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  1. #1

    is WoW still an mmo?

    Blizzard over the years tried to casualize their game but is it possible that they changed the game so much that is it not an mmo anymore?

    To answer this we would have to ask ourselves what is an mmo really?
    Is WoW an mmo just because the game has servers with thousand of players?

    In the end really there might be hundreds of people online when you're playing the game but most of the time when you do an activity you will be involved with 10/25 man with your guild,when you quest you'll have maybe 20 players near where you are.Most of the PvP is instanced and counts 3/5/10/15 man...with the exception of alterac/wintergrasp.
    But really in the end,does this make WoW an mmo?These numbers of interaction are easily achieved by fps games and others.

    For me an mmo,that which made me so interested in WoW before I was about to start the game......is the community.
    Nothing else.There were plenty of good rpg games on consoles,but what made me turn off my ps2 and become an mmo player was other players.
    I didn't pick up the game for any kind of raid content,raid difficulty or dailies,loot...it was the ability to play with other players within a genre of game I liked.

    This is what I think made WoW an mmo back then and this is what I think does not make WoW an mmo today.
    WoW has not prioritized it's most important feature for a long time,it's community.

    And it may have never have.From what I know WoW was already a game trying to be casual when it came out.It tried to be more accessible and easier then other mmo's like everquest.But it was still quite the hardcore game.And this is important,hardcore aspects do good for the community aspect of the game.
    After all isn't it strange how the tightest guilds are the ones that raid the hardest?And the most loose guilds are the so called social guilds with hundreds of players but the chat is a ghost story?
    That's when Blizzard's casualizing was not damaging the hardcore aspects that were sustaining the community.

    Blizzard just kept casualizing the game and taking the community aspect for granted or maybe even not thinking it has any worth.
    Today all WoW has to offer is it's content and what's left of the community.I'm not even implying whether the casual direction is bad or good,but what is sure is that the community aspect was left to rot,nothing was done to replace the huge support a hardcore mmo brings for community.

    Maybe Blizzard thought guilds were enough to make up for the community part of the game?I always remember Blizzard being protective of guild communities.
    So is this enough to call WoW an mmo?I don't think so.

    WoW 2006-2008/2009

    The world is real.
    Everyone you meet and play with is from your server and can be met again in the world.
    This leads to a stronger virtual indentity,the fact that you know the people you meet will be able to meet you again,or talk about you to other people on your server and that you can meet them too leads to a sense of reputation,part of the community.
    This is the floor for an mmo community to stand on to.A real server.Everyone you meet is someone you can meet again,all social experiences are more important and fun because of this.
    The hardcore aspects made great use of this.Forcing everyone to group up through hard group quests that were back then mandatory to continue quest chains.Dungeons and raids that required you to group up.

    But WoW today also has dungeons and raids that require you to group up.But they don't back up the community as much as before.Most people you meet are ''randoms''.As said this is where WoW devs were blind.All your raids,dungeons are no good if there's no community to make them feel epic.

    Why LFG was not limited to servers is beyond me.But this is really where the community starts to die.We're around 2009 I guess.
    Group quests made easier/obsolete/removed,easier dungeons and ways to gear up for raids on your own versus back in bc when dungeons were so hard you needed your guild or a group of friends to gear up or you needed to farm resistance gear in vanilla,and so these easier ways created pick-up raids vs back in bc/vanilla almost all raids were with guilds,....these are small casual changes that lessen the need for other players slowly,slowly....

    Until today,with LFR you don't even need to talk to anyone to do a raid and CRZ feature that executes the ''server experience''.
    Are we really left with an mmo?There is stuff to do with other people,yes,like in all other multiplayer games...what makes it an mmo today?
    All this time Blizz thought players played their game for their great content.But that's the mindset for non-mmo games.
    Really mmo players play an mmo for it's community backed up by great content.

    Just take a look at LFR.The big feature Blizzard hyped up before MoP.It's content without any kind of community worth and Blizz thought it would keep casual players happy but more then a million left and the whole feature is such a fail they have to make an entire new raiding mode for casual people.And it's clear this time even Blizzard is realizing the worth of community by the way they designed their flex raiding.It is so obvious.

    But is it enough to make WoW an mmo again,what more is needed or do you think the problem of WoW is not it's community?


    edit:Avoid trying to prove others wrong.Maybe I should have explained this better.It's not about the technical term.It's about the game experience as a player.For you,is WoW still an mmo or has it failed to be so and is now just a multiplayer game pretending to be an mmo?
    Last edited by ZRebellion; 2013-06-10 at 04:05 PM.

