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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Yes this is good to do, it does proc the 2p bonus for 5 free rage and it is a bit extra damage, but I would focus on getting the core rotation down first. It is a very slight dps gain, and any time you use the ability for mobility, to either avoid death or get higher melee uptime on target; that will come out to a higher dps increase than simply using it inside CS.
    Aye my bad, should've pointed that out.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    The Bladestorm change is relatively recent (Feb) information. Really it was discovered completely on accident because we all assumed that Dragon Roar can and should be better Single target damage. The thought that a short Bladestorm would be better overall damage through the course of a fight never entered anyones mind. You can see the post here.

    There is no solution unfortunately, the only thing you can do is try to stay up to date with what Collision and the rest of us post. I promise you will find out as soon as we do! :P

    As for the opener:
    Using Storm Bolt on the first GCD pushes back Bloodthirst, if you are going to use BzR to skip Bloodthirst and fit a 3rd RB instead, it doesn't matter, but for the follow on CS cycles you will want to use Storm Bolt on the 3rd GCD, or you are doing yourself a disservice.

    As I posted and Meteo explained above, using BzR is a rather negligible damage increase. It will increase your short term damage on the pull, but if you find yourself with a follow on BT and CS that didn't crit, it will be an overall dps loss. The choice is yours of course, I personally find that I like having BzR as back up in case I get unlucky.
    For reference, I am completely best in slot and yet I still find myself with back to back non-crits, take it how you will.
    I also find it easier to always keep a consistent rotation. Instead of starting with CS SB RB RB RB then changing to CS RB BT SB RB; I always use the second.

    Why? Muscle memory. I don't have to think about it, its is automatic, I just do it. Free's me up to watch other things. Obviously this won't apply to everyone but my vote goes for consistency.

    Also, keep in mind "I noticed higher burst on opener" is not a very valid metric. Simple things like (un)lucky crits and slight variation of trinket procs can make a lot of difference that is hard to notice. It's why people do not put much stock in target dummy tests anymore. RNG will be RNG.
    Well unless BT is more damage than RB, then RB is better to use instead of BT on the opener during CS.

  3. #663
    Mechagnome DrArtorius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galvin View Post
    Well unless BT is more damage than RB, then RB is better to use instead of BT on the opener during CS.
    Keeping the BzR to use when your BT fails to crit later is probably better due to enrage uptime.
    "Haste will fix it" - Ghostcrawler

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by DrArtorius View Post
    Keeping the BzR to use when your BT fails to crit later is probably better due to enrage uptime.
    Guess either opener is fine. One in the guide or the one I use.
    Last edited by galvin; 2014-05-09 at 01:31 AM.

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by galvin View Post
    Guess either opener is fine. One in the guide or the one I use.
    No offense but I'll favor advice from Collison or Arch more than you.

  6. #666
    Using BZR instead of BT is viable on an opener, you'll likely have the same average dps with more variance.

  7. #667
    Warchief Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galvin View Post
    Well unless BT is more damage than RB, then RB is better to use instead of BT on the opener during CS.
    I did not argue that, but you don't play for the best pull. If you do you might as well reroll Enh Shaman. You play for overall damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros
    It will increase your short term damage on the pull
    Likewise:
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros
    The choice if yours, I personally find that I like having BzR as back up in case I get unlucky.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    Using BZR instead of BT is viable on an opener, you'll likely have the same average dps with more variance.
    Pretty much this. The difference is so small its borderline insignificant because it all comes down to luck. I posted my opinion, and that's all it really is.

    However, using Dragon Roar over proper usage of Bladestorm is a clear DPS loss; likewise using Bloodbath instead of Storm Bolt. Which is really what the whole post was about.

  8. #668
    Thanks for the info. I just want to be sure i'm doing everything I can rotation wise correctly.

  9. #669
    Is there any place I can find a trinket ranking for PVE fury? I can't seem to find one. Not just BiS, but in general so I know what should be equipped (for instance, is Thok's Tail Flex better than Warforged Skeer's Normal?).

