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  1. #141
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    I don't really think Joel saw Ellie as a replacement daughter. I don't think he would have allowed her to do so much if he saw her as a daughter. It was a guardian relationship; his job was to protect her. Then, yes, platonic feelings grew, but it was more about trust I think. Anyway, the end to me was Ellie showing her acceptance. She didn't believe it, obviously, but didn't fight it or make any attempts to go back. She wants to stay with Joel despite it all.
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  2. #142
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    Definately loving this game so far! I cannot stand shooters, but this game is just amazing. I especially love the real life survival tactics and the difficulty. It's not just a 'shoot shoot win' scenario. You actually have to think on how to kill the infected, hunters, or military. Absolutely amazing story with shocking moments throughout the entire game. You'll NEVER get bored!
    I cried alone every single night. It felt like every day that passed here stole another piece of my real life away. After i cried, I’d go and fight as hard as I could. My only thought was winning, moving forward, and getting stronger. — Asuna Yuuki

  3. #143
    Does Joel bother anyone? He's supposed to be the hero, but damn, he is so brutal, it's like he's a monster. He shows no mercy at all to anyone.
    "The Naxxramas Warrior. Eternal slayer of the Orcs."

  4. #144
    Joel is a softie at heart I think; my favorite character by far.

    He has to make some tough decisions.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salandrin View Post
    Does Joel bother anyone? He's supposed to be the hero, but damn, he is so brutal, it's like he's a monster. He shows no mercy at all to anyone.
    I think it was intentional that he's more of the antihero type. He's not heroic, he's merely the protagonist in this story. He shows no mercy because he expects none, in his world where almost everything, human and infected alike, is a threat to his continued survival. He definitely is a bit of a monster, we just feel for him because we can see how he turned out that way. I mean geez, the prologue hit me so hard, and that was just ten minutes. He's gone through 20 years of hell at the point where you start the actual game.

  6. #146
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salandrin View Post
    Does Joel bother anyone? He's supposed to be the hero, but damn, he is so brutal, it's like he's a monster. He shows no mercy at all to anyone.
    It bothers me for sure, but I think he was spot on with his argument with Tess.

    "We're shitty people Joel, it's been that way for a long time."
    "No, we are SURVIVORS."
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  7. #147
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    He's a pretty dark protagonist, but he didn't cross the line until he executed Marlene IMO.
    Last edited by Zaelsino; 2013-06-28 at 11:41 AM.

  8. #148
    Legendary! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    He's a pretty dark protagonist, but he didn't cross the line until he executed Marlene IMO.
    I think he crossed the line near the end when he shot one of guys in the balls up close with a gun, was a bit of a brutal scene

  9. #149
    Titan unholytestament's Avatar
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    Funny how many people call out Joel's actions but don't seem to blink at the Fireflies'.

    Ignoring the whole "from zero to brain surgery" rush that facilitates the final scene, we first meet the group of Fireflies at the climax where two of them approach and attack a man who has just dragged a girl out of water and is trying to resuscitate her. Pretty shitty move to attack a man who is trying to save a girl's life, right? Then there's Marlene who clearly doesn't give a shit that a relationship has formed between Joel and Ellie. She tells him to get out and orders him be shot if he doesn't cooperate. And then there's the soldier just itching for a chance to shoot Joel...

    The Fireflies are clearly not good people. They might have that one grand ideal, but I think they exemplify the axiom that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I'm not saying they deserved to die, but they weren't the innocent victims a lot people seem to be making them out to be.
    Some would ask
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  10. #150
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    Hey guys quick question about this game. How good is the actual gameplay? I have no interest currently in buying a game for just story as I have a big enough back catalogue of books , manga and anime. Is the gameplay better then something like say uncharted which I honestly struggled to enjoy down to how bad the combat and bosses were over all or is the gameplay vastly improved over it?

