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  1. #1

    Why Alliance are terrible at BGs...

    I just came back to WoW after a year long break and decided to gear up for some PvP. I started with my Horde Hunter. The process as Horde was smooth for the most part. The only thing rough on my Hunter was the fact that I was in Malevolent/Tyrannical. But, my win ratio was almost all wins (I block AV and IoC). I remember only 3 losses during the entire process ending with 3 Prideful pieces thanks to all of the bonuses Conquest for winning the BGs.

    Now it is time to gear my Alliance Holy Paladin. Yesterday alone I went 1-11. I was 1-7 in random Q in which I got SotA 8 times in a row (not very random). I dont need to ask why Alliance loses. As a Healer I know why. I can see how poorly they perform as I have a bird's eye view of the battle as it unfolds. Despite topping the healing in most BGs we lost almost every one. I will go over some of the reasons why, poor game play.

    I am an experienced player. Even though Im under-geared I am very difficult to kill because I know how to survive and kite/juke interrupts. The problem with Alliance in general is a pure lack of aggression and skill at PvP. I cant tell you how many times Ive been healing Hunters with a melee on me and not one single frost trap, binding shot, explosive trap was dropped on me to peel. Alliance do not peel for healers, pretty much ever. As a Horde Hunter I mark my healers with Icons so when they arrive to heal me and my group I put all effort into freeing the up to heal. I also make sure the use Masters call and Roar of Sac on them as well.

    I will go over a few of the worst cases as to why Alliance is terrible.

    I was healing a Monk and he was getting trashed by a Ret Paladin, he was getting trashed before Wings so when the Ret popped Wings I feared the Ret immediately. What did the Monk do? He raced over to the feared Ret and Broke it as fast as he could. My HoJ needed 3 more seconds to come off CD. As I guessed, the Monk got melted when he broke the fear and I didnt have HoJ to continue the CC chain due to the early fear break. I sent the Monk a tell explaining why breaking the Fear was bad and why I feared the Ret to burn off his wings. I knew this particular Ret was stacking CDs with Wings (trinket and Holy avenger) I saw his buffs and knew he was a serious threat with Wings up. Well the Monk and ret went at it again later. Again the Ret pops Wings, Holy Aveng and trink. I fear the Ret, AGAIN the Monk races over and breaks the fear asap and AGAIN gets melted even after I explained why this was a bad idea. Terrible.

    SotA I spend most of my time telling people to get bombs as all I see as I run bombs is people fighting on the roads without bombs and we lose game after game.

    I finally got WSG instead of SotA. Im thanking the lord. Welp, right off the bat I know we are in trouble. This Ret in Timeless isles gear and 415k health decides he is the best possible choice to run the flag so of course he gets to the flag first with me because of increased mount speed. I ask him to wait and drop the flag for someone in better gear. He ignores me and tries to carry it. I cant keep him healed even with LoHands. Of course he got melted, was this a shock to him or her? Terrible, we lose...again.

    I'm here healing my heart out. I'm throwing out freedoms, Hands of prot, and hands of sac. I'm doing every single thing I can to keep you alive. So, is it really so hard to peel for me if I need it? I guess asking an Alliance player to peel is like asking a man in a wheel chair to do the Running man. Why are Alliance players in general so terrible and lack any sort of awareness?

    I have lost count of all the times Ive seen Alliance players ride right by me sitting in a sap. All the times Ive had to face tank 2 melee. All the times Ive rode past people fighting on the roads on SotA with no bombs and no Demos. Don't these players want to win? Where is the disconnect? Why does the Horde fight with such ferocity while the Alliance seems to be very hesitant to engage and are quick to retreat, even when being healed and are still at full health. I have lost count of all the times Ive seen Alliance players disengage and run from a fight even though I am healing them, they are perfectly fine but still they decide to run away.

    As you can tell I am very frustrated and quite besides myself. I dont get it, at all.
    Last edited by Stormcleave; 2014-08-11 at 02:53 PM.

  2. #2
    horde are better at pvp in na alliance are better at pvp in eu.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    horde are better at pvp in na alliance are better at pvp in eu.
    I wouldn't say thats true at all, as an EU player (and a horde player) horde seems to win mostly. But its all down to players and mindset IMO. Though in my opinion horde has always been the preferred side for players to pvp on.

  4. #4
    Pit Lord Huntaer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    alliance are better at pvp in eu.
    Hi, welcome to europe. you must be new here.
    Seriously though, horde win most BGs here in europe as well.
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  5. #5
    As someone who has played for years, I can assure you it really never stays that way way long term. I have seen both factions go through horrible phases countless times, then a few months later it suddenly changes and the other one sucks. Alliance queues make temporarily losing more often totally worth it if you ask me.

  6. #6
    Brewmaster Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    horde are better at pvp in na alliance are better at pvp in eu.
    This. It has nothing to do with the faction. It has to do with the best players moving to one faction and a server. When all of the best players go somewhere, the lesser good players follow, then those below them follow ect. Everyone wants to play with the best, there is really no solution to fix the faction imbalance when its 100% decided by the twitch/youtube heroes.

    Tich horde didn't exist in Cataclysm, most of those people were playing on KT alliance at that time. You should ask people who play on Tich now on why they transferred over from whatever server they came from. They will all say "Tich is the best pvp server, that's why I went there." Why did it become the best pvp server? Again, look at the ladders.
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  7. #7
    They don't always win depends on the time of day and battle group my friend pvps as both factions on 2 different groups and never wins either

  8. #8
    High Overlord Pedrolo's Avatar
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    Bots. They are all bots.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    US: Horde players dominate arena ladders.
    EU: Alliance players dominate arena ladders.

