that Rogues were 'boosted' to get their legendaries?

Rogue alts were boosted through Dragon Soul to get their legendaries in my guild just because there was only one rogue main. Only for the slight chance that they might be totally OP once geared with the orange pixels.

The main point I was trying to say is that LFR (and normal/heroic mode) players who get their legendaries in 5.4 put in hundred times more effort than every single wlk/cata heroic raider who got theirs by luck of the random drop. Personal effort is better in every way than the old way of guild drama. Except for those few classes like rogues who got freebies in BT and DS.

And what comes to "least played" thing... Handing out free legendaries is the most fucked up way to fix that thing, don't you think?

[Adamas102]

I agree with you on Heroic content in the shape of Extra bosses.

Heroic only bosses or phases should be put in on every tier imo. So say they design the raid and then once they've got the main bosses in add in an extra boss and put it as heroic only or if you dont want another boss for one tier put in a phase or two on some of the other bosses to give them something unique.

this does not detract from normal/lfr/flex raiding as its something _EXTRA_ for people who want the challenge. Think of it like cut scenes on hard difficulty in most games. you get that tiny bit of a reward for going the extra mile. I think that with maybe new gear items for these difficulty levels would give people enough incentive to give it a try. It will still be smaller than LFR/Flex but it should keep the numbers healthy.

I agree with this. I think bosses such as Algalon and Sinestra worked just fine. That being said, I don't think bosses like this (or any other type of content, such as gear, mounts, or titles) should be removed when the encounter is trivialized simply in the name of exclusivity.

[khalltusk]

Agree they should remain, when a tier has been surpassed they should remain.

The only thing that should change should be achievements (like ahead of the curve etc) so its nothing major that people can no longer attain but its something that the people who did it will have as a reward.

Mounts should go from 100% drop rate on heroic kills to 1% rare drop rate so it remains rare but not unobtainable gear and other stuff should remains as it is as its redundant by that point anyway.

[Deleted]

Rogue alts were boosted through Dragon Soul to get their legendaries in my guild just because there was only one rogue main. Only for the slight chance that they might be totally OP once geared with the orange pixels.

what is wrong with this?

Guilds taking alts through raiding is part of how guilds work... this is EXACTLY what happens for every other legendary too. Guilds help their members obtain legendaries... why is this a problem?

The main point I was trying to say is that LFR (and normal/heroic mode) players who get their legendaries in 5.4 put in hundred times more effort than every single wlk/cata heroic raider who got theirs by luck of the random drop. Personal effort is better in every way than the old way of guild drama. Except for those few classes like rogues who got freebies in BT and DS.

Legendaries were only random drop in Wrath... wtf!?!?

The Ulduar legendary Val'anyr took months of raiding Ulduar and wasnt random drop.

The ICC legendary Shadowmourne took months of running ICC and also wasnt random drop.

So how on earth can u say that LFR raiders put in more effort for their legendaries?!?!?!?!

Thats just ridiculous, its not true and it shows u know NOTHING about raiding.

Legendaries have always demanded massive investments of time to obtain. It looks to me like LFR QQing yet again that they have to actually put in a little effort to get a reward.

The only random drop legendaries were in TBC and even they were from fights which were extremely tough when the content was current. Warglaives dropping from Illidan, the final boss of the expansion, for example.

[khalltusk]

what is wrong with this?

Guilds taking alts through raiding is part of how guilds work... this is EXACTLY what happens for every other legendary too. Guilds help their members obtain legendaries... why is this a problem?




Legendaries were only random drop in Wrath... wtf!?!?

The Ulduar legendary Val'anyr took months of raiding Ulduar and wasnt random drop.

The ICC legendary Shadowmourne took months of running ICC and also wasnt random drop.

So how on earth can u say that LFR raiders put in more effort for their legendaries?!?!?!?!

Thats just ridiculous, its not true and it shows u know NOTHING about raiding.

Legendaries have always demanded massive investments of time to obtain. It looks to me like LFR QQing yet again that they have to actually put in a little effort to get a reward.

The only random drop legendaries were in TBC and even they were from fights which were extremely tough when the content was current. Warglaives dropping from Illidan, the final boss of the expansion, for example.

The Ulduar legendary is random drop (the fragments part). But it did require a fair bit of grinding to get and required yogg to be build with 3 lights if I recall. Legendary now each section takes just as much effort as that did if not maybe a bit more but the entire chain from beginning to end is a real effort and tbh I think its a great idea.

[Deleted]

The Ulduar legendary is random drop (the fragments part). But it did require a fair bit of grinding to get and required yogg to be build with 3 lights if I recall. Legendary now each section takes just as much effort as that did if not maybe a bit more but the entire chain from beginning to end is a real effort and tbh I think its a great idea.

