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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Just have a simple question this time. I'm trying to decide whether or not it's worth going 8.5%/7.5% expertise for OH Stormbolt to never miss and, if it is, what the optimal path to getting there would be. Here's my armory. I also have another Heroic Nazgrim mace that I could swap for my OH Heroic Sha sword.
    Storm bolt cannot be dodged, blocked or parried. It can only miss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    You can change your exp/crit gems to str/crit as well.
    For TG this is poor advice. (almost) Never gem str/crit, only exp/crit, crit, crit/hit.

    There is only one feasible scenario where str/crit would be used, and I'm not even sure if there is an item in the game that has this combination of gems:
    3 sockets
    1 red, 2 yellow

    80str/160 crit + 640 crit + 180 str = 240 + 800 crit = 240 + (800 * 1.5) = 1440 SEP

    960 crit * 1.5 = 1440 SEP

    Even in this hypothetical best case scenario, gemming str/crit merely breaks even with ignoring socket bonuses.

    When gemming exp/crit or crit/hit, look at it as actually gemming mastery/crit and mastery/hit. If you add 160 expertise to your gear via gems, 160 expertise is reforged off into mastery in a bunch of other places, at least until you can no longer reforge expertise off.

    160 mastery/160 crit + 640 crit + 180 str = 180 + (1.1 * 160) + (800 * 1.5) = 180 + 176 + 1200 = 1556 SEP
    Last edited by CollisionTD; 2014-03-17 at 12:14 AM.

  2. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    Storm bolt cannot be dodged, blocked or parried. It can only miss.
    Well that certainly solves that problem. Thank you and everyone else for your replies.

  3. #563
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    Storm bolt cannot be dodged, blocked or parried. It can only miss.



    For TG this is poor advice. (almost) Never gem str/crit, only exp/crit, crit, crit/hit.

    There is only one feasible scenario where str/crit would be used, and I'm not even sure if there is an item in the game that has this combination of gems:
    3 sockets
    1 red, 2 yellow

    80str/160 crit + 640 crit + 180 str = 240 + 800 crit = 240 + (800 * 1.5) = 1440 SEP

    960 crit * 1.5 = 1440 SEP

    Even in this hypothetical best case scenario, gemming str/crit merely breaks even with ignoring socket bonuses.

    When gemming exp/crit or crit/hit, look at it as actually gemming mastery/crit and mastery/hit. If you add 160 expertise to your gear via gems, 160 expertise is reforged off into mastery in a bunch of other places, at least until you can no longer reforge expertise off.

    160 mastery/160 crit + 640 crit + 180 str = 180 + (1.1 * 160) + (800 * 1.5) = 180 + 176 + 1200 = 1556 SEP
    Again, AMR does all of this for you, if you only import your own stat weights.
    I have gemmed Str/Crit on occasion, so it isn't impossible, but definitely requires some interesting gear.

    Either way, see what AMR gives you. Give us another shout of it's completely off the mark, you prob missed a checkbox somewhere, otherwise it is correct 99% of the time.

  4. #564
    Gemming Str/crit would require crit to have significantly lower value. So, if you have 4pcT15, <550 ilevel gear, or <10k mastery they could allow a little bit of room to gem str/crit, but even then it'll likely still be best to ignore that socket.

  5. #565
    Is it really better to have 1k haste after reforge on the Sword than having straight crit or str/crit gems in them? This guy has literally 0 expertise on any other gear. He can do the sims for himself though.

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    Is it really better to have 1k haste after reforge on the Sword than having straight crit or str/crit gems in them? This guy has literally 0 expertise on any other gear. He can do the sims for himself though.
    That's not what I meant. I should have edited your quote a little better to this:
    You can change your exp/crit gems to str/crit as well.
    I'm saying that if he goes with the exp/mastery maces, don't use str/crit gems. Just use crit.

  7. #567
    Mechagnome Bizerk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    Storm bolt cannot be dodged, blocked or parried. It can only miss.

    What about Raging blow, I think the off-hand portion can still be dodged.

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
    What about Raging blow, I think the off-hand portion can still be dodged.
    It can but I don't think the chance at my OH being dodged outweighs the extra 1.5k-2k Crit and socket bonuses I'd get with Sha sword versus Nazgrim Mace. Currently doing a few sims though to see what would be the case.

