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  1. #1

    Why are people in random BGs so lazy or afk-ish?

    Seriously, all I hear is "Blizzard did everything wrong."

    But it's the community who sucks. This is sad to say, but you can easily see this in a random BG.

    Let's forget about all those fresh lvl 100's with low gear who get two shotted.
    Let's forget about all those people who don't even think about to attack any EFC.
    Let's forget about all those whiney kids who start flaming in a BG.
    Let's forget about all those people who don't know what to do in a BG, i.e. taking/planting vehicles/bombs.

    I'm talking about those 5 people who are AFK when the gates of a BG just openend.
    I'm talking about those 5 people who are tapping the same base in Battle of Gilneas/Arathi instead of running with the Zerg.
    I'm talking about those people who, when dead, don't run back into the zerg, instead they go AFK at the GY or at the first uncontested base. Basically, they give up.
    I'm talking about those people who are just running or doing shit to give the illusion of actual play in order to not get kicked or voted for afk.

    I know, theres a big difference in Gear and 1-2 top PvP players/healers can stand out and carry.
    I know, sometimes you have "good" BGs and "bad" BGs.
    I know, sometimes you win, sometimes you loose.

    In my personal view, its about the way of winning or loosing. Most of the time you completly destroy the enemy or you get completly destroyed.
    This will be even worse in Legion: 10 Man Warsong, 2 people are Afk, you loose the first zerg, people get mad. GG

    You could say: Well it's a random BG, deal with it. Do we really have to? Do I have to find 9 other mates for RBG in order to have some proper BG action?

    Why are random BGs completly dependant on the people who are AFK and why are there so many people who are slacking or afk?

    This is the very imporant question here and as far as I have made my conclusion, it's because the mood of the people. It's not the game, it's not the gear difference, it's simply the mood of the people.

    If you face really strong opponents, fast, big dps, big heals or bad situations like "0:2 behind in Flags" or strong time limits, you just say "let them win, let them pass, go afk so we can queue faster again". etc. etc.

    This might be somewhere acceptable, but it is not acceptable, that people enter a BG and are slacking or AFK right away. And this is the case currently.

    And this has to stop.

    How?

    There is only one solution: Penalties. I'm not talking about Debuffs. I'm talking about Penalties.

    BTW, which community is the most toxic in the internet? The LoL Community? Because "Omg fvcking feeder! Surrender@ 20, I don't waste my time".
    Do you see the commonalities with WoW? I do. But instead of WoW, you can expect all your LoL-teammates to be active from the start. (most of the time -.-'')

    Well, back to penalties.

    Penalties - Solutions:

    1. Since I'm talking about random BGs, you can't loose any rating. But there could still be a hidden MMR, which would match you with better/worse players. I don't think this would solve anything tbh.

    2. After every game, every player from his team has to vote if anybody in his team shouldn't get any loot/honor/whatever. He can basically vote for one guy or just nullvote. This way, every players knows "if I'll go AFK or do shit, I might get nothing out, so I have to play as good as I can". You could trigger the penalty only if 50% of the team wants you to be punished.

    3. Make them pay for BGs. Everybody who enters a BG, has to pay 1000g. This way you can ensure, that everyone who enters a BG, does really want to play the BG and that he wants to win it. (If he wins, he gets the gold back). Nobody would pay 1000g and just go auto-afk right?

    4. Loose items. Yes. Loose items. If you loose a BG, you will loose an item. I'll explain a little bit more: When you start a BG, you can basically offer one Item as a deposit. If you win a BG, you're item will improve by 0.1 ilvl. If you loose the BG, it won't. Plus, there is a chance you might lose it. I.e. it will be unuseable until you pay 1000g to make it useable again. (Not completly destroyed)

    5. Goals. There could be goals in a BG i.e: Top 3 in DPS, Top 3 in killings Blows, Top (2) in Heals, Capture atleast one Flag, return atleast one Flag, have atleat 50 HK's... and so on.
    This goals could be individually achieved in order to prevent loosing penalties from 3. or 4. or could be set as a requirement to get better loot. Even, if you are top DMG in the loosing team, you would get almost as much honor/loot as the guys from the winning team. (I know, damage is not everything, but in random BGs, flat damage and heal are really important)

