View Poll Results: Buffind racials overly to promote growth in a faction.

Voters
144. You may not vote on this poll
  • Strong action has to be taken buff them big

    22 15.28%
  • Bring the horde racials down

    17 11.81%
  • Leave the racials as they are.

    58 40.28%
  • Remove racials and find another way to buff alliance raiding.

    47 32.64%
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  1. #41
    Moderator Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragashii View Post
    Just makes the racials cosmetic and you fix the imbalance.
    I agree. Give each race a minor cosmetic effect or two, and put them all on par with one another. Remove the perceived need to pick one side/race over the other and let personal preference be the main decider.

  2. #42
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Racials are fine. It's probably such a very small percentage of players who chooses their race based on a miniscule-at-best performance enhancement in end-game content that it's probably not worth going in there and giving it some kind of major overhaul.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Roflifier View Post
    Regardless of what the change is going to accomplish, changing something to cause someone to purchase something than taking it back is illegal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch
    Bait-and-switch is a form of fraud used in retail sales but also practiced in other contexts. First, customers are "baited" by merchants' advertising products or services at a low price, but when customers visit the store, they discover that the advertised goods are not available, or the customers are pressured by sales people to consider similar, but higher priced items ("switching"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch
    When you went to the blizzard store you were able to change to horde at the time, so in say a week if they make alliance racials more powerful there was no bait and switch. you made a choice to go horde when the opportunity arose and now they can decide if they wish to go alliance

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-11 at 02:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    Racials are fine. It's probably such a very small percentage of players who chooses their race based on a miniscule-at-best performance enhancement in end-game content that it's probably not worth going in there and giving it some kind of major overhaul.
    It is not just the racials tho, as mentioned due to the high amount of top raiders that made the decision to go horde many raiders also went horde due to the amount of players able to raid and having a larger recruitment pool to draw from.

    Now you say racials are ok and only effect a small minority of the playbase, well that small minority effects a much larger plyer base then the racials themselves.

    So we need to attract the small minority back to alliance and then hopefully a few of the larger playerbase will also follow suit.

  4. #44
    Nerfing humans is all thats really needed (the only race that makes fundamental difference in play)

  5. #45
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgePayne View Post
    Now you say racials are ok and only effect a small minority of the playbase, well that small minority effects a much larger plyer base then the racials themselves.

    So we need to attract the small minority back to alliance and then hopefully a few of the larger playerbase will also follow suit.
    I think you're very much overestimating the amount of influence that big guilds have over players. I'd be willing to bet that most WoW players don't know who the top raiding guilds are, what faction they play for, and how they macro their racials, nor do they probably even care since the vast majority of players don't give a tiny shred about raid content outside of LFR where racials are entirely irrelevant anyway because they'll never even do that content anyway.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    I think you're very much overestimating the amount of influence that big guilds have over players. I'd be willing to bet that most WoW players don't know who the top raiding guilds are, what faction they play for, and how they macro their racials, nor do they probably even care since the vast majority of players don't give a tiny shred about raid content outside of LFR where racials are entirely irrelevant anyway because they'll never even do that content anyway.
    Ok lets look at this, the average stream views people from guilds such as midwinter, dream paragon, vodka and method got were in the thousands. Blizzard makes a special effort to ask the best guilds to come to the majority of live events and do a live raid as guests of blizzard and these events pull in hundreds of thousands if not millions of viewers.

    mmo champion and other wow sites during the race to #1 have daily updates about the top guilds, the interviews with their top players and the current progression that each guild is achieving. mmo champion currently is getting 34,875 unique visitors per day.

    So yeah there are a lot of wow players who know top guild and progression info and if they speak about what they saw or read to even 2 unique people then the number blows up.

    TL;DR People know about top raiding guild

  7. #47
    So ... your solution is to make Alliance OPed so ALL the guilds move back leaving the Horde side a desolated wasteland.