  11. #151
    Titan unholytestament's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiif View Post
    Hey guys quick question about this game. How good is the actual gameplay? I have no interest currently in buying a game for just story as I have a big enough back catalogue of books , manga and anime. Is the gameplay better then something like say uncharted which I honestly struggled to enjoy down to how bad the combat and bosses were over all or is the gameplay vastly improved over it?
    It has a lot in common with Uncharted, so you may not like it. Though a lot of encounters in The Last of Us can be completely avoided if you are stealthy enough.
    Some would ask
    "How could a perfect God create a universe with so much that is evil?"
    They have missed a greater conundrum
    "Why would a perfect God create a universe at all?"

  12. #152
    I can't get enough of the Let's Plays of this game, loving them.

  13. #153
    Scarab Lord Puck's Avatar
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    I don't think Joel crossed any lines.

    He's right after all, if he let Marlene go she would have came after him, she and her fireflies would have probably killed everyone in Tommies town to get Ellie. I also don't recall him killing any innocents and there were plenty of times he was shown being compassionate to people like Bill. I think he is a very Grim person but I wouldn't say he comes close to anything like a Monster.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Salandrin View Post
    Does Joel bother anyone? He's supposed to be the hero, but damn, he is so brutal, it's like he's a monster. He shows no mercy at all to anyone.
    He is an Antihero. He's like Illidan from WC3 if you will. That's why I like him so much, most protagonists in games are just "I do this because it's the right thing to do, I'm never wrong and I have no personal desires beside doing what is right". That is so bland, so plain, so unimaginitive and unrealistic. Joel is realistic, I like that.

  15. #155
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Don't forget spoiler tags! The game is still very fresh and I'd hate for it to be spoiled for anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMOSam
    I can't get enough of the Let's Plays of this game, loving them.
    I'm enjoying PewDiePie's Let's Play, even though I don't generally like his videos.
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  16. #156
    Elemental Lord Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    Funny how many people call out Joel's actions but don't seem to blink at the Fireflies'.

    Ignoring the whole "from zero to brain surgery" rush that facilitates the final scene, we first meet the group of Fireflies at the climax where two of them approach and attack a man who has just dragged a girl out of water and is trying to resuscitate her. Pretty shitty move to attack a man who is trying to save a girl's life, right? Then there's Marlene who clearly doesn't give a shit that a relationship has formed between Joel and Ellie. She tells him to get out and orders him be shot if he doesn't cooperate. And then there's the soldier just itching for a chance to shoot Joel...

    The Fireflies are clearly not good people. They might have that one grand ideal, but I think they exemplify the axiom that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I'm not saying they deserved to die, but they weren't the innocent victims a lot people seem to be making them out to be.
    I don't think it needs to be said that the Fireflies are not good people. But good is relative. It depends on the individuals perception or wrong or right. Mind you this is an "every man for themselves" kind of world people are living in. This isn't a few months after the infection broke loose. This is after 20 years! A lot of shit has gone down that we haven't seen or heard i'm sure. 20 years is a long enough time to harden someone and make you just a shell of your former self.

    "Ignoring the whole "from zero to brain surgery" rush that facilitates the final scene"
    This was slowly introduced throughout the University scene on forward.


    "we first meet the group of Fireflies at the climax where two of them approach and attack a man who has just dragged a girl out of water and is trying to resuscitate he"
    "He ain't even hurt" Same situation. In this sort of scenario, you have to assume the worst. She could have been a decoy which intends to pull at your heart and let you leave your guard down.


    "Then there's Marlene who clearly doesn't give a shit that a relationship has formed between Joel and Ellie"
    This isn't exactly true. She does care, she completely understands what he is going through, but that is nothing compared to the 13 years she spent with Ellie, Joel has spent 1 year. But Marlene feels the a sacrifice of a few for the better of many is more important. Can't say she is wrong, can't say she is right. It depends on your own personal perception of what is right and what is wrong.