    Edit: Unrelated but huzzah at us finally defeating the attendance boss enough to down Heroic Paragons. Can't wait to see some of our "core" members come crawling back out of the woodwork because they got tired of having to swap in recruits/dps alts to relearn the first 4 Paragons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    Is it really better to have 1k haste after reforge on the Sword than having straight crit or str/crit gems in them? This guy has literally 0 expertise on any other gear. He can do the sims for himself though.
    I have so little Expertise on other pieces because with 2 Maces I am over 7.5%/7.5% Expertise just from the Expertise on my weapons as a Dwarf, making it very hard to reforge out (at best I can reforge away about 900 but I'd only need 1-2 Crafty gems to get the cap I think). Plus with the gear I got this week I would be more over the Hit soft cap without the Sha sword's Piercing gem if I went with the 2nd mace. This would probably change if I can get the Malkorok pants though.

    As for when a viable time to use a Str/Crit gem over Exp/Crit only scenario I can think of would be when I can't reforge the extra Expertise from the gem to Crit/Mastery and I need a red socket for my Helm bonus.
    Last edited by Trubo; 2014-03-18 at 05:29 AM.

  9. #569
    Mechagnome Requiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
    What about Raging blow, I think the off-hand portion can still be dodged.
    cool thing about raging blow is that if the off hand gets parried or dodged the whole thing is dodged or parried

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Requiel View Post
    cool thing about raging blow is that if the off hand gets parried or dodged the whole thing is dodged or parried
    I think Dark summed it up well in an older thread about MH/OH expertise concerns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    As for the reason. Offhand RB and WS is less than 15% of damage, on average. Be generous and say 20%. So you're comparing 1% chance to miss on 20% of damage, which is .2% of your damage. Plus a little change for white hit and rage. Compare that to 1% mastery, which is basically 1% extra damage up at least 75% of the time, at higher gear levels even much higher, especially in AoE situations.
    So keeping that in mind it mostly boils down for me whether or not 8% Crit is worth 11% or so Mastery. On paper the Mastery might be more preferential but I like the consistency of getting a crit Bloodthirst for Enrage uptime more than more Mastery. If I read the sims correctly though the difference between the two choices was something like 1k on average with 5 sims for each weapon set so I'm not going to worry too much about which to choose.
    Last edited by Trubo; 2014-03-18 at 07:52 PM.

  11. #571

    Great Guide

    Hello fellow warriors,
    This is a really good guide and helped me to improve myself


    Keep going

  12. #572
    Ola ,
    I have came back to playing wow for 2 months now,and since TBC alot has changed.I could say my simulated dps is around 310k(patchwerk style) and im doing around 260-280 in SoO HC. Therefor i'd like to improve this..
    I have a set of question that are running through my mind:

    1)What about storm bolt usage?note that i have flex Eye of Galakras,which means my SB cd is 21.3 secs or so.If i start on my first CS with it on the 4th CS it will be outside the CS window..is it worth delaying it?or skip on one SB?
    2)What about after if i get heroic Eye of Galakras?would it be a dps loss to wait for CS for the usage of SB?

    3)Use of berzerker rage?Use it during CS for an extra RB?save it in case bloodthirst fails to crit?

    cheers

  13. #573
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
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    If you are using EEoG, always use SB inside CS.

    Even with Flex trinket, holding your CS for 1 second isn't a big loss, a lot of people do it without ever realizing it, through GCD's and using BT before CS.
    With Heroic EEoG, SB fits perfectly inside CS, so you should never have to purposefully delay anything.

    BzR should generally be used when BT fails. Some people would argue to use it to get a 3rd RB but its a personal choice that you shouldn't really bother considering until you have 40%+ Crit. I recommend saving it.

  14. #574
    The Patient
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    Sup guys, first time Fury Warrior here EVER. Started playing warrior when SoO came and started as Prot. Now I have gathered full gear of dps set and want to try fury. What tips and niches you got for HC SoO bosses? Thanks in dvance

    Also if someone could run simulationcraft for me I would appreciate it, gear is in my signature.

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Karjis View Post
    Sup guys, first time Fury Warrior here EVER. Started playing warrior when SoO came and started as Prot. Now I have gathered full gear of dps set and want to try fury. What tips and niches you got for HC SoO bosses? Thanks in dvance

    Also if someone could run simulationcraft for me I would appreciate it, gear is in my signature.
    Best way to start in SoO as fury, SInce you already done them as prot i guess you have to test your way forward.
    Start by reading the Fury guide and then do what feels right. not really much to say.

    aka stand in shit for more fury i guess the healers will hate you though.

    Also make sure that you use Berserker Stance when you have alot of incoming raid damage for more rage,Not really sure what else i can say to you.

