is WoW still an mmo?

[Dolus]

no its not, its a solo game with a queue

Log on-->Queue-->play or afk through the content-->win-->Log out.

Compared to SWTOR - WoW is a MMO.

[Zdrasti]

WoW is an MMO much like a Big Mac is a burger. Packaged for mass consumption, addicting, yet low quality.

[Thimagryn]

Point it out to me. I might have missed it.

I'm saying the game doesn't have enough lore!! What is so hard to understand?

I expect that epic quality items have lore behind them.

You can count literally on one hand the number of items in this game that have a "history". This is pathetic for an RPG.

I hope you realize that there aren't many gear-based progression RPGs with extensive item lore. Lore is usually reserved for a handful of special items, which already exists in that regard with certain epics and legendaries. If this is pathetic for an RPG, what RPG would be a good example for item lore?

[Deleted]

I hope you realize that there aren't many gear-based progression RPGs with extensive item lore. Lore is usually reserved for a handful of special items, which already exists in that regard with certain epics and legendaries. If this is pathetic for an RPG, what RPG would be a good example for item lore?

not to mention the fact that it would be completely impossible to create meaningful lore at the pace on which new items are introduced. as i see it, that kind of detail should be reserved to end boss weapons and above all legendaries.

[SodiumChloride]

I hope you realize that there aren't many gear-based progression RPGs with extensive item lore. Lore is usually reserved for a handful of special items, which already exists in that regard with certain epics and legendaries. If this is pathetic for an RPG, what RPG would be a good example for item lore?

I'm not asking for much, no need to be as detailed as Quel'Delar, a simple history on the "general weapon type" would have been sufficient - e.g. "Hammer X is of Dwarven make, from the Second War, designed to break Orc armour".

Seriously billions of dollars and they can't hire a couple more writers to "fill out the world"?

[Kelimbror]

Seriously billions of dollars and they can't hire a couple more writers to "fill out the world"?

And this is why I can't keep trying to respond to you seriously. If you don't see lore in WoW, even on items, then you aren't really looking for it. I can't name one game other than a SW universe that has more lore than this one. And that's because it has a plethora of movies, hundreds if not thousands of written works/comics, and has been around for much longer. Maybe Middle Earth/LotRO, but that has one of the greatest fantasy writers of all time, who invented languages, behind it all.

To have this much lore from a series of RTS games that began in the 90's is just staggering. You must not realize how many people they have creating these things.

Here are some links for you, though I know you don't actually care but just want to complain:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/lore/
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...aft-Lore-Guide
http://www.wowwiki.com/History_of_Warcraft

Take the rest of the week off and enjoy.

[Hagank]

Lore is great, but community feeling trumps it all. I miss a lot having to look for a 5th member in trade channel to fill my dungeon group, eventually getting a wisper from someone I already grouped before, etc., altought it is ofc so much easier log and LFG with 4 randoms. Same thing happened with professions...I wish Blizzard just hard capped the main trade skills to 2 per account. It's so retarded logging 4-5 alts to craft some recipes and we all got alts for every single thing.
Blizzard discovered a way to make a solo MMORPG, where you don't need to Interact at all, ever!

[SodiumChloride]

And this is why I can't keep trying to respond to you seriously. If you don't see lore in WoW, even on items, then you aren't really looking for it. I can't name one game other than a SW universe that has more lore than this one. And that's because it has a plethora of movies, hundreds if not thousands of written works/comics, and has been around for much longer. Maybe Middle Earth/LotRO, but that has one of the greatest fantasy writers of all time, who invented languages, behind it all.

To have this much lore from a series of RTS games that began in the 90's is just staggering. You must not realize how many people they have creating these things.

Here are some links for you, though I know you don't actually care but just want to complain:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/lore/
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...aft-Lore-Guide
http://www.wowwiki.com/History_of_Warcraft

Take the rest of the week off and enjoy.

Despite your "assumptions", I have actually read most of Wowwikipedia and it's newer cousin Wowpedia. So you can stop asking me to read them.

I'm not impressed. There are stories, yes. But the physical reality of the world is not as fleshed out as I would like. Blizzard really needs to do some serious "world building" and flesh out (and sort out the inconsistencies of) the game universe. The "what is what" has to be detailed. You might feel they are irrelevant details, but to me they are important in making the world feel "solid". I need to know the "science"/"technology" of the world.

[Kelimbror]

I'm not impressed. There are stories, yes. But the physical reality of the world is not as fleshed out as I would like. Blizzard really needs to do some serious "world building" and flesh out (and sort out the inconsistencies of) the game universe. The "what is what" has to be detailed. You might feel they are irrelevant details, but to me they are important in making the world feel "solid". I need to know the "science"/"technology" of the world.

I would like to know what has to be spelled out to you in order to feel like there is enough lore in a game. Please provide examples, since your criticism keeps bouncing back and forth in severity and subject. The creation of the world is still largely a mystery that involves the titans and old gods. Much of the dragonflight backstory provides more details into its creation.

