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  1. #181
    Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm a diehard Demonology player, and I'm just creative as hell. But holy shit the Demo 4pc looks like the best set bonus in the history of the game to me... 10 points if you can use your imagination as to how it would be OP.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Well there must be some trade-off for total mobility right ?
    I agree.
    But not like this, classes that can't cast while moving have instants to fill up movement. For affliction casting Fel Flame while moving might actualy be a loss over just running while doing nothing.

    Edit: And our whole line of level 90 talents is just bad now.

    We get a spell that's baseline for shamans as a talent now, how orginal.
    AV has been terrible since forever, MF as an active while it was only good on some fights.

    Atleast the set bonusses are nice, and i'm mostly demo anyway. But i like all my specs
    Last edited by Tryana; 2013-06-12 at 08:32 AM.
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  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazda View Post
    Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm a diehard Demonology player, and I'm just creative as hell. But holy shit the Demo 4pc looks like the best set bonus in the history of the game to me... 10 points if you can use your imagination as to how it would be OP.
    haha here are my first thoughts (page 3):
    that 2p looks like it will increase the demo dps on execute and even better on add fights. like crazy. well depending on the duration, but imagine if you can have a 100% uptime of that buff if you ahve fights, where you get soul fire buffs pretty often.

    and the 4p wtf. imagine you get some fury and then spam touch of chaos. you ahve a 20% chance to proc hand of guldan.
    so the global is 1sec right? you have a hand of guldan ~ every 5 sec and you can cast hand of guldan yourself to make sure the dot doesnt expire... does it only stack up 2 times or would it actually stack even more? that would be crazyyy, especially if you ahev a lucky streak, but even without, it should be pretty easy to stack 4-5 times.

    am i the only one that thinks that the buffs > the nerfs in this patch (atm) for demo (with 2p+4p)? it sounds like you can do some crazy dps if you play it right.
    and i wasnt even considering, how op that could be on aoe. you can maybe even stay in meta all the time if you manage to ahve a decent uptime and get all the fury <3
    Last edited by Shaoxy; 2013-06-12 at 08:29 AM.

  4. #184
    Epic! RaoBurning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    lol at KJC, while it was extremely great, I believe moving while casting was just wrong .... for any class.
    Adding "cast on the move" to things I don't want to be right about if they're wrong.

    That wording is incredibly awkward. But, no, I enjoy it quite a bit. Almost a deal breaker if it goes live. I'll go Hunter/Melee, maybe. Mobility is just too much fun.
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  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaoxy View Post
    haha here are my first thoughts (page 3):


    and i wasnt even considering, how op that could be on aoe.
    You are right. These are full of design flaws. They seem to throw patch notes just like that. To keep people interested and in the game and the discussion on. This is very annoying. And they do it all the time.
    Last edited by Rayaleith; 2013-06-12 at 08:29 AM. Reason: Typo
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  6. #186
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    No happy with the changes either, ridiculous to change at this stage of the expansion
    If AV is not taken then upgrade the dmg returned, if its interesting we'll take it over our aoe range and moving ability

    if KJC is too good (i doubt it is due to penalty movement), the nerf the movement part more !

    if MF aoe is too good, then reduce a tad the range

    Finally if you want to put warlock in the middle/back pack, and as usual kill one spec, then fix the havoc+shadowburn bug so we never return to destro like in cata
    Nerf agony and revert the 10 stack buff we got vs the cata way it was

    and nerf doom dmg

    .. so that we don't any regret when we reroll.

    the best warlock spec overall based on raiddps all parse is demonology, which is not concerned by kjc that much and take MF situationnally based on aoe mecanic boss fight.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    That's a separate issue, perhaps it just needs to extend and not recalculate DoTs up to a certain limit.
    That just opens the door to gaming procs in broken ways, the SS bug was bad enough - imagine extending 100% crit buffs with felflame, where's it's possible on single target.

    Personally a tad disappointed, the AV nerf, while not unexpected, is disappointing. These past 2 tiers have been incredibly movement heavy, the snare on AV has been a fair enough drawback in both pve and pvp - having to react instantly to avoid the mechanics (or in the case of fights like H-Blade Lord / Ji-kun and others, plan around it not being up at certain times - Tsulong iirc required you to essentially be moving constantly to avoid the AOE), is enough of an extra bit of brainwork and risk taking that AV felt like it was enough of a double edged sword.

    MF getting a nerf is pretty terrible.

    AV hasn't been improved in any way, so is still absolute garbage.

    So now we're left with our "final" tier of talents being a pile of refuse once again like on MV launch (arguably worse now that MF is in such a weird state, affliction AOE was already bad enough - considering elemental shamen can crank out retarded AOE damage with barely more than 1 button, this seems unfair).

    On the plus side, the pvp set looks freaking awesome, right? I'm also super happy to see the breath attack come back, although I wish it was baseline over howl, purely because I hate not having deathcoil (or make that baseline and howl + breath talents).
    Last edited by Nagassh; 2013-06-12 at 08:37 AM.

  8. #188
    The notes so far looks awesome!

    I like the fact that the lvl90 talents changed, becuase they were very good.

