[Megathread] Kingdom Hearts

[Sky High]

I like KH games for the charm and darker writing take on some Disney IPs.

However I can see a million reasons why people would dislike them from a gameplay standpoint. One of the things I hope is drastically improved in 3 because 1-3D all have jank as hell combat.

eh they do need to make it less of a mash X button countless times kind of combat. been playing through 2.5 and noticed half the abilites should just be combos of X and square. that and make NPC party members more useful, like a lot more useful.

[Poppincaps]

I like KH games for the charm and darker writing take on some Disney IPs.

However I can see a million reasons why people would dislike them from a gameplay standpoint. One of the things I hope is drastically improved in 3 because 1-3D all have jank as hell combat.

KH2's combat is perfect, but yeah 1 and all the side games have janky combat. Although that might be because of the systems they came out on (except KH1 of course).

[Immitis]

and all the side games have janky combat..

u wot m8?

birth by sleeps combat is just as good as twos and dream drop distance had the best combat of any game with flowmotion which thankfully will be in kh3

[Poppincaps]

u wot m8?

birth by sleeps combat is just as good as twos and dream drop distance had the best combat of any game with flowmotion which thankfully will be in kh3

BBS is really not even close. The command deck is annoying as hell and melding commands pretty much requires you to look up which abilities you want. The command styles are cool though. As for 3D I haven't play it yet, but while the flowmotion looks cool it still has the command deck which is meh.

The thing that made KH2's combat so good was the fluidity of it. Abilities like slide dash and the aerial version of it made engaging and disengaging enemies quick and I never felt like I was getting fucked over by the controls unlike KH1 and BBS.

[soulkeeperx]

u wot m8?

birth by sleeps combat is just as good as twos

I don't think so, in BBS you just fill your deck with 1 or 2 curagas and the most OP ability in the game: Thunder Surge; deals a lot of damage, hits enemies 3-4 times, gives you i-frames, and has an amazing range on it. I did this on critical for all 3 characters and the end story bosses were a breeze

[Tech614]

KH2's combat is perfect, but yeah 1 and all the side games have janky combat. Although that might be because of the systems they came out on (except KH1 of course).

KH2s combat is perfect? In what world is pressing triangle to win and still having party members that don't matter perfect combat?

It's time for a reality check to anyone that thinks KH has good combat in any iteration. It doesn't. "I play KH for the combat" said no one ever.

[Poppincaps]

KH2s combat is perfect? In what world is pressing triangle to win and still having party members that don't matter perfect combat?

It's time for a reality check to anyone that thinks KH has good combat in any iteration. It doesn't. "I play KH for the combat" said no one ever.

Do the Organization XIII battles or Lingering Will. Don't know where you got "Press triangle to win" but that's not true at all. Most, if not all, of the reaction commands are optional and are just opportunities for free hits. None of them win the game for you unless it is meant to trigger the end of the fight i.e. 1st Phase Xemnas. Plus, you usually have to meet certain requirements to even get a reaction command you can't just run around until you get one.

KH has very good combat in 2.5 Remix.

[Tech614]

Do the Organization XIII battles or Lingering Will. Don't know where you got "Press triangle to win" but that's not true at all. Most, if not all, of the reaction commands are optional and are just opportunities for free hits. None of them win the game for you unless it is meant to trigger the end of the fight i.e. 1st Phase Xemnas. Plus, you usually have to meet certain requirements to even get a reaction command you can't just run around until you get one.

KH has very good combat in 2.5 Remix.

Considering I very recently 100%ed the game on critical, no sorry the entire game is press triangle to win. The ENTIRE game. The combat is flat out terrible, and a joke to manipulate. KH1 has bad combat but at least that game is actually cheap as hell and hard on proud, KH2 on critical is a complete joke if you know how to manipulate the combat in the game, which everyone will figure out a few hours in. You might as well be playing on beginner.

[Sky High]

Considering I very recently 100%ed the game on critical, no sorry the entire game is press triangle to win. The ENTIRE game. The combat is flat out terrible, and a joke to manipulate. KH1 has bad combat but at least that game is actually cheap as hell and hard on proud, KH2 on critical is a complete joke if you know how to manipulate the combat in the game, which everyone will figure out a few hours in. You might as well be playing on beginner.

eh critical has given me a hard time for sure. but I agree the combat needs to be less simplistic in the new game.

[Poppincaps]

Considering I very recently 100%ed the game on critical, no sorry the entire game is press triangle to win. The ENTIRE game. The combat is flat out terrible, and a joke to manipulate. KH1 has bad combat but at least that game is actually cheap as hell and hard on proud, KH2 on critical is a complete joke if you know how to manipulate the combat in the game, which everyone will figure out a few hours in. You might as well be playing on beginner.