  2. #2
    mmo stands for mmassively multiplayer online, so yes, it is MMO.

  3. #3
    WoW is an interface

  4. #4
    no its not, its a solo game with a queue

    Log on-->Queue-->play or afk through the content-->win-->Log out.

  5. #5
    Dreadlord Harmonious's Avatar
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    Getting pretty tired of these threads now.

    LFG isn't limited to server because of excessive queue times.

    LFR is a good thing for people who don't have time or commitment to raid normally.

    The community is still there, the player no longer cares about it that is not Blizzards fault. It's changing attitudes towards gaming.

    MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online. That is what wow is, so unless they removed that element then yes it's still an MMO.

  6. #6
    It is a MMO in the sense that there's many people playing the game, and that you need to be connected to the game server to play it.

    Tetris Online would be a MMO aswell. Many people playing it, and you need to be connected to the Tetris Server to play it.

  7. #7
    I still play in a community, Wow hasn't changed some people are just less friendly and expect more. The moral is play with nice people.

  8. #8
    Blizzard is working on the community thing. Flex would make PUGing easier, you can set up PUGs and meet new people if you like - potentially scout for new recruits.

    For me WoW is an MMORPG. Sadly it isn't doing that well in that regard.

    The game needs more stuff for players to "geek out" on, Locations/Items(Weapons, Armour, Trinkets ... etc)/Abilities all should have "history" (when was it created/by whom/for what/how was it created/how does it "work" ... etc).

    WoW is incredibly shallow in this regard - it could almost be considered just a themed slot machine with a "throwaway plot".
    Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2013-06-10 at 02:56 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
    Getting pretty tired of these threads now.

    LFG isn't limited to server because of excessive queue times.

    LFR is a good thing for people who don't have time or commitment to raid normally.

    The community is still there, the player no longer cares about it that is not Blizzards fault. It's changing attitudes towards gaming.

    MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online. That is what wow is, so unless they removed that element then yes it's still an MMO.
    LFG not being limited to servers removes all player constraints to act like a decent person as he won't be alienating himself on his server, contributing to toxic community.

    LFR would be OK if it had blues for loot or no loot at all. Otherwise it's toxic as it forces every player to use it weekly to stay competitive, (even if they don't enjoy it), games should be fun, LFR isn't.

    The community is gone, because of things blizzard has done to the game, they are absolutely at fault because they are the ones that have implemented systems such as LFG that give players constant anonymity and require no social effort. OF COURSE that affects the community in a bad way, by simply smothering it in its crib.

    It's still an MMO, but not a good one. However, I would no longer call it an MMORPG.

  10. #10
    Field Marshal Zeozordon's Avatar
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    Yes it is.

    It has a masive player base that needs to be online, ergo Masive multiplayer online game.

    There is no question about it. the day you can play it offline and do everything in the game Solo not needing any other player with you then you can say no like Swagster did.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeozordon View Post
    Yes it is.

    It has a masive player base that needs to be online, ergo Masive multiplayer online game.

    There is no question about it. the day you can play it offline and do everything in the game Solo not needing any other player with you then you can say no like Swagster did.
    That's what makes it an mmo?In dota2 there are millions of players online,does that make it an mmo?Same with call of duty,hundred thousands online in xbox live playing the game,does that make it an mmo?
    Because you can't do everything solo it is an mmo.So is poker an mmo?

    I don't see how any of these make WoW more special then any other kind of multiplayer game.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
    Getting pretty tired of these threads now.

    LFG isn't limited to server because of excessive queue times.

    LFR is a good thing for people who don't have time or commitment to raid normally.

    The community is still there, the player no longer cares about it that is not Blizzards fault. It's changing attitudes towards gaming.

    MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online. That is what wow is, so unless they removed that element then yes it's still an MMO.
    LoL Lead Designer said this, "I'm saying I don't think raids should be inclusive, as the exclusivity of content creates a psychological trick in your brain that makes the game feel endless. Basically, my direction would be (and maybe incorrectly - I haven't tried!) that all content is not for everyone."