Many of these foundations are explained via dungeons and raids, quest chains, etc. A lot of things also changed with Cataclysm, which means some lore has been 'lost' so to speak.

[SodiumChloride]

I would like to know what has to be spelled out to you in order to feel like there is enough lore in a game. Please provide examples, since your criticism keeps bouncing back and forth in severity and subject. The creation of the world is still largely a mystery that involves the titans and old gods. Much of the dragonflight backstory provides more details into its creation.

Many of these foundations are explained via dungeons and raids, quest chains, etc. A lot of things also changed with Cataclysm, which means some lore has been 'lost' so to speak.

Those help. But I want more. How does magic work? What are the rules and limitations? What exactly is the Twisting Nether (conflicting lore regarding this)? Extra trivia like the "make" of a gun/sword/shield/armour, mechanisms/workings of various items and trinkets, all helps make the world much more immersive.

There is too much mystery and not enough for players to hang on to - ideally there needs to be a balance; no need to explain everything, but you must explain enough such that the players know what is what. You must put your foot down on at least some areas regarding the "rules" of your universe.

PS: Also dungeons like BRDs that feel like real places need to be brought back - but I'm digressing.

[Kelimbror]

Those help. But I want more. How does magic work? What are the rules and limitations? What exactly is the Twisting Nether (conflicting lore regarding this)? Extra trivia like the "make" of a gun/sword/shield/armour all helps make the world much more immersive.

Dungeons like BRDs that feel like real places need to be brought back - by I'm digressing.

There is too much mystery and not enough for players to hang on to - ideally there needs to be a balance; no need to explain everything, but you must explain enough such that the players know what is what.

Ok, this is a bit more understandable. Unfortunately the lore is not going to be in your face, because a large portion of the playerbase doesn't want it to be. That's exactly why you get lore through quests, flavor text, and outside of the game. It's been like that ever since MMORPG's came out of the closet so to speak.

To be fair, WoW actually gives ways for people to choose 'more lore' in very direct ways compared to other games. This expansion provided the whole Lorewalker concept, with the scrolls littered around Pandaria, and how Archy ties into lore. That's really where the bulk of backstory for geography and races comes from. And to be even more fair, that's how we determine lore in the real world too you know. By digging up artifacts, reading old books, and listening to people tell stories.

Anything other than that is arbitrary and forced. Whether you like the story the game tells is subjective and I won't judge (some people just hate Metzen's hand on everything) but it's there.

[Gimlix]

WoW is an MMO much like a Big Mac is a burger. Packaged for mass consumption, addicting, yet low quality.

Low Quality?

If WoW was low Quality then millions of people wouldn't pay 15 euros a month just to get some low Quality.
WoW is one of the best Quality.

[SodiumChloride]

Ok, this is a bit more understandable. Unfortunately the lore is not going to be in your face, because a large portion of the playerbase doesn't want it to be. That's exactly why you get lore through quests, flavor text, and outside of the game. It's been like that ever since MMORPG's came out of the closet so to speak.

To be fair, WoW actually gives ways for people to choose 'more lore' in very direct ways compared to other games. This expansion provided the whole Lorewalker concept, with the scrolls littered around Pandaria, and how Archy ties into lore. That's really where the bulk of backstory for geography and races comes from. And to be even more fair, that's how we determine lore in the real world too you know. By digging up artifacts, reading old books, and listening to people tell stories.

Anything other than that is arbitrary and forced. Whether you like the story the game tells is subjective and I won't judge (some people just hate Metzen's hand on everything) but it's there.

I really am way too quick on the submit button. >< I explained a bit more in my edit.

Lorewalker deals with the stories and history of the people of Pandaria - which is good. But that's all it does. The "rules" of the WoW universe remains ever vague.

My favourite lore to date is in WotLK where they explain the origins of the humans, dwarves and gnomes. How they were more or less elemental or mechanical in the beginning ... so on and so forth.

As for Arch ... all that lore should be on "real items of importance". Quest items that play a big part in the story. Epic weapons, armour and trinkets ... etc.

Lastly, more consistency would be nice. Wowpedia says Verdant Spheres were Blood Mage weapons ... now we have Warlocks walking around with them as a resource indicator ... >.>

[Taurenburger]

Yes it is. You´ll be playing with a lot of other people online. Whether you want it or not, you´ll eventually have contact with quite some people.

[Kelimbror]

>.>

I believe they are pretty much done with establishing the laws of their world...most of it is implied or directly discussed in the various race lore and the rest (titan stuff) is being hidden for now. Background lore in the game largely ended when the Cataclysm came. They are striking out into material that is 100% new when the last 4 iterations of the game heavily relied on stories they have already created. It takes a different approach to put that out there.