U can add the DS daggers to the 'random' drops.

But theyre not random!!! lol

Theyre farmable and it takes a long time to get them. Vesseblah was saying that the current legendaries r much more difficult to get because u need to invest loads MORE time to get them... thats totally not the case. All of the legendaries i have mentioned also need loads of time invested to obtain... theyre not different at all!

Legendaries are still a grind, even if dependant on random drop parts, theyre not random drops like vesseblah was saying. That was TBC.

Basically hes wrong and talking complete horseshit.

[khalltusk]

U can add the DS daggers to the 'random' drops.

But theyre not random!!! lol

Theyre farmable and it takes a long time to get them. Vesseblah was saying that the current legendaries r much more difficult to get because u need to invest loads MORE time to get them... thats totally not the case. All of the legendaries i have mentioned also need loads of time invested to obtain... theyre not different at all!

Legendaries are still a grind, even if dependant on random drop parts, theyre not random drops like vesseblah was saying. That was TBC.

Basically hes wrong and talking complete horseshit.

Basically all the legendary items require some sort of drop rate.

The only ones that are purely % drop and require no additional effort than killing the boss it drops from are,

Glaives from BT and Bow from SWP. Thats it 2 legendary items that required no long quest chain no crafting no cash spent on them to create. Just simply killing the boss (as hard as it was) was enough.

Thunderfury while requiring 2 random drops also required the bars to be made a huge grind and ofc killing rag for the quest item. Eye of rag is a drop but requires the mace to combine with it and the mace required drops from golemag to craft the bloody thing + all the other materials.

Atiesh had a load of random drops to aquire before getting the head and base and cleansing it via the boss in strat I think.

Glaives/bow already mentioned,

The wrath ones were a mix of quests and random drops dragon soul ones I never did so won't comment. Mop legendary I would say is the grindiest of them all as it has so many parts and we still dont know what the final part is.

Each part its own is as grindy as the other legendary items. Put together its the grindiest of them all but it also has the best build up to the making of it imo.

[Deleted]

@Khalltusk

Ur telling me what i already know... go read what vesseblah posted and address his misinformed rubbish. Because HES the one who doesnt understand how old legendaries were obtained.

[khalltusk]

@Khalltusk

Ur telling me what i already know... go read what vesseblah posted and address his misinformed rubbish. Because HES the one who doesnt understand how old legendaries were obtained.

I know I am agreeing with you and spelling it out for the poor souls who dont understand

[Holtzmann]

92 pages of basically circular argument... this thread is not going anywhere...

[Deleted]

92 pages of basically circular argument... this thread is not going anywhere...

Thats what forums are for... discussion.

[Holtzmann]

Thats what forums are for... discussion.

Yeah, sure. But there's a difference between an evolving debate and people just stating their points of view over and over and no side conceding. There have been arguments here that were repeated literally every 2 pages, with essentially the same rebuttals in the following 2 pages, followed by more repeated arguments.

I think this thread's only credit is that people haven't resorted to too many personal insults, otherwise it would have been locked very quickly.

[khalltusk]

Yeah, sure. But there's a difference between an evolving debate and people just stating their points of view over and over and no side conceding. There have been arguments here that were repeated literally every 2 pages, with essentially the same rebuttals in the following 2 pages, followed by more repeated arguments.

I think this thread's only credit is that people haven't resorted to too many personal insults, otherwise it would have been locked very quickly.

Welcome to the internet I guess?

I am quite enjoying the debate. Some people have interesting views on the subject.

[Holtzmann]

Welcome to the internet I guess?

I am quite enjoying the debate. Some people have interesting views on the subject.

Read back a dozen pages or so, you'll see the same views being expressed in eerily similar ways. :P

I guess I'm just tired of the thread. As I said before, this entire subject feels far more like a storm in a teacup supported by fallacious arguments than a true issue. But well... if you're having fun, then enjoy! I'll be here, wondering if I should start playing my Warrior again (nope, not in raids) because I'm quite interested in the changes in the PTR. :P

[khalltusk]

Read back a dozen pages or so, you'll see the same views being expressed in eerily similar ways. :P

I guess I'm just tired of the thread. As I said before, this entire subject feels far more like a storm in a teacup supported by fallacious arguments than a true issue. But well... if you're having fun, then enjoy! I'll be here, wondering if I should start playing my Warrior again (nope, not in raids) because I'm quite interested in the changes in the PTR. :P

Been posting a long time in this thread. I've seen it all!

I'm still trying to level my shaman got into valley of the four winds and I suddenly have the urge to level my pet battle team :/