Oh what do you know? I also 100% it a month ago as well. Once again, you can't just spam triangle and kill everything. Like I said before, the Organization XIII battles you have to trigger their reaction commands with the exception of Luxord. Lingering Will doesn't even have a reaction command period. These are facts. Feel free to debunk them if you can but otherwise don't give me some bullshit that you can just press triangle the entire game to win.

So there's one complaint out of the way. Wanna give an other reasons why you think the combat in KH2 is "terrible"?

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eh critical has given me a hard time for sure. but I agree the combat needs to be less simplistic in the new game.

How is it simplistic? You have attack, block, jump, various spells, various drive forms, various limits, and plenty of abilities that change the way you use those different variables. Although simplicity can be a virtue. Look at Mario.

[Sky High]

How is it simplistic? You have attack, block, jump, various spells, various drive forms, various limits, and plenty of abilities that change the way you use those different variables. Although simplicity can be a virtue. Look at Mario.

well most if not all of the fighting can be done with pressing X a few thousands times. with a well placed triangle on certain enemies and boss fights. I have a pocket thunder spell just in case they are on the one last bit of HP and need a combo to kill them for some strange reason. sure they give you a lot of options but most of the combat can be done by hitting X. at least on the easier difficulty settings.
but simplcity in a plateform game is par for the course, this is supopsoed to be an "action RPG". look all I want is for them to make the combat a wee more like god of war or darksiders where combos are easy to pull off but leave you vuneralbe to attacks if your'e not smart. and even with that I don't hate the combat in KH, I just think it can be more engaging on the difficulty.

[OrcsRLame]

Oh what do you know? I also 100% it a month ago as well. Once again, you can't just spam triangle and kill everything. Like I said before, the Organization XIII battles you have to trigger their reaction commands with the exception of Luxord. Lingering Will doesn't even have a reaction command period. These are facts. Feel free to debunk them if you can but otherwise don't give me some bullshit that you can just press triangle the entire game to win.

So there's one complaint out of the way. Wanna give an other reasons why you think the combat in KH2 is "terrible"?

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I wouldn't bother man. You're arguing with the guy that tried to say that Skyrim's combat is objectively bad because he didn't like it. Bonus points that he said that realistic and good mean the same thing, and trying to pick apart the difference when he uses the terms incorrectly is "nit picking".

[Tech614]

How is it simplistic? You have attackYou mean you have attack?!, blockYou mean you have a button to avoid and mitigate damage?!, jumpJumps?! Jordan confirmed, various spellsAll of which behave the exact same way, various drive formsAll of which just enhance your already abilities, various limitssame as before, and plenty of abilities"plenty" lol that change the way you use those different variables. Although simplicity can be a virtue. Look at Mario.

I didn't even need to reply to your post to me because you made this.

You have to face facts. KH is a simple rpg made for kids(all ages in mind but made for kids to understand) and by product of that is a simple, janky combat system compared to most other rpgs.

KH is a hack and slash game that doesn't require precise combo or reactions. It's an rpg that requires little thought put into your stats and build. It's simple, has no depth and on top of it has fluff AI party members just along for the ride.

I love the KH series, I know why people like it. Claiming combat is a reason is looking through the super fan glasses because the combat is nothing special and can be downright terrible to people that actually do play a lot of RPGs.

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I wouldn't bother man. You're arguing with the guy that tried to say that Skyrim's combat is objectively bad because he didn't like it. Bonus points that he said that realistic and good mean the same thing, and trying to pick apart the difference when he uses the terms incorrectly is "nit picking".

What again does Skyrim have to do with KH? Cool derail bro. Do you even understand the absurdness of your comparison?

[Poppincaps]

well most if not all of the fighting can be done with pressing X a few thousands times. with a well placed triangle on certain enemies and boss fights. I have a pocket thunder spell just in case they are on the one last bit of HP and need a combo to kill them for some strange reason. sure they give you a lot of options but most of the combat can be done by hitting X. at least on the easier difficulty settings.
but simplcity in a plateform game is par for the course, this is supopsoed to be an "action RPG". look all I want is for them to make the combat a wee more like god of war or darksiders where combos are easy to pull off but leave you vuneralbe to attacks if your'e not smart. and even with that I don't hate the combat in KH, I just think it can be more engaging on the difficulty.

Have you done the Organization XIII Data Battles or Lingering Will? Because you will not get away with just mashing X all day. You'll get your ass knocked out really quickly by doing that.

I didn't even need to reply to your post to me because you made this.

You have to face facts. KH is a simple rpg made for kids(all ages in mind but made for kids to understand) and by product of that is a simple, janky combat system compared to most other rpgs.

KH is a hack and slash game that doesn't require precise combo or reactions. It's an rpg that requires little thought put into your stats and build. It's simple, has no depth and on top of it has fluff AI party members just along for the ride.

I love the KH series, I know why people like it. Claiming combat is a reason is looking through the super fan glasses because the combat is nothing special and can be downright terrible to people that actually do play a lot of RPGs.

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What again does Skyrim have to do with KH? Cool derail bro. Do you even understand the absurdness of your comparison?