    And I completely agree. I honestly feel this applies to this discussion. Community and your reputation as a player and person should account for something. As it stands, what you do, how you act never impacts your character on a realm level. As for the MMO aspect. No I do not think WoW can say its an MMO but I think they are aware of this are trying to implement changes to game to address this. The new Flex Raid system is designed to cater to realm communities. I personally feel Blizzard underestimated what each realm brought to this game, how it strengthened it and indirectly kept this game from dying out long ago. The content was the second class citizen, the community was always number one.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

    LFG isn't limited to server because of excessive queue times.
    LFG = crap idea
    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
    LFR is a good thing for people who don't have time or commitment to raid normally.
    LFR= even crap idea.... i remember when iv kill Lich King, i was in second guild that done that on my server... and thea feeling of kiling him wiht my friends... was epic....
    now i just log in, que kill Lei Shen... don ....nothing, what is purpose to kiling him on normal if i kill him, and i kill him he is dead end of game... boring LFG start to destroy wow comuniti, LFR just hit kiling blow to comuniti...
    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
    The community is still there, the player no longer cares about it that is not Blizzards fault. It's changing attitudes towards gaming.
    it is blizz fault
    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
    MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online. That is what wow is, so unless they removed that element then yes it's still an MMO.
    multiplayer... wow is now like a singleplayer in que

  14. #14
    Its like saying is it an RPG if you don't play on an RP server. Of course it is, mainly because of the rather loose and varied definitions one can give both MMO and RPG.

    End of the day, I play in the same community as I did in 2005/6. A lot of the same people in guild, as well as people on my server. Is there interaction with other servers in both pve and pvp? Yup. Does that suddenly detract from my experience of the game as an MMO? Nope. That doesn't mean it doesn't detract from other people's experience, but then neither one of us gets to decide whether this takes away WoW's MMO status, its just all a matter of opinion (and ultimately the main opinion that matters in this case is Blizzard's...its their game, they can define its genre however they want )

  15. #15
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    This is a silly question. Naturally WoW is and will always be an MMO until they remove your ability to interact with other players in a persistent world. Community is an illusion for the most part, created by arbitrary limitations and a necessity. This fairy tale and untouchable concept of community that is supported by nostalgia and rose colored glasses doesn't exist.

    As the world outside gets worse (which it is) so will the world online. It's a microcosm of our real communities and as such aren't going to be pleasant. While you may meet people with similar interests, may make meaningful relationships like meeting your future spouse, the overall nature of interaction in the game on a grand scale is not what anyone has in mind when they use the word 'community'.

    Now, idealizations aside, the same principles people base these grand concepts on are fundamentally existent. No game system makes it or doesn't make it happen. Having a dungeon finder doesn't dictate that people can't be nice. Having no dungeon finder doesn't mean people won't be dbags. Nothing is mutually exclusive.

    I think the problem you bring up has nothing to do with WoW and everything to do with the false Utopian view of community in the MMO genre as a whole.
    BAD WOLF

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire Yossarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Blizzard is working on the community thing. Flex would make PUGing easier, you can set up PUGs and meet new people if you like - potentially scout for new recruits.

    For me WoW is an MMORPG. Sadly it isn't doing that well in that regard.

    The game needs more stuff for players to "geek out" on, Locations/Items(Weapons, Armour, Trinkets ... etc)/Abilities all should have "history" (when was it created/by whom/for what/how was it created/how does it "work" ... etc).

    WoW is incredibly shallow in this regard - it could almost be considered just a themed slot machine with a "throwaway plot".
    I like you analysis, some more lore would be nice

  17. #17
    Sologame with a multiplayer option.

  18. #18
    Yes, it is. The existence of a few or even several game modes that are not only optional, but are not even the overwhelming majority of content being queueable does not make it "not an MMO," especially when the content you are queueing for places you into a group with other players to complete a common objective.

  19. #19
    Warchief Lemposs's Avatar
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    I'm sorry this is extreme over analysing.
    The social aspect/community: You once went to school, let's say it had a thousand student. Did you play, interact, talk, meet, greet etc. each and everyone of them? Probably not, you probably didn't even do this with each single person in your class. What does this indicate; that meeting one thousand people doesn't change the fact that you will only like and want to be friends with a certain number. So should sitting in front of a screen somehow change you into a socializing beast that cares for every single player you come across and have a /wave macro to use? No of course not, even in a guild with a 100 people, you only socialize with maybe half, and the other half are just to different from you. No what fucks up the community is not LFR, LFD, CRZ etc. it is YOU (the players). Do you really need Blizzard to force you into a hard situation for you to socialize with people? No, they shouldn't, you need to do your own work for this.

    Is WoW a MMO, yes. Does MMO indicate that every single person should be within 10 yards and talking and socializing with you? No. NO you find the 20 people that you like and stick with them, and once in a while you find another person that gets into the circle.
    Last edited by Lemposs; 2013-06-10 at 03:06 PM.

  20. #20
    I think MMOs stop being MMOs in the traditional sense when it starts to feel more like you're playing in parallel with other players, rather than actually playing together. The bulk of my interactions with other players started to feel that way after the various automated systems entrenched themselves into the game.

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