If we really are getting a Burning Legion invasion again, I think you'll get your wish on how our world works. It won't be too much longer before we start having to go to the Titans, but that's like world altering information. I think that's their trump card they will hold on to as long as possible. Really it's set up to be the largest showdown ever, between old gods, titans, and the real powers behind the burning legion.

I think what you want in the larger picture has been building and you would be satisifed with the end result, but like any story before it's over you can't giev everything away.

I'll give you that there are often inconsitencies and retcons...pretty much expected in video game lore and most lore in general these days unfortunately.

[ComputerNerd]

Being able to do stuff solo, which applies to every other MMO out there does not stop it being an MMO.
Multi-player games do not cease to be that when played by a single person.

The RPG part is questionable, because really where is the control in developing your character.
You do not gain any meaningful alliances or enemies, you do not make any meaningful decisions which will impact the rest of your game play experience.
Something you do at level 10 is not going to mean anything for more than a few levels at best.
The progression is in mostly random loot, and not controlled or chosen.

Better RPG's tend to be the solo games, since the experience and results of your decisions can be catered to without having to screw around with the experiences of others.

[SodiumChloride]

I believe they are pretty much done with establishing the laws of their world...most of it is implied or directly discussed in the various race lore and the rest (titan stuff) is being hidden for now. Background lore in the game largely ended when the Cataclysm came. They are striking out into material that is 100% new when the last 4 iterations of the game heavily relied on stories they have already created. It takes a different approach to put that out there.

If we really are getting a Burning Legion invasion again, I think you'll get your wish on how our world works. It won't be too much longer before we start having to go to the Titans, but that's like world altering information. I think that's their trump card they will hold on to as long as possible. Really it's set up to be the largest showdown ever, between old gods, titans, and the real powers behind the burning legion.

I think what you want in the larger picture has been building and you would be satisifed with the end result, but like any story before it's over you can't giev everything away.

I'll give you that there are often inconsitencies and retcons...pretty much expected in video game lore and most lore in general these days unfortunately.

and didn't bother to tell us ...

What is available now is so vague as to be "useless". (It's fine if you want to "black box" some stuff, but you can't black box all of it!!)

[melodramocracy]

I'm sorry but you don't get to redefine the meaning of words just so you can push this mindless agenda. Wow is an mmo from lvl 1 all the way to lvl cap regardless of what players do or don't do.

On the most technical of levels, you're correct, this IS an MMORPG. However, the direct dependency on other players for forward advancement in many aspects of the game, is one of the main things that historically set MMO's apart from other multiplayer games, and with WoW that aspect is severely diluted.

Most of these dependencies have disappeared under the guise of 'quality of life'. Some certainly still exist... the auction house is a great example. Most players are going to hit it sooner or later for gems or enchants or glyphs. Made and sold by other players, but the transaction is as impersonal as it gets.. How different would things be if you had to deal with people directly to acquire these things?

Outside of a combat environment, I'd say that the only situation where my trust in another player matters would be a guild bank situation.

[The Madgod]

WoW is just as much of an MMO as it has always been. You can't have a game be "more" of an MMO... it's a binary classification. Either your game is an MMO or it isn't.

What you are complaining about, as Harmonious has eloquently stated, is the lack of player desire for community. The ability for it to exist is still there, but the drive for it is not and nothing Blizzard can do will change that in a healthy way. The playerbase needs to realize that they are the reason their community is so toxic and that they are responsible for fixing it, instead of being immature and blaming it on something which doesn't have much of anything to do with it.

On the most technical of levels, you're correct, this IS an MMORPG. However, the direct dependency on other players for forward advancement in many aspects of the game, is one of the main things that historically set MMO's apart from other multiplayer games, and with WoW that aspect is severely diluted.

Any significant endgame progression requires one to group up with others. This has never changed throughout WoW's history. In fact considering the variety of content which requires a group of players has increased over the years with the addition of arena, RBG's, scenarios, challenge modes, heroic dungeons, etc, the game hasn't become more diluted, it's more concentrated than ever before.

It is a MMO in the sense that there's many people playing the game, and that you need to be connected to the game server to play it.

Tetris Online would be a MMO aswell. Many people playing it, and you need to be connected to the Tetris Server to play it.

the Multiplayer in MMO means that multiple people can be playing together and interacting... unless Tetris Online has a co-op system that can support many people, it's not an MMO.

[Soaringbiscuit]

As long as I've been playing this game (since everyone was huddling up at the gate to Outland on the day BC came out) people have been saying that they wish it was more like the good-ol' days, and ranting and raving with this angry sort of nostalgia, etc. Now I'm seeing players saying they miss the days when they killed Arthas with their friends and they're bemoaning the way the raid system works now. These people are probably the same people who bemoaned the change from 40-man to 25-man and said that Arthas was too easy and heralded the end of all actual challenging raid content, etc etc etc. Now, I've been out of the game for a while now, and I'm considering coming back in, and if anything this thread has confirmed for me that nothing has actually changed, really, in terms of player temperament.