  16. #576
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karjis View Post
    Sup guys, first time Fury Warrior here EVER. Started playing warrior when SoO came and started as Prot. Now I have gathered full gear of dps set and want to try fury. What tips and niches you got for HC SoO bosses? Thanks in dvance

    Also if someone could run simulationcraft for me I would appreciate it, gear is in my signature.
    It's not too bad, biggest thing to focus on is uptime and where to use your cooldowns/how to stack them effectively.

    You should learn to run Simcraft for yourself though. Many people here are glad to help the uneducated, but don't be so lazy as to expect other people to do work for you.
    There is a decent guide written by Dark linked here.

  17. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    It's not too bad, biggest thing to focus on is uptime and where to use your cooldowns/how to stack them effectively.

    You should learn to run Simcraft for yourself though. Many people here are glad to help the uneducated, but don't be so lazy as to expect other people to do work for you.
    There is a decent guide written by Dark linked here.
    Well since I have been prot and not needing simcraft I was just asking I guess I can do it myself tho. Have been practicing "rotation" in dummies for sometime now, first raid as Fury will be next wednesday when we clear the farm bosses so I guess I am a lot wiser after that.

    Also whats the deal with fury aoe? When should I be using whirlwind for example? or should I just use Bladestorm on AoE heavy fights and when its on CD continue single target dps?

  18. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by Karjis View Post
    Well since I have been prot and not needing simcraft I was just asking I guess I can do it myself tho. Have been practicing "rotation" in dummies for sometime now, first raid as Fury will be next wednesday when we clear the farm bosses so I guess I am a lot wiser after that.

    Also whats the deal with fury aoe? When should I be using whirlwind for example? or should I just use Bladestorm on AoE heavy fights and when its on CD continue single target dps?
    I use Whirlwind mostly when there's 3 adds (think you could do it with 2 adds a la Protectors but have fun maintaining the rage necessary for that) up but I know more will spawn for Bladestorm purposes (aka waiting a few seconds for all Sha adds to spawn and get stacked). Otherwise I always use Bladestorm over Whirlwind for AoE then go back to my single target rotation since stuff is usually dead by the end of the Bladestorm. I may forgo Bladestorm for Whirlwind if I'm not Enraged though and have a global to fill until Bloodthirst.

  19. #579
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    I use Whirlwind mostly when there's 3 adds (think you could do it with 2 adds a la Protectors but have fun maintaining the rage necessary for that) up but I know more will spawn for Bladestorm purposes (aka waiting a few seconds for all Sha adds to spawn and get stacked). Otherwise I always use Bladestorm over Whirlwind for AoE then go back to my single target rotation since stuff is usually dead by the end of the Bladestorm. I may forgo Bladestorm for Whirlwind if I'm not Enraged though and have a global to fill until Bloodthirst.
    Depends more on the length that the adds are up than how many there are.
    Most adds in SoO are only up the length of Bladestorm. For targets that you know are going to be up longer, Meat Cleaving should take priority.
    When you are having to use Bladestorm, timing is important; you often don't have time to push it back and wait for a BT. You should identify these times for priority BzR usage. Examples would be Sha of Pride, Malkorok, Thok, Garrosh. Anywhere adds die quickly/within a Bladestorm.
    If you can BT to Enrage before Bladestorm you should, and use the BzR to extend Enrage. If you can't BT first for whatever reason, use BzR a split second before you hit BS and that should carry Enrage all the way through Bladestorm. A macro works too.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Depends more on the length that the adds are up than how many there are.
    Most adds in SoO are only up the length of Bladestorm. For targets that you know are going to be up longer, Meat Cleaving should take priority.
    When you are having to use Bladestorm, timing is important; you often don't have time to push it back and wait for a BT. You should identify these times for priority BzR usage. Examples would be Sha of Pride, Malkorok, Thok, Garrosh. Anywhere adds die quickly/within a Bladestorm.
    If you can BT to Enrage before Bladestorm you should, and use the BzR to extend Enrage. If you can't BT first for whatever reason, use BzR a split second before you hit BS and that should carry Enrage all the way through Bladestorm. A macro works too.
    For quality of life: you can also make your BS be a macro that by default is just BS but with a modifier key (Ctrl in my case), casts BzR right before BS. Obviously you can use BzR during BS as well if your enrage is up at the start of BS but is about to fall off as Archi said.

    For Malkarok, I usually glyph RB and will Meat Cleaver the little add that spawns.
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