    You solve one problem by creating another. Net gain = zero.

    ...

    >.>

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Noraktar View Post
    Racials should affect the gameplay even more. Screw the balancing issues, this game needs less homogenization in every aspect.
    100% this, we should have more diversity and less homogenization!!

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    So ... your solution is to make Alliance OPed so ALL the guilds move back leaving the Horde side a desolated wasteland.

    You solve one problem by creating another. Net gain = zero.

    ...

    >.>
    No I would want to attract say 1/3 of the top raiding guilds to alliance since a lot of their players are horde fans 4 life and that is fine, I only want to bring back the guilds that were alliance and switched horde. After wotlk 4 of the top 15 guilds went alliance to horde and now again another 6 top raiding alliance guilds went horde. we need something big to entice them back.

  10. #50
    Make all the racials give cosmetic and utility benefits. They should not increase character power unless they are identical, in which case they would be boring and pointless.

    The combat racials are also largely irrelevant from a flavour point of view . The alternatives could achieve identical results in that sense.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgePayne View Post
    No I would want to attract say 1/3 of the top raiding guilds to alliance since a lot of their players are horde fans 4 life and that is fine, I only want to bring back the guilds that were alliance and switched horde. After wotlk 4 of the top 15 guilds went alliance to horde and now again another 6 top raiding alliance guilds went horde. we need something big to entice them back.
    You know, the conspiracy nut in me feels that Blizzard might have done this on purpose.

    In vanilla, Alliance = PVE, Horde = PVP.

    Solution: Make Horde OPed in PVE - Berseking, Blood Fury etc. Make Alliance OPed in PVP - LOLEMFH.

    Those who only care about "numbers" will switch, evening out the PVE/PVP populations - while everyone else either don't give a damn or is too lazy/cheap to switch.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    You know, the conspiracy nut in me feels that Blizzard might have done this on purpose.

    In vanilla, Alliance = PVE, Horde = PVP.

    Solution: Make Horde OPed in PVE - Berseking, Blood Fury etc. Make Alliance OPed in PVP - LOLEMFH.

    Those who only care about "numbers" will switch, evening out the PVE/PVP populations - while everyone else either don't give a damn or is too lazy/cheap to switch.
    EMFH is great in pvp but a good chunk of the top pvpers in both RBG'S and Arena are still playing horde side forsaken etc.

    in pve the horde have about 85% of the top raiders. the alliance do not have 85% of the top pvpers, maybe 60% maybe.

  13. #53
    Scarab Lord Granyala's Avatar
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    Just makes the racials cosmetic and you fix the imbalance.
    I'd agree with this. Never cared about them anyway, since I choose Draenei because I love them.
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgePayne View Post
    The idea is to draw people back to the alliance and then once the numbers are in an even distribution remove the racials.

    As said on another thread from a member of dread, "if you removed racials in the morning guilds would remain horde as there would be no reason to become alliance".

    so we need to bring some of the guilds back to alliance to even the numbers, and how do we do that.

    By giving the alliance racials a boost to get some of the horde guilds to return to the alliance.
    So bait and switch players into changing. Ending up with tons of pissed off players and ppl that would just switch back. Such an insanely horrible idea. Incredibly short sighted and this would destroy overall populations down the road and leave you back where you started.
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  15. #55
    That last answer's kind of a loaded question. I mean, I don't care which faction or race people decide to play; it's ultimately irrelevant to me. If there was 1 alliance player and everyone else was a horde player, in a world without racials, that's perfectly fine with me.