    I'm not familiar with the BG situation on US, but if it's like EU then that means Alliance dominates in US BGs while Horde dominates EU BGs due to the hardcore players focusing more on arena than on BGs.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Luminoth4's Avatar
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    Personal PoV, particularly with MoP is that Horde EU is just plain better than Alliance. Gear, Healers, Team Players, not on the Alliance. Often you can feel like you're the only one who wants to win, I've seen Alliance ignore objectives. Maybe the Players on Alliance are younger, maybe there are more Bots, I don't know.

    I had to recently do ToK and SSM for the Legendary Quest on my Alt DK. ToK went fine. SSM took five losses first. The Alliance did not focus the Horde Healer. They focused on the Water Cart (The longest route, leaving the Horde to take Lava/Mid), and in team fights they got torn to pieces. It was a horrific experience, in one of those BGs only one person on the Alliance had a set of PVP Gear, we got slaughtered from the go.

    I play Alliance mainly with my Guild, but don't often do Random BGs now. I'd rather level a Horde Character to 90, as I will probably have more fun.
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  11. #11
    Brewmaster Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    As someone who has played for years, I can assure you it really never stays that way way long term. I have seen both factions go through horrible phases countless times, then a few months later it suddenly changes and the other one sucks. Alliance queues make temporarily losing more often totally worth it if you ask me.
    Another reason factions are usually lopsided is because everyone wants to play on the winning team, nobody wants to lose. This forces all of the serious non braindead players to play on the faction that looks to be getting the upper hand. When all of those people eventually merge, it eventually creates a significant disparity skillwise between factions.

    Of course, the top faction will rise and fall at the hands of the top players. When they get bored of playing male orcs, they'll move over to alliance and play female humans.
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  12. #12
    Field Marshal mrcoolguyry's Avatar
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    Why can't we just go with the usual "I lost a game, but oh hey look I just won one!" argument here?

    Except for Alterac Valley and Isle of Conquest though. A majority of the time (A majority.) they win those regardless.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    As someone who has played for years, I can assure you it really never stays that way way long term. I have seen both factions go through horrible phases countless times, then a few months later it suddenly changes and the other one sucks. Alliance queues make temporarily losing more often totally worth it if you ask me.
    Not sure about that. Having to play 20 games to purchase a piece of gear for 1450 HPs is a seriously long and frustrating road to travel.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcleave View Post
    Not sure about that. Having to play 20 games to purchase a piece of gear for 1450 HPs is a seriously long and frustrating road to travel.
    So is waiting 15 minutes only to get Strand of the Ancients. With instant queues at least if you lose or get a crappy battleground, you can just shrug it off afterward and hop in another one. Waiting for 10 to 15 minutes to get a crappy map, or a loss, is very demoralizing. I actually gear up quite a bit faster as Alliance right now, despite losing more, just because I get way more games in before I get bored and quit.

  15. #15
    alliance are better at pvp therefore there are less of them in BGs grinding honor
    loljk

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    So is waiting 15 minutes only to get Strand of the Ancients. With instant queues at least if you lose or get a crappy battleground, you can just shrug it off afterward and hop in another one. Waiting for 10 to 15 minutes to get a crappy map, or a loss, is very demoralizing. I actually gear up quite a bit faster as Alliance right now, despite losing more, just because I get way more games in before I get bored and quit.
    I did shrug it off and reque. Did you even bother to read my OP? I played 11 BGs yesterday...11! I didnt do one and quit.

    Why would you (Alliance). Q for a BG, SotA and not even try to win? How hard is to realize you need to carry bombs or grab a demo, blow up gates and touch the Relic? Why arent they even trying to win? Instead they are just randomly fighting on the roads thinking somehow someone, somewhere is going to win the BG for them.
    Last edited by Stormcleave; 2014-08-11 at 03:11 PM.

  17. #17
    On my mage I have 994 battlegrounds played, 548 of them are wins.
    On my hunter I have 511 battlegrounds played, 282 of them are wins.
    So overall above 50% win ratio - I hardly ever try to win a bg and most of the time I just farm people for the fun of it.

    I play on alliance EU.

    You probably just got into an unlucky streak

  18. #18
    Mechagnome
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    I think the Horde is ahead in PvP most nights but it is not by much, while some battle groups may loose more than other it's not that one sided.

    I have an add on, I think it’s OQ and it shows the BG’s as being even over all.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Shockzilla View Post
    I think the Horde is ahead in PvP most nights but it is not by much, while some battle groups may loose more than other it's not that one sided.

    I have an add on, I think it’s OQ and it shows the BG’s as being even over all.
    Battle groups only exist on paper. They no longer decide who plays with who.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire Exploitbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcleave View Post
    This Ret in Timeless isles gear and 415k health decides he is the best possible choice to run the flag so of course he gets to the flag first

    Well, he is probably just used to there being no one else taking the flag because 90% of all people in bgs just farm or get farmed in middle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saithy View Post
    On my mage I have 994 battlegrounds played, 548 of them are wins.
    On my hunter I have 511 battlegrounds played, 282 of them are wins.
    So overall above 50% win ratio - I hardly ever try to win a bg and most of the time I just farm people for the fun of it.

    I play on alliance EU.

    You probably just got into an unlucky streak

    And how many of those battlegrounds are AV/IoC and how many of the wins are AV/IoC?
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    Looks like they're closer to 20m.

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