I hate to throw a lot of anecdotal stuff into a thread that's designed to be more numbers-centric but retrospectively you can't really discount the way that spirit/mastery interacts with fight mechanics or damage patterns.
Looking at the last two bosses of the tier from a heroic 25m perspective I dropped a lot of spirit in favor of mastery for Lei Shen because there's just so little healing to be done for the majority of the fight and even in P3 because of the heavy movement having limited spirt still allows for plenty of regen between times I can cast so having a mastery heavy build makes sense in that it can help shield melee/tanks while I'm out of range because of P3 Thunderstrucks.
For Ra-den which is a tank and spank with almost no movement, unlimited opportunity to melee the boss for SoI mana procs but a prolonged heavy damage phase of the fight I anticipated a greater need for regen than Lei Shen and regemmed to what my current armory shows plus went back to spirit flask/food when I was using int for Lei Shen. I went in to the last phase at 90%+ mana and still ended up mana starved and wished I'd stacked more spirit. Not that the fight is particularly difficult but the healing requirement is pretty high and had we been lesser geared or with one fewer healer it would have gone badly because of a lack of foresight with exactly how much regen I needed to maintain the required output.
I feel like we're back to the beginning with spirit vs. mastery being only moderately quantifiable because the numbers don't really tell the whole story. Yes, mastery sims higher than spirit but you only see the benefit if you can cast the spells that stack the shield to begin with. Once that breaks down then spirit becomes much more highly valued.
You've all summed it up pretty well in this thread. Spirit and mastery are not two stats you need to or should put into comparsion with eachother, they're different for every encounter and for every raid.
For guilds running 13/13 farm with a smooth raid group every week, mastery is usually the prefered stats because of many reasons, the biggest one being that you and the majority of the raid are probably comfortable enough to do the encounters without much hesitation and with a higher pace than you did during progress. You know when you get your mana tides and you know what point of encounters to use your cooldowns and where to be conservative/spammy. I think that the majority of holy paladins gemming full mastery now will regem and focus more on spirit when tier16 goes live.
I personally run about 12,5k spirit unbuffed with about 40-42% mastery and I have no real mana issues at this point of farm bosses. You usually want to stick to a int flask and int food because of obvious reasons, but the gems and reforge is something you change depending on how you feel; like many pointed out, there's no such thing as dps simcrafting these kinds of stats.
Once you reach about 12.5k Spirit you should start stacking mastery with reforges, enchants and gems to remain at all competitive, and simply spam AoE heals and use Eternal Flame at 3 HP.
Those words mean literally nothing out of context. Those are pretty terrible guidelines for anyone much less in the context of this thread. It looks like you're MS ret and you're clearly not doing progression on hard bosses as holy. Don't just throw stuff around because you read it on the internet.
Last edited by Lucyrotten; 2013-06-18 at 05:54 AM.
It only really presents you with the decision blizzard wants you to make. Which is; How reckless do you want to be?
Are you the type that spam heals constantly, or are you a more analytic type who can pace themselves without panicking perfectly through an encounter?
Personally, I am a mix, unless I'm comfortable with the fight the only thing I change is a spirit flask or an int flask. Int being when I'm more comfortable and the raid is taking less time and screwing up. I'll invariably need more mana on a fight where team mates are making mistakes and not perfecting their play.
I go full mastery since I'm often healing with a resto druid and a shaman. Holy priest occasionally too but no disc priest. And try to prioritize my spirit secondary. I never reforge one for the other though, if its needed it's always coming off crit and haste. Gemming, Int/Mastery or Int/Spirit. As well as Mastery Flat in yellow sockets.
Our regen is shit. It's a fact. My raid knows and lets me call the shots on Hymns and Tides unless we really are fucking up bad and other healers are desperate. But as a tier goes on and you get comfortable you should know what to do (All in Int and Mastery/Haste depending on your preferences). Spirit is a cushion for progress and bad screw ups and fights where meleeing is impossible. (Which is quite alot)
But you can use flasks if you're undecided. See which one feels better. And then take gearing down that route if you need more of it.
No debate needed since....well every raid will present you with different options. And that's cool.
Originally Posted by savutitus
Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!
Last week I tried going almost full mastery and I had to switch to using sprit flask since I oom'd to much. For this reset I'll test go for more spirit/mastery gems. Gained almost ~1,2k sprit and lost like ~2% mastery, any thoughts about it? Note that I might use int flask again.