Thread: Haste as demo

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  1. #41
    My argument is that with the typical number of pulls people will have during the tier (which is likely to be way below 1000), you barely even notice the PPM difference caused by haste. You are right in that you don't know when a proc would have been missed with lower haste, but the same way you don't know when it wouldn't have been with more. If you look at the actual impact of haste on proc chance within the values we are talking about (usually max. 6000 haste rating), the difference is quite small. It would even out statistically if the number of pulls is large enough - but it usually isn't. That means that you very well might find yourself in a position of insignificantly more procs over someone with more haste, if you look at the total number of pulls throughout the tier. Plus, these procs are still subject to "bad timing", i.e. they may very well land in periods where you don't need them (like Lei Shen transition, or in mid-air on Ji-Kun, or whatever). Haste doesn't change the timing, in fact a higher chance only increases the likelihood of it happening (more procs total = more procs in bad spots, too). Mastery on the other hand retains its value throughout.

    That being said, I'm only talking about haste's value for PPM here. Haste has other benefits, most of which are constant and not subject to RNG. I still believe that breakpoints are worth going for, if you have the gear for it. All I'm saying is that PPM is not a reason to go for haste; other things very well may be. But not PPM alone.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by spamheals View Post
    you want 8090 haste as demo and then you want to go crit untill you get LSUV when you get that go more mastery currently crit is simming higher for demo then other stats as of now im currently running about 8098 haste and then about 22% unbuffed crit and about 19% mastery so a good balance of all 3 us probably what you want to shoot for.
    This is the first I have ever seen/heard of crit being better than Mastery or Haste for Demonology and I'm not so sure it's correct. Do you have any information, logs, sims, or anything that remotely backs this up? Because this is completely opposite what I've found to be correct.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    You won't notice it in a pull by pull basis, but much the same as it's averaged on SimC, it's averaged in reality. You don't know it when you a get a proc you wouldn't have with less haste, nor is there an indicator saying "you would've had a proc here" when you're in a mastery build.

    Mastery will give you higher low-end DPS (bad procs) and higher high-end DPS (good procs). Haste will shift what we consider "bad procs" to be less common and what we consider "good procs" to be more common - not so much that bad procs don't happen, and good procs happen even if you had 0 haste - but some. I find that when DPS checks are really tight and we're pulling in a short window of time after wipes, I prefer a higher haste - missing a UVLS proc under meta + Breath + Time Warp at the start is a HUGE DPS loss (especially as sac, say for Council), and the variance from that alone is a giant kick to my potential damage for a pull. I'd rather be a couple thousand lower on most pulls than see more pulls where I'm missing 20-30k from where I normally run - but this pretty much only happens if we speed-pull a boss after wipes. I also get our bear to res me so I can try to push that "time since last proc" just a bit further.
    I very rarely have a problem missing, ULVS+breath+meta at pull with 8100 haste. The trick is not releasing and getting a rezz from a fellow player and making your raid leaders aware of the situation with RPPM trinkets "timers" resetting on loading screens

    This is the first I have ever seen/heard of crit being better than Mastery or Haste for Demonology and I'm not so sure it's correct. Do you have any information, logs, sims, or anything that remotely backs this up? Because this is completely opposite what I've found to be correct.
    your right the person you quoted is providing outdated information(pre meta pre uvls) when crit was better and even then was extremely arguable
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

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