    Those are basically 5 Solutions I came up with. Honestly I think, the best would be a slight combination:

    Some really easy goals have to be aquired in order to get Loot at all:
    1. Get 5 HK's | deal or heal more than 300k DMG | leave the starting area | participate in atleast 3 fights or die once |.
    Afterwards features like:
    2. Pay some kind of currency to enter a BG, in order to get rid of the "Oh, my BG is up, but I'll finish that youtube video first, it's only 5min."
    3. Allow the players to directly punish one guy who don't deserve any loot, in the simpliest way (for extreme cases).
    4. Allow the players to make their own BG very imporant (ilvl upgrades). (Those players will do everything to win, like in Lol: Placement Games in Ranked)

    All in all, I think those restrictions/penalties are very very harmless in comparison with the "hard" votekick system we have right now, but the votekick system does not help if the BG is already lost.

    The main intention of those penalties, is to make sure, that everybody in your team actually wants to play in this BG till the end.
    There shouldn't be any penalties, if you loose, but tried.

    In Legion, everybody will have the same gear in PvP. You cant simply outgear them. If its 10v10 its a 10v10 and if there are 2 people AFK, it will be almost impossible to win a 10v8.

    I hardly think, any of my solutions, or any form of it, will make it into the game. If I want to do proper PvP I'll think I have to find 4 friends and queue as 5 or join a RBG.

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire BonesDeLarge's Avatar
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    Let's forget about all those fresh lvl 100's with low gear who get two shotted.

    I'm talking about those people who, when dead, don't run back into the zerg, instead they go AFK at the GY or at the first uncontested base. Basically, they give up.
    I'm talking about those people who are just running or doing shit to give the illusion of actual play in order to not get kicked or voted for afk.

    If you face really strong opponents, fast, big dps, big heals or bad situations like "0:2 behind in Flags" or strong time limits, you just say "let them win, let them pass, go afk so we can queue faster again". etc. etc.
    I disagree. Ceasing the fight is actually the most reasonable thing to do when you get severely outgeared/outnumbered/outhealed. Therefore it should be first prority to solve item level discrepancies and matchmaking issues. Fortunately, gear won't be as relevant as it is now in Legion.

    Let's forget about all those people who don't even think about to attack any EFC.
    Let's forget about all those people who don't know what to do in a BG, i.e. taking/planting vehicles/bombs.
    I disagree. People purposely not playing the objectives or not playing them because they don't understand the BG mechanics is actually a big deal. BGs are most frustrating when you lose because nobody picks flags, defends bases or takes orbs. Blizzard has to make objectives clearer and pursuing them more rewarding.

    I also think that penalties are the wrong way to solve these problems. Especially penalties that involve a fee for joining BGs or players rating other players.

    Ultimately, random BGs shouldn't be taken too seriously. Blizzard shouldn't force people into a certain playstyle. Instead, Blizzard should gently push them in the right direction through reasonable rewards.

  3. #3
    The Unstoppable Force det's Avatar
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    The reason might be in the word "random"
    "It’s not the job of the artist to give the audience what the audience wants. If the audience knew what they needed, then they wouldn’t be the audience. They would be the artists. It is the job of artists to give the audience what they need."

    — Alan Moore

  4. #4
    Because I hate PvP and I'm purely doing it to get my 4 wins and get my 500 Valor.

  5. #5
    I do a couple of random BGs almost every day, and i never had bad luck getting 5 afkers, mayber i get 1 afker once a week if that, but most of the time lose or win, ppl are actually active. They might not follow the BG's strat and instead farming HKs, but they are active none the less.

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Fullmetal89's Avatar
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    They really need to add some kind of matchmaking rules for BG's. This is getting ridiculous. Almost every game I'm in there's 1-2 heals on alliance side while 0 on horde (inb4 "play as healer durr" doesn't solve the issue). Gone 17-2 on Horde today. Calling it quits.

    As for AFK's. Yeah they are an issue, almost as annoying as multiboxers that hold up 4 spots on the BG just so they can be retards. I'll say that I haven't come across as many AFK people since the honor buddy bans.