    While racials are a problem, something needs to be put there to replace it, as a meaningful decision for character advancement. There's just far too little seperating one character from another of the same class, and removing the racial dynamic, as much of a good change overall it might be, would reduce character creation/advancement even further.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    So bait and switch players into changing. Ending up with tons of pissed off players and ppl that would just switch back. Such an insanely horrible idea. Incredibly short sighted and this would destroy overall populations down the road and leave you back where you started.
    I love how you have not read any of the follow up posts,

    The idea would be to gather 1/3 of the top raiding guilds and those who follows them back to alliance for say 5.4, then come 6.0 remove all combat influencing racials all together.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgePayne View Post
    I find it strange that alot of the votes are to leave the racials the way they are even though it is hugely inbalanced
    Perhaps because the options offered do not reflect what some of us think, trying to have more balanced racials.
    Or even complete removal of combat bonuses without any one-sided buffing of any sort.

    Both are options not covered by the poll.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgePayne View Post
    I love how you have not read any of the follow up posts,

    The idea would be to gather 1/3 of the top raiding guilds and those who follows them back to alliance for say 5.4, then come 6.0 remove all combat influencing racials all together.
    Which is a bait and switch. I mean, unless you tell them beforehand, in which case the only people who change will be the people who want to be alliance (who would have done it anyway) and the people who want the best stats (who might change back, might not, but even then, people who pick a race for combat bonuses aren't exclusively Horde).

    He's read your followup posts, he just thinks your motivation behind implementing such a change is dumb.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  19. #59
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgePayne View Post
    Now firstly this thread is going to contain opinions that come from an alliance point of view and reflect that accordingly.

    This thread was in responce to the decline in alliance raiding topic brought up but I wanted a poll for results.
    See my signature for the problem with your anecdotes about alliance raiding. You have no hard data, none, to suggest there's a disproportionate decline in Alliance raiding. The reality is that the Alliance have much worse players. They always have. That's exactly why I went back to Horde at the start of BC, after playing Alliance from 1.4 until Vanilla ended: I was tired of wiping to content I could do too drunk to stand, because any time we recruited 5 people, 4 turned out to be idiots who thought fire effects were power ups, and the fifth was some hillbilly fuck who couldn't keep his homophobia and childish anti-Semitism off Ventrilo.

    The reality is you want something absurdly OP for a racial and you aren't going to get it. (Double damage Chaos Bolts, great idea, just what I need today -- more knee-jerk nerfs because some fresh 90 in greens got 2-shotted, screencapped, and cried his way to the WoW forums...oh, and I'm sure a Shatter combo for a million wouldn't ruffle feathers).
    The plural of anecdote is not "data".

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcanasm View Post
    See my signature for the problem with your anecdotes about alliance raiding. You have no hard data, none, to suggest there's a disproportionate decline in Alliance raiding. The reality is that the Alliance have much worse players. They always have. That's exactly why I went back to Horde at the start of BC, after playing Alliance from 1.4 until Vanilla ended: I was tired of wiping to content I could do too drunk to stand, because any time we recruited 5 people, 4 turned out to be idiots who thought fire effects were power ups, and the fifth was some hillbilly fuck who couldn't keep his homophobia and childish anti-Semitism off Ventrilo.

    The reality is you want something absurdly OP for a racial and you aren't going to get it. (Double damage Chaos Bolts, great idea, just what I need today -- more knee-jerk nerfs because some fresh 90 in greens got 2-shotted, screencapped, and cried his way to the WoW forums...oh, and I'm sure a Shatter combo for a million wouldn't ruffle feathers).
    No data provided, hmmm I have linked the exact words of a member of dread on his taughts about the current situation firstly, secondly there is another thread ongoing with regards to the decline in alliance raiding also which has good statistics for you to examine.

    The point of this thread was to generate discussion about the "possibility of vastly improving the alliance pve potential" Orcs, Trolls and Belfs really do not seem to like the idea of the alliance getting better racials at all.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-11 at 04:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    He's read your followup posts, he just thinks your motivation behind implementing such a change is dumb.
    Then by all means please offer a suggestion on how get the alliance players who went horde purely for progression purposes back to alliance.

    Calling an idea dumb or stupid and then not offering any idea of your own is quite funny. At least I am trying to find a remedy for the current situation.

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