First of all yes it is made with kids in mind, but it also has plenty of challenge to be found and that is where the intricacies of the combat can be found. That's like saying that WoW is sooo easy because you can one shot all the mobs on your level 20 fully heirloomed alt. Sure, the leveling is easy but Mythic difficulty can still be brutal. Same thing with KH, the story bosses are, for the most part, pretty faceroll, but the true challenge comes from the secret bosses.

"No precise combos or reactions" just proves that you haven't done any of the hard bosses in KH2. There are literally things in the game called reaction commands. Sephiroth, the Organization XIII battles, and Lingering Will all require precise reactions to their abilities.But regardless you keep calling KH simple but not once have you explained why it is terrible. Simplicity does not equal terribleness. Simple controls but complex encounters are actually a better way of doing game design in my opinion.

[Sky High]

Have you done the Organization XIII Data Battles or Lingering Will? Because you will not get away with just mashing X all day. You'll get your ass knocked out really quickly by doing that.

not that far yet. I should say to the game's credit they have challenging side bosses. from KH1 to 2.5 the side bosses were much more entertaining in thier difficulty, my fav boss fight in KH1 was Kurt Zisa. fuck Sephiroth though, hate him so much.

[Tech614]

"No precise combos or reactions" just proves that you haven't done any of the hard bosses in KH2. There are literally things in the game called reaction commands. Sephiroth, the Organization XIII battles, and Lingering Will all require precise reactions to their abilities.But regardless you keep calling KH simple but not once have you explained why it is terrible. Simplicity does not equal terribleness. Simple controls but complex encounters are actually a better way of doing game design in my opinion.

Because you magically find something more difficult then almost everyone else doesn't mean you're the only one who beat the bosses.

LMFAO at reaction commands, aka pressing triangle to win, aka QTE to win being difficult.

There is a reason KH2 is universally thought of as child's play compared to KH1, including optional bosses. Not only did they keep a simple combat system, they simply made the game easier in all regards along with dubbing down the cheapness that optional bosses should actually have to counter breaking them.

The fact you keep bringing up the XIII fights in the books just proves you yourself have a limited understanding of the game mechanics since every single one of these bosses are exploitable due to the terrible AI in the game. You can break them all with very little effort.

"Complex encounters" name one complex fight in KH series. I dare you. How someone could say that with a straight face is beyond me.

KH series fights are either 1) Easy 2) easy with the right build or 3) cheap but still easy with the right build, just little room for getting hit. Are some of the optional bosses hard in the series? Yes, but it's sure as hell not because they are "complex".

[RobertoCarlos]

so much hate in the Kingdom Hearts 3 thread. Which like the series i'd class under escapism fun. Collecting keyblades and fighting Disney bosses/worlds is all the charm. Not the combat system. Its not even online so I don't understand the ego padding I'm sorry.

[Immitis]

flowmotion best combat system in any game 10/10 best kh game ddd

[Poppincaps]

Because you magically find something more difficult then almost everyone else doesn't mean you're the only one who beat the bosses.

LMFAO at reaction commands, aka pressing triangle to win, aka QTE to win being difficult.

There is a reason KH2 is universally thought of as child's play compared to KH1, including optional bosses. Not only did they keep a simple combat system, they simply made the game easier in all regards along with dubbing down the cheapness that optional bosses should actually have to counter breaking them.

The fact you keep bringing up the XIII fights in the books just proves you yourself have a limited understanding of the game mechanics since every single one of these bosses are exploitable due to the terrible AI in the game. You can break them all with very little effort.

"Complex encounters" name one complex fight in KH series. I dare you. How someone could say that with a straight face is beyond me.

KH series fights are either 1) Easy 2) easy with the right build or 3) cheap but still easy with the right build, just little room for getting hit. Are some of the optional bosses hard in the series? Yes, but it's sure as hell not because they are "complex".

I am fully aware that speedrunners have figured out how to exploit all the Organization XIII Data Battles, but speedrunners do that with every single game in existence. The vast majority of players aren't going to know that you can chain firaga on Vexen and kill him in 20 seconds.

But here's a good example of a fight that is incredibly well balanced and complex enough to be a real challenge. Also, KH2 is far harder than KH1 because they eliminated Curaga spam. You obviously don't know what you're talking about if you think KH1 is even close to KH2 in terms of difficulty. Ultima Weapon + Curaga + Leaf Bracer and you are pretty much unbeatable with Second Chance. At least in KH2 Curaga effectively has a CD so you can't just spam it back to back.



The guy sucks but if anything it demonstrates the difficulty of the fight over someone who's mastered it. Lingering Will has so many attacks that he can throw at you and you have very little time to react to them.

But I'm done with this discussion. You have your opinion and I have my opinion and no amount of arguing is going to change how either of us feel about the combat system. Although I think you are being very hyperbolic when you say that the combat system is terrible.

[Immitis]

kh2 would be better with flowmotion