    Quote Originally Posted by BonesDeLarge View Post
    Blizzard has to make objectives clearer and pursuing them more rewarding.
    Not that I want to shill for Blizz but the objectives couldn't be any clearer. Honestly, if people can't figure out the layout and objectives of a BG after a handful of games then they are the ones with the issues. Only exception being AV and to a lesser extent Isle of Conquest, as those require some level of coordination and capturing of objectives to win.
    Last edited by Fullmetal89; 2016-05-13 at 01:48 AM.
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  7. #7
    Mechagnome Trollfat's Avatar
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    A system like Overwatch would be cool where a select few players get victory cards and players vote on them to see who deserves extra honor.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
    Because I hate PvP and I'm purely doing it to get my 4 wins and get my 500 Valor.
    I actually don't blame you. Rewarding PvE currency for a PvP activity is pretty dumb.

    One more thing - bans are a good thing and need to happen far more frequently.
    HEROES NEVER DIE

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Rick Magnus's Avatar
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    Honestly, if it's going to be a loss I'd rather it be done fast and get out quick into a potentially better game. A fast loss to me is better than a drawn out loss. It used to be a more effective way of honour farming too though I haven't BG'd in awhile so that might have changed.
    Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - Carl Sagan

    False facts are highly injurious to the progress of science, for they often endure long; but false views, if supported by some evidence, do little harm, for every one takes a salutary pleasure in proving their falseness. - Charles Darwin

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JhonnyQ View Post
    Penalties - Solutions:
    Big type always makes me sit up straight and read carefully.

    Thanks for reading.
    You're welcome.

    Hope you continue to enjoy your battleground experience.

  10. #10
    Warchief Gracin's Avatar
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    I despise pvp, but decided to do the weekly on an new 100 alt. First big was Twin Peaks, was a great match. We won 1-0, and that flag was only captured in the last two minutes of the match. Everyone on both sides fought hard, were productive, and played very well.

    Next was, whatever the pandarian cart bg is called. What a clusterfuck, my team would rush 6 or more people after a solo/duo using the cart, leaving bases wide open, then would complain when one defender couldn't hold against three attackers.

    Next was AV, now I mostly play horde but this alt is alliance. So when AV popped I was actually happy because in my experience alliance seems to win AV consistently more. My team intentionally turtled, the proceeded to get pushed back, at one point be farmed at a gy. When I suggested wiping it up when we were at a 270 point deficit, I was bashed for being a "bitch".

    Last one I did was AB, this one was close and we probably would have won had two/three players actually assisted in fighting. One Rogue in particular sat at farm and did nothing but cap it when nobody was there. At one point he had zero damage taken or done, and 7 attacks on a node. He even said something in chat about it...

    Now I'm not gonna claim to be amazing at pvp, because I'm not. But what I do know is that sticking to the simple strategy will win a bg will likely result in a win. Yet people still insist on doing stupid shit, and wasting time.

  11. #11
    If there was an achievement for dumbest suggestion, this one would be in the finals, I'm sure.

    Fee to enter bg and don't get the gold back if you lose?
    Lose items if you lose?
    300k dmg? Thats like one starfall.
    Die once? Afk people die shit load of times.

    These ideas are so toxic they would kill bgs totally.

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Deruyter's Avatar
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    Soon it diesnt matter anymore as I understand it.

    Random BG's will be completely pointless in Legion, right?
    “Unless you change how you are, you will always have what you've got.” - Jim Rohn
    "Goals allow you to control the direction of change in your favor." - Brian Tracy
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
    Because I hate PvP and I'm purely doing it to get my 4 wins and get my 500 Valor.
    You'd get the quest done a lot faster if you didn't AFK and depend on others to boost you, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    Yeah, people want something for losing.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    The reason might be in the word "random"
    random does not mean, you queue up with people that are afk. you queue up with people you don't know. they are still supposed to play as intended

    Quote Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
    Because I hate PvP and I'm purely doing it to get my 4 wins and get my 500 Valor.
    this is a one time event and my post isnt adressing those pve guys directly

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Magnus View Post
    Honestly, if it's going to be a loss I'd rather it be done fast and get out quick into a potentially better game. A fast loss to me is better than a drawn out loss. It used to be a more effective way of honour farming too though I haven't BG'd in awhile so that might have changed.
    thats whats i said, too. its ok to surrender at like 20 min. but its not okay to surrender after the first fight, or just be afk/useless until the bg is ruined. you want something? go play for it and don't wait until the enemy is full of slackers so you can stomp them


    Quote Originally Posted by Gracin View Post
    I despise pvp, but decided to do the weekly on an new 100 alt. First big was Twin Peaks, was a great match. We won 1-0, and that flag was only captured in the last two minutes of the match. Everyone on both sides fought hard, were productive, and played very well.

