[MW] Should I bother fist weaving or not in 5.3?

[Deleted]

I keep watching POV fights of MW monks and notice they are keeping fistweaving buffs up (not sure if there from a previous patch), i'm a recently rolled monk healer and have come to the understanding that i shouldn't be fist weaving anymore and should just be using SM as a chi generator. When i have attempted to fist weave it hasn't netted any significant gain is often mana inefficient with jab taking up so much. My normal play style is based around renewing mists, soothing mists and uplift along with the other normal sequences.

Is there any use in fist weaving at all any more and if so how to you incorporate it?

[Deleted]

Yes you should !

mhm I am currently healing 5/13 HC ToT with 522 ilvl. We are 2 healing Jin rock, Horidon, i am at the main platform at Ji-kun,and were above 110k HPS at HC tortos again 2 healing it,Ion Qon was the easiest when it comes for mana saving.

My stats as it goes are : 9915+ haste for the Bonus Enveloping mist tick which is rly good for tank healing. 7k spirit ( i dont need more, ive been with 18k but i finished all the fights with 70% + mana, so i decided to push my HPS and remove the spirit from my gems and gear) and finally i am 27% spell crit raid buffed, which is awesome when it comes to our Mana tea stacks. Every single fight i top the healing and hps meter and never go OOM. Only at Horidon when we go in the last phase i enter it with 80% mana then at the end of the fight i was around 10% with 3-4 + staks of mana tea. I will provide armory link if u want one,but im writing this from work and i am logged out with my PvP gear atm.

PS: forgot to mention that i am with the legendary meta gem and when it procs i do Jab>Tiger Paw>Jab>Tiger Paw = which is 8% pure mana restore and if u count the 2 chi spended they are another 2% mana so with every proc of the gem i get 10% mana back. which is awesome. Ive seen Hpaladins and Resto druids and resto shamies and the priest struggling with mana with over 16k+ spirit builds. There is no such healing management like the MW

This is my armory link i forced my brother to log in and gear me up http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ADendha/simple though i need to replace this shitty off hand :S

PS: im playing with flask for INTELECT and Food buf with INTENECT too
PS: The haste is 6k+ but when u go in MW stance it is above 9915.

[Deleted]

Fistweaving has evolved past it's meaning in 5.0/5.1 where all you did was keep SZ up and use Jab for uplift. Fistweaving is now a lot more developed and fleshed out, but as a result there's next to no interchangeability between plain mistweaving and fistweaving. Every time you jab now, it needs to be followed through with a blackout kick or tiger palm within the next 15 seconds to expend the muscle memory it has generated. Fistweaving now does a lot less healing, but a lot more damage.

As a result, you now need to make a conscious decision and plan your timing to fit fistweaving into a period of time in any given fight. Some mistweavers use fistweaving primarily on farm encounters just to get it over with quickly, you can use it to push harsh dps checks as well (Qon second winds etc.), and others just don't bother with it now because it is punishing to mess up.

Anyway, yes you should use fistweaving in some circumstances, and you can find out more about the current implementation and how to use it in the guide thread I have here.

[burmaben]

9915+ haste for the Bonus Enveloping mist tick which is rly good for tank healing.

That breakpoint is at 9915 without serpent stance, which translates to in the 14k's with serpent stance. the 6141 breakpoint only gives you a tick of REM (there is an EM breakpoint at likt 5300 or something).

Reg is right though, there are certain times you'll want to fistweave and certain times it's worthless. Take the time to look at fight mechnics and then as you progress you'll figure it out easily OP.

[Deleted]

So, in terms of on progression encounters i should carry on using pure mist weaving, but on farmed encounters where the dps would be of benefit i should incorporate fistweaving?

[burmaben]

Some progression encounters will have a lot of downtime that you can fistweave in. Others such as horridon have huge damage multipliers that you can fistweave it. for any type of burst healing or heavy damage phases mistweaving trumps fistweaving.

[Deleted]

Excellent makes sense, thanks guys

[Akurenia]

PS: The haste is 6k+ but when u go in MW stance it is above 9915.

Uhm 9915 is for unbuffed (aka windwalker stance) so you should end up with roughly 15k haste to get that breakpoint.

[Jase]

Not sure if it helps but I will tell you the instances I find myself fistweaving, it's actually very useful when doing progression fights when dmg is tight as well.