    "She tells him to get out and orders him be shot if he doesn't cooperate."
    Knowing how Joel must feel, and knowing that Joel is a well trained killer and he is a dangerous man, she was taking precautions in case his feelings drove him to do the exact thing he ended up doing.


    "And then there's the soldier just itching for a chance to shoot Joel..."
    I got nothing for you here, this guy was just a dick. lol


    "The Fireflies are clearly not good people. They might have that one grand ideal, but I think they exemplify the axiom that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I'm not saying they deserved to die, but they weren't the innocent victims a lot people seem to be making them out to be."
    Not sure how many people are really saying they are victims at all. But again, right and wrong is up to the individual. Personally, If I was in Marlene's position, i'd prolly have done the same, likewise if I was in Joel's position.

    Walk a mile in a man's shoes.....

  17. #157
    I didn't think any game would ever get me more emotionally engrossed than Final Fantasy 8, but this did it. What a moving story.

    And since I don't know how to add the spoiler block, I won't add much, except to say that I think the main character was right.

  18. #158
    Legendary! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    I didn't think any game would ever get me more emotionally engrossed than Final Fantasy 8, but this did it. What a moving story.

    And since I don't know how to add the spoiler block, I won't add much, except to say that I think the main character was right.
    [spoiler ] [ /spoiler] Insert message in between and remove spaces if you want to discuss the game without spoiling.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiif View Post
    Hey guys quick question about this game. How good is the actual gameplay? I have no interest currently in buying a game for just story as I have a big enough back catalogue of books , manga and anime. Is the gameplay better then something like say uncharted which I honestly struggled to enjoy down to how bad the combat and bosses were over all or is the gameplay vastly improved over it?
    The controls are very similar to Uncharted, but the game plays entirely different. If that makes any sense. Unlike in Uncharted, you have very little ammo (assuming you're not playing on Easy, because yeah on Easy you get enough ammo to gun everything in your path down), so you have to resort a lot more to sneaking around.

    And even then if your cover is blown while sneaking, it won't be like Uncharted where you just sit behind cover while gunning down 30 men, but rather you'll want to move around without being seen (Unlike in Uncharted, the AI doesn't see through walls) so you can flank enemies from the sides or even from behind. Alternatively, hide and continue sneaking around. There's also never an unrealistic amount of enemies around. If you see 5 enemies patrolling the area, chances are there really are only 5 enemies even when open combat breaks out. You won't suddenly get ambushed by two dozen enemies appearing out of nowhere.

  20. #160
    Titan unholytestament's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    "Ignoring the whole "from zero to brain surgery" rush that facilitates the final scene"
    This was slowly introduced throughout the University scene on forward.
    Um... What? We are given plenty of info on them working on a cure, but we aren't given anything beforehand that would explain why they would rush into brain surgery the second Ellie arrives. And the only excuse we're given afterwards is that Marlene just thinks it's easier on Ellie to not be woken up and then taken to surgery later.
    "we first meet the group of Fireflies at the climax where two of them approach and attack a man who has just dragged a girl out of water and is trying to resuscitate he"
    "He ain't even hurt" Same situation. In this sort of scenario, you have to assume the worst. She could have been a decoy which intends to pull at your heart and let you leave your guard down.
    There's a big difference between those two situations. If they were really expecting it to be a trap they should never have closed the distance between them. They had high powered assault weapons as well as the element of surprise.
    "She tells him to get out and orders him be shot if he doesn't cooperate."
    Knowing how Joel must feel, and knowing that Joel is a well trained killer and he is a dangerous man, she was taking precautions in case his feelings drove him to do the exact thing he ended up doing.
    An entire situation that could have been avoided by not rushing Ellie to surgery, waiting for both of them to regain consciousous, and explaining the whole ordeal. Joel probably would have been more likely to accept the situation if a fully conscious Ellie chose to go through with it.
    Some would ask
    "How could a perfect God create a universe with so much that is evil?"
    They have missed a greater conundrum
    "Why would a perfect God create a universe at all?"


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