    Next was, whatever the pandarian cart bg is called. What a clusterfuck, my team would rush 6 or more people after a solo/duo using the cart, leaving bases wide open, then would complain when one defender couldn't hold against three attackers.

    Next was AV, now I mostly play horde but this alt is alliance. So when AV popped I was actually happy because in my experience alliance seems to win AV consistently more. My team intentionally turtled, the proceeded to get pushed back, at one point be farmed at a gy. When I suggested wiping it up when we were at a 270 point deficit, I was bashed for being a "bitch".

    Last one I did was AB, this one was close and we probably would have won had two/three players actually assisted in fighting. One Rogue in particular sat at farm and did nothing but cap it when nobody was there. At one point he had zero damage taken or done, and 7 attacks on a node. He even said something in chat about it...

    Now I'm not gonna claim to be amazing at pvp, because I'm not. But what I do know is that sticking to the simple strategy will win a bg will likely result in a win. Yet people still insist on doing stupid shit, and wasting time.
    i recognise this alot. players sitting in stealth, just tapping/doing useless stuff. this might be somewhere useful to distract people, but in generall its not effective

    Quote Originally Posted by zmuci View Post
    If there was an achievement for dumbest suggestion, this one would be in the finals, I'm sure.

    Fee to enter bg and don't get the gold back if you lose?
    Lose items if you lose?
    300k dmg? Thats like one starfall.
    Die once? Afk people die shit load of times.

    These ideas are so toxic they would kill bgs totally.
    you dont like my suggestions, its ok. the way youre reasoning, is actually pretty ... stupid?

    first of all, all those solutions have to apply together or a combination of those.

    - there are poeple who are just afk in stealth. you somehow have to get them into combat and forcing them to deal dmg, does not matter how big the numbers are, this will make them move.
    - loose items, i'm happy you didnt even read cleary, so i don't know why im still replying to you.
    - fee to enter a bg, yes a fee. if you go on a raid, you buy bufffood, pots and moreover you have rep costs. this altogether is expensive and there is no reason why bgs are free. it should feel more like: "im queuing for an big epic battle, this will be hard, i have to prepare myself, be focused and play well to succeed"

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by JhonnyQ View Post
    you dont like my suggestions, its ok. the way youre reasoning, is actually pretty ... stupid?

    first of all, all those solutions have to apply together or a combination of those.

    - there are poeple who are just afk in stealth. you somehow have to get them into combat and forcing them to deal dmg, does not matter how big the numbers are, this will make them move.
    - loose items, i'm happy you didnt even read cleary, so i don't know why im still replying to you.
    - fee to enter a bg, yes a fee. if you go on a raid, you buy bufffood, pots and moreover you have rep costs. this altogether is expensive and there is no reason why bgs are free. it should feel more like: "im queuing for an big epic battle, this will be hard, i have to prepare myself, be focused and play well to succeed"
    Ok, I'm triggered.

    People who afk in stealt can get vote kicked now.
    I read you smart idea, and yes, I queue for BG, give my item, and enter against, full premade pro group who is there to make videos or just pwn the living shit out of everyone else. We lose, I lose my item and now I HAVE TO PAY GOLD TO GET MY ITEM BACK, really?
    And the fee is maybe the most idiotic thing ever. I go to the raid, pay for food, flask and shit, but I get LOOT in return (and some small gold from boss/coins but who cares about that). One can spend tops 300,400gold per raid to get the mats, and your idea is 1k per BG??
    In pvp I get honor to buy the gear I lost because of your smart idea above.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by zmuci View Post
    Ok, I'm triggered.