Horridon for the first few minutes I generally fistweave Horridon on this and it gives me good positioning for Dire Calls. I Chi Torpedo out through raid, Chi Burst to Horridon through raid and Chi Torpedo twice more through raid, mana is never an issue.

CoE For progression I fistweaved at the start to help with dmg. I don't find myself doing it that much anymore but I still will some weeks if I'm bored.

Megaera When we were trying to push heads on progression I always fistweaved them, I also still to this day always help when the Wyrms spawn and are all grouped. We actually do fairly decent dmg with our BoK and it allows our better single target dps to stay on head entire time.

Ji-Kun I am one of our nest groups, our group has to deal with 2 separate guardians and the only person who beats me in our group on dmg to eggs is an ele shaman. This isn't to knock our other dmg it's actually very good, but with BoK I just happen to do very good dmg to eggs. Our group only goes with 4 ppl, sometimes it's just 3 me a warlock and the ele shaman even with a nest guardian we wreck them. All the other groups do 5 ppl in our raid, but fistweaving is very strong in the nests.

Primordius We assign groups to take out adds for buffs, more often than not I go and help out a single dps so they can get their buffs very quickly. We get the add to around 900k and then I have them go to the newly spawned one while I finish it off and use Touch of Death. They end up being one of the first dps to mutate.

Twin Consorts For our first kill I had to fistweave until day because our dmg wasn't good enough without me doing that. Still even now after we reach day and aoe down all the adds we have most of our dps stay on the bosses while a few ppl including myself aoe them all down. In a few seconds I put out millions of dmg in to those and it lets our dps get the bosses lower.

Hope that helps you, best of luck.

[DechCJC]

Hell yeah, you have no idea how many times my fistweaving has made a difference between a kill and a wipe, not because of the passive healing it does but because of how much damage it does - I'm hitting near 300k tiger palms in my gear atm - Seriously, fistweaving is like having an extra DPS that can heal as much as any other healer.

Heroic consorts for example, did 30m damage over the entire fight and we barely made the kill even then - Every little counts and mistweavers are able to give more than 'a little'. Honestly, fuckin' love this spec - Haven't enjoyed raiding so much in a while xD Wouldn't be surprised if we saw a few nerfs next patch tbh.

Edit

^ Post above summarizes it pretty well What's great about fistweaving also is that if you have the legendary meta gem, fistweaving gives you free mana back (due from jab not costing mana and getting mana from muscle memory) - I'm finding it extremely difficult to go oom even fully reforged out of spirit atm, even if i'm CONSTANTLY fistweaving/mistweaving (that's something you should try really, if there's no damage - do damage yourself, even if there's a bit of damage you can still fistweave and just uplift every so often).

[SmashNDash15]

I Chi Torpedo out through raid, Chi Burst to Horridon through raid and Chi Torpedo twice more through raid, mana is never an issue.

Oh you took Chi Burst and Chi Torpedo over Chi Wave and Xuen? GG, you fail. (Xuen = 120k hps when cleaving 3+ targets and about 60-70k burst hps on single targets)

[Totaltotemic]

Oh you took Chi Burst and Chi Torpedo over Chi Wave and Xuen? GG, you fail. (Xuen = 120k hps when cleaving 3+ targets and about 60-70k burst hps on single targets)

Try not to be so condescending when you're completely exaggerating with no proof. Xuen can't possibly do 120k hps as that would imply that it's doing 100k DPS, you're overvaluing it by a good 2x. Chi Wave is also nearly useless in 25 man raids because the person you most need to heal is unlikely to be within decent bounce range of an enemy target.

On topic: Fistweaving and "Mistweaving" are not mutually exclusive. While it is true that every Jab must be followed by a Tiger Palm or Blackout Kick, that only bottles fistweaving into a 2 button combo, it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to use that combo several times in a row. You can just as easily toss in a spare Jab/TP when you don't have anything better to do or during LMG procs for free mana. Serpent's Zeal is so worthless now that the entire duration worth of healing barely makes up for the fact that Blackout Kick uses 2 chi instead of 1, so you should just ignore it as a buff. Since you'll always be in melee anyways (if you're not, you're seriously underusing a major benefit of being a Mistweaver to ignore raid mechanics), think of Jab/TP as one button that happens to cost 2 GCDs and throw that in when necessary just like you would an SCK or a Soothing Mist. It won't generate chi, but it does damage which may help your raid in the long run (much more so in 10 man than in 25 man, but it still helps).