    KJC is more like Spiritwalkers Grace now, which is good and fair.
    Maybe maybe they can buff AV just a tiny bit, or make the active deal 40-50% damage or something.

    Still gonna go with Mannoroth's Fury alot I think, and KJC will still be good enough.

  9. #189
    KJC change is terrible because, to me it seemed the huge drive behind the warlock changes in MoP was giving us the ability to our biggest CD's and our biggest nukes when the time was right for the warlock.
    Now we are back to being heavily reliant on the boss mechanics. Honestly I wish warlock mechanics were given to all DPS, so that they choose when to do loads of damage.
    KJC was an enabler of that way of dealing damage and it made warlocks, along with the secondary resource mechanics, a lot of fun to play.

    This is a huge backward step.

    I don't even want them to change it after MoP, if anything they should roll this out to all the damage dealers.
    Giving players more control is way more fun and has much potentially higher skill caps.

  10. #190
    If you see patch notes from other classes (for instance the scandalous notes for resto druid) chances are that most of these changes are really irrelevant
    Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Tryana View Post
    I agree.
    But not like this, classes that can't cast while moving have instants to fill up movement. For affliction casting Fel Flame while moving might actualy be a loss over just running while doing nothing.

    Edit: And our whole line of level 90 talents is just bad now.

    We get a spell that's baseline for shamans as a talent now, how orginal.
    AV has been terrible since forever, MF as an active while it was only good on some fights.
    Oh well I don't really disagree there. I also don't think this much mobility can really be integrated in a balanced way but taking it away now for the last tier seems very odd.

  12. #192
    Looks like i'll be changing to demo/destro in 5.4, the KJC change will just have a too great impact on affliction. I'm a sad panda for the MF as well, it was great for destro. Although i guess it will still have a good use due to the pretty short CD.

  13. #193
    nerf hunter, shammy, mage ability to cast while moving now.

  14. #194
    To those who are agreeing about the KJC change, think about it:

    Elemental Shamans and Mages have effective roots and instants to keep a reasonable distance.

    What do we have??? We used to have a 20-sec Shadowfury, now it's 30 seconds, it is hardly a bread and butter talent for destro when the expansion hit.

    We don't have INSTANT LAVA BURSTS BACK TO BACK or an effective Deep Freeze + Frostbolt + Icelance combo. We don't have that! What we have is a 3 second casted spell that hits as much as an INSTANT Ice lance or back to back Lava Bursts.

    What made Demonology viable was the fact that it can MOVE. Most of the talents that are offered this expansion were all offered last expansion, and look how WELL that turned out.

    And as if Rogues are not overbuffed, they're buffing them more.

    This is such BS.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by warlockSTAR View Post
    nerf hunter, shammy, mage ability to cast while moving now.
    Mages and shammies were never able to do their full rotation on the move like we were, and hunters aren't casters.

  16. #196
    KJC was perfectly implemented with the movement speed reduction

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by rables View Post
    Mages and shammies were never able to do their full rotation on the move like we were, and hunters aren't casters.
    So the fix would be to let us just cast our filler while moving (SBolt/Incin/MG)

    That would be a decent fix imho. Alltho i guess my chaosbolting friends would likely disagree with me.
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  18. #198
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    That just opens the door to gaming procs in broken ways, the SS bug was bad enough - imagine extending 100% crit buffs with felflame, where's it's possible on single target.
    Up to a limit = would extend everything (including Lei Shen) but only up to (say) 3 times. Then any further Fel Flames will not extend the DoT until a hard refresh is done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Personally a tad disappointed, the AV nerf, while not unexpected, is disappointing. These past 2 tiers have been incredibly movement heavy, the snare on AV has been a fair enough drawback in both pve and pvp - having to react instantly to avoid the mechanics (or in the case of fights like H-Blade Lord / Ji-kun and others, plan around it not being up at certain times - Tsulong iirc required you to essentially be moving constantly to avoid the AOE), is enough of an extra bit of brainwork and risk taking that AV felt like it was enough of a double edged sword.
    You mean KJC not AV here but just so you know a SWG type talent is not actually a bad talent. It just looks bad because your whole toolkit ultimately in 5.1-5.3 was balanced around being able to move all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    So now we're left with our "final" tier of talents being a pile of refuse once again like on MV launch (arguably worse now that MF is in such a weird state, affliction AOE was already bad enough - considering elemental shamen can crank out retarded AOE damage with barely more than 1 button, this seems unfair).
    90 talents this entire expansion have been really hit or miss, just IMO. Either way this could have been a chance to possibly add a small amount of rebalance back to the overall toolkit (for instance, making affliction actually have a movement ability that isn't a supermassive DPS loss) but they just blew it.

  19. #199
    forget about lvl90 talents now! this makes the wl less usable and variable big time. cd on kjc and mf is just like...without any reason!

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    rebalance back to the overall toolkit .
    Good luck with that. They can't even be bothered looking at Burning Rush or Archimonde Vengeance. They're basically like the only group of people who don't think these stink. Ugh.

    All level 90 talents are useless now. This makes 5.1 KJC desirable.

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