    People who afk in stealt can get vote kicked now.
    I read you smart idea, and yes, I queue for BG, give my item, and enter against, full premade pro group who is there to make videos or just pwn the living shit out of everyone else. We lose, I lose my item and now I HAVE TO PAY GOLD TO GET MY ITEM BACK, really?
    And the fee is maybe the most idiotic thing ever. I go to the raid, pay for food, flask and shit, but I get LOOT in return (and some small gold from boss/coins but who cares about that). One can spend tops 300,400gold per raid to get the mats, and your idea is 1k per BG??
    In pvp I get honor to buy the gear I lost because of your smart idea above.
    people who get vote kicked, may get vote kicked if the bg is already lost, because everyone is mad and blames someone else. votekick doesnt change the bg anymore, its just a punishment that comes to late.

    there are no full premade grps in bgs, at max a 5man premade and you can still beat premades. every real premade grp will go for RBG. in this bg event, you will see alot of pve premade grps and you still wreck them. facing premades can be a problem, but isnt a problem if your team plays well, even more, most of the premades are just grps made in LFG tool, and are still random somehow.

    also, imagine you get your 730item from archimonde and you have the ability to directly upgrade its ilvl. do you care about 1000g? no you wouldnt. this is also an option. you can deposit your item, but you don't have to. you can even go with a premade yourself, so you minimize the chance of losing.

    the fee is not idiotic. sometimes you wont get loot for weeks in raids, or you will kill the first bosses and wipe 30 times at the 4th boss. where is your gold/loot now?

    i don't know why you're triggered, your arguments don't make any sense tbh

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by JhonnyQ View Post
    people who get vote kicked, may get vote kicked if the bg is already lost, because everyone is mad and blames someone else. votekick doesnt change the bg anymore, its just a punishment that comes to late.

    there are no full premade grps in bgs, at max a 5man premade and you can still beat premades. every real premade grp will go for RBG. in this bg event, you will see alot of pve premade grps and you still wreck them. facing premades can be a problem, but isnt a problem if your team plays well, even more, most of the premades are just grps made in LFG tool, and are still random somehow.

    also, imagine you get your 730item from archimonde and you have the ability to directly upgrade its ilvl. do you care about 1000g? no you wouldnt. this is also an option. you can deposit your item, but you don't have to. you can even go with a premade yourself, so you minimize the chance of losing.

    the fee is not idiotic. sometimes you wont get loot for weeks in raids, or you will kill the first bosses and wipe 30 times at the 4th boss. where is your gold/loot now?

    i don't know why you're triggered, your arguments don't make any sense tbh
    Ok I will just leave you to think your ideas are not stupid, and can fix random battlegrounds.
    Have a nice day sir.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by zmuci View Post
    Ok I will just leave you to think your ideas are not stupid, and can fix random battlegrounds.
    Have a nice day sir.
    you can discuss as much as you want, dont be mad. fee's are an actual way to value a certain thing. even in real life. have you ever said "be careful, this thing was expensive?" this applies to basically everything and BGs in wow will be more valuable, if you have to pay to enter. doesnt really matter if its 1000g or a token or any other currency. just don't make them free.

    have you ever played poker? on a table, where you don't have to pay a fee to play on, everybody goes all in in like 5 seconds, because they don't care and they can play again afterwards. but if everyone on the table pays 5$ to play on this table, everyone will play much more serious, because there is something to loose and they cant play unlimitied times.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by JhonnyQ View Post
    you can discuss as much as you want, dont be mad. fee's are an actual way to value a certain thing. even in real life. have you ever said "be careful, this thing was expensive?" this applies to basically everything and BGs in wow will be more valuable, if you have to pay to enter. doesnt really matter if its 1000g or a token or any other currency. just don't make them free.

    have you ever played poker? on a table, where you don't have to pay a fee to play on, everybody goes all in in like 5 seconds, because they don't care and they can play again afterwards. but if everyone on the table pays 5$ to play on this table, everyone will play much more serious, because there is something to loose and they cant play unlimitied times.
    Do you think a guy who just plays wow for PVP has 1k gold for every battleground?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by zmuci View Post
    Do you think a guy who just plays wow for PVP has 1k gold for every battleground?
    first of all, pvp is more than a random bg. arena, RBG etc.
    second, getting wow gold hasnt been easier.
    third, 1000g is not fixed. read this line twice and understand it. just dont make bgs free. people should think twice before queuing up.
    forth: fast forward into legion; if you play random pvp all day and youre doing well, simply make the fee to enter a bg very very small, maybe coupled with your prestige level, so the players who constantly play well, don't have to pay much to enter a bg.

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