[Deleted]

Try not to be so condescending when you're completely exaggerating with no proof. Xuen can't possibly do 120k hps as that would imply that it's doing 240k DPS, you're overvaluing it by a good 3-4x. Chi Wave is also nearly useless in 25 man raids because the person you most need to heal is unlikely to be within decent bounce range of an enemy target.

Xuen still does 120% damage as healing, and on 3 targets he can easily do 80k DPS.

[Totaltotemic]

Xuen still does 120% damage as healing, and on 3 targets he can easily do 80k DPS.

I keep forgetting that he's special (remind me again why Xuen doesn't just do double damage for Mistweavers and half healing...?), but even so 120k hps is a gross exaggeration for someone that would care at all what anyone is using for Horridon and "omfg nub u r doin it wrong" posts are typically frowned upon in any healer discussion.

[SmashNDash15]

"omfg nub u r doin it wrong" posts are typically frowned upon in any healer discussion.

Please find the above portion in one of my statements...you won't find it.

Chi Wave is also nearly useless in 25 man raids because the person you most need to heal is unlikely to be within decent bounce range of an enemy target.

Ah, didn't realize we were only talking about 25-man raiding. I'm pretty sure the OP question was about general Fistweaving and whether it is viable overall (versus in a specific setting, like 25-man raids) and how to implement it. Talents are situationally appropriate, generally speaking, but the talents that are most often useful (regardless of raid positioning) are Xuen and Chi Wave. Granted talents like Chi Torpedo and Chi Burst have great effectiveness when your raid is tightly stacked or in a straight line, but that type of positioning RARELY occurs during the Horridon encounter.

Just because you're partial to a particular talent's use with your setup, it doesn't make it the best choice overall for the majority.

[Totaltotemic]

Please find the above portion in one of my statements...you won't find it.



Ah, didn't realize we were only talking about 25-man raiding. I'm pretty sure the OP question was about general Fistweaving and whether it is viable overall (versus in a specific setting, like 25-man raids) and how to implement it. Talents are situationally appropriate, generally speaking, but the talents that are most often useful (regardless of raid positioning) are Xuen and Chi Wave. Granted talents like Chi Torpedo and Chi Burst have great effectiveness when your raid is tightly stacked or in a straight line, but that type of positioning RARELY occurs during the Horridon encounter.

Just because you're partial to a particular talent's use with your setup, it doesn't make it the best choice overall for the majority.

Just stop, your post had nothing to do with the topic, was insulting to someone that was making decent points, and was clearly by someone that raids 25 mans if you click any of the links in his signature. The fact that you made an account specifically to insult someone without any kind of reasoned argument is pathetic and one of the things that continually degenerates this forum.

[SmashNDash15]

Just stop, your post had nothing to do with the topic, was insulting to someone that was making decent points, and was clearly by someone that raids 25 mans if you click any of the links in his signature. The fact that you made an account specifically to insult someone without any kind of reasoned argument is pathetic and one of the things that continually degenerates this forum.

Good thing you're arguing your point with facts and logic instead of making your own heady assumptions about people. You have done nothing to disprove the fact that my points are valid, and therefore you're guilty of the very injustices you believe me to be committing. If anyone here contributes to the degenerative nature of the forum, it's you.

[jayphil]

I always wondered when fistweaving post 5.2 would come in handy. At the moment im on 10/13H ToT.

It was always up for debate because of how much dps is required versus howmuch healing I needed to do. Reglitch made a very helpful thread regarding fistweaving play method and it certainly has its place in a tot.

Ive found that on council during sul, jk platforms, durumu outside of spectrum phase and twins on p1 were amazing and successful dps and hps wise opportunities to fw.

Someone mentioned that its quite a strict healing style and quite taxing on mana so if u stuff up a proc you'll see it sooner than you think in ur mana than u were if u were mw.

[Kakera]

I keep forgetting that he's special (remind me again why Xuen doesn't just do double damage for Mistweavers and half healing...?), but even so 120k hps is a gross exaggeration for someone that would care at all what anyone is using for Horridon and "omfg nub u r doin it wrong" posts are typically frowned upon in any healer discussion.

Exaggerated? Yeah. Possible still? Yeah, assuming no overheal. The numbers are there. It's just that there's are very little circumstances that would be 100% no overheal.