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaru View Post
    Is there any place I can find a trinket ranking for PVE fury? I can't seem to find one. Not just BiS, but in general so I know what should be equipped (for instance, is Thok's Tail Flex better than Warforged Skeer's Normal?).
    You're in luck. I made this picture half a year ago.

    http://i.imgur.com/64vMdlb.jpg

    (Massive picture below)


    - - - Updated - - -




    I started a blog to copy/paste some of my huge forum posts, mostly as a reference for myself later on as I hate searching through hundreds of old posts. I thought I'd link it here in case it's helpful. I have no plans of posting to it often, so don't add it to your "I need to check this every week!" list, it'll just be a decent reference site eventually.

    However, I did make a post about weapon enchants, which I thought I would be able to easily copy/paste here, but the formatting was all screwed up, so I'll just post a link.

    http://warriordpr.blogspot.com/2014/...nts-again.html

    For those who just want to know what I found:

    Conclusion:
    Any TG Fury Warrior above 570 ilevel with a thoks tail tip should swap from dancing steel to windsong.
    Last edited by CollisionTD; 2014-05-10 at 08:51 AM.

  11. #671

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    Any TG Fury Warrior above 570 ilevel with a thoks tail tip should swap from dancing steel to windsong.
    For both MH+OH?

  13. #673

    Smile

    I just watched your post on your blog, collision. it's cool ..
    In theory it's look great but I have a question
    In practice, is what will really increase our dps by 0.1% ?
    I mean, we are human, we can make mistakes and have a lower uptime of our enrage buff than stimcraft? This would mean that mastery would be a little weaker than would imply simcraft?

    I don't know how works simcraft, and i don't how if it takes into account a margin of error so..
    Is it worth it to swap Dancing steel for Windsong? In case i am a noob

    Kiss

    ps :sorry for my bad english, i used google translate.

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    For both MH+OH?
    There could possibly be a gear setup (Maybe 570-572 ilevel?) where 1 DS and 1 WS is optimal. I'll check into it today/tomorrow sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerocell View Post
    I just watched your post on your blog, collision. it's cool ..
    In theory it's look great but I have a question
    In practice, is what will really increase our dps by 0.1% ?
    I mean, we are human, we can make mistakes and have a lower uptime of our enrage buff than stimcraft? This would mean that mastery would be a little weaker than would imply simcraft?

    I don't know how works simcraft, and i don't how if it takes into account a margin of error so..
    Is it worth it to swap Dancing steel for Windsong? In case i am a noob

    Kiss

    ps :sorry for my bad english, i used google translate.
    If anything, 2x windsong will be slightly better for newer players. This can be shown in the statistics section, as the standard deviation is higher for DS than WS.

    Windsong


    Dancing Steel

  15. #675
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    Holy shit. Collision Math™ never ceases to amaze.

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    There could possibly be a gear setup (Maybe 570-572 ilevel?) where 1 DS and 1 WS is optimal. I'll check into it today/tomorrow sometime.
    I look forward to your results in the unlikely chance I ever get a HWF 2 hander or a second HWF 1 hander.

  17. #677
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    By the way, is WS > DS on any number of targets?

  18. #678
    In Full BiS gear, with 8 targets DS=WS, and they stay equal no matter how high you go (I tested up to 24targets, they where still within 0.01% of each other). The lower gear you have, the bigger the difference will be, in favor of DS.
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  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    In Full BiS gear, with 8 targets DS=WS, and they stay equal no matter how high you go (I tested up to 24targets, they where still within 0.01% of each other). The lower gear you have, the bigger the difference will be, in favor of DS.

    Hello, but with 3+ targets, i am not sure i am supposed to use thok trinket, fusion core + eye of galakras should be better, i guess
    So, i think i'am not going to swap my enchant now,huhu. What do you guys think ?
    Last edited by nerocell; 2014-05-11 at 03:48 PM.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by nerocell View Post
    Hello, but with 3+ targets, i am not sure i am supposed to use thok trinket, fusion core + eye of galakras should be better, i guess
    So, i think i'am not going to swap my enchant now,huhu. What do you guys think ?
    Only problem with FFC is that of the fights where there is usually something else to kill that's important to kill (Protectors, Norushen, Sha, Galakras, Siegecrafter?, Paragons?, Garrosh?) only one of them works in a non-padding situation, generates enough adds during all times of the fight for trinket procs and targets are close enough for the proc to occur. That fight is Norushen.

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