1. #2321
    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    It got nerfed already by the removal of Glyph of Everlasting Affliction.
    Not having the glyph just makes bad RNG more punishing (which is why the glyph looks so great on simcraft and is great in practice if you're looking at a multitude of pulls collectively) but I've played a decent amount of UVLS demo without the glyph to see how my damage was on fights where i didn't get RNG fucked and even on some bad pulls it is still an insane dps increase vs just normal trinkets. The gap will be closed next tier since those new trinkets are insane but I think demo will still use UVLS + amplify, especially considering the fights where demo is best at in Siege are council fights where UVLS will be very insane.
    Last edited by Jetjaguar; 2013-07-30 at 04:30 AM.
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  2. #2322
    ok i guess i just fail at affliction. Been doing a lot of BGs on PTR after it came back up and every time I get like 2 mages, a boomkin, and 2 spriests on me I die. How do you live through that? Cant even cast cause its perma silence.

  3. #2323
    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    ok i guess i just fail at affliction. Been doing a lot of BGs on PTR after it came back up and every time I get like 2 mages, a boomkin, and 2 spriests on me I die. How do you live through that? Cant even cast cause its perma silence.
    Well no class or player is going to do well against 5 others at once

  4. #2324
    The Patient sasofrass's Avatar
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    Even with EA gone, that now gives doom and corruption back 20% more damage, and with a much higher item level for next tier that means we can potentially get a lot more haste, which would increase its chance to proc. It might not be so bad..

  5. #2325
    On live not using EA is about a 4-5K loss on ~245K theoretical (about 548ilvl) per 530-5 simC. This gap has been narrowing as my ilvl has gone up so theoretically we would hit a point where it would be a wash about where SoO normal ilvl would be. That is IF we keep UVLS. My UVLS is just a 2/2 heroic not a HTF 2/2 so perhaps with one of them and more haste EA would be a loss anyhow.

    That said the damage from corruption in both aff and demo is comically bad. Think it was doing less than haunt in terms of dmg done even after the haunt periodic only nerf. Demo you might as well just buff DF generation slightly and go without it since its damage is such crap. It just seems to be a favorite punching bag for dev nerfs and its hit such a point its now a driver of DF or shards more than a damage mechanic. As its one of the most iconic warlock spells that just feels wrong IMO.

    Right now it feels like these are our options for 5.4 in pve:
    1. UVLS/Amp demo haste/mastery setup with an aff offspec
    2. Amp/T16 trinket demo crit based with no real offspec

    Destro is just so awful its hard to even take it anywhere you want to test. Also the 520ilvl normalization is really throwing off destro's numbers since the spec is okay at 520 but has fallen significantly behind at 550'ish ilvl even before the RoF ember regen nerf. Losing 30% ember generation (just single target) plus the escalating gap as ilvl increases brings it to a point of having no place outside of leveling. Even IF destro's numbers were fixed (not its mechanics) it might be able to pair with a crit based demo setup.

    Especially for early on/normal modes almost everyone will just roll with UVLS since many of us have it already. Only die hard demo folks like Zinn (sorry bud) will probably go with the demo crit build. However IF they fixed destro in both mechanics and numbers you could at least have an offspec. Its not unreasonable to expect spec changes fight to fight but having to utterly redo stats is a bit much...hence the focus on getting at least 2x specs that can handle all the fights in SoO.

  6. #2326
    Why do they even still have GoSac? It's really close to being 100% useless in all situations now.

  7. #2327
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    On live not using EA is about a 4-5K loss on ~245K theoretical (about 548ilvl) per 530-5 simC. This gap has been narrowing as my ilvl has gone up so theoretically we would hit a point where it would be a wash about where SoO normal ilvl would be. That is IF we keep UVLS. My UVLS is just a 2/2 heroic not a HTF 2/2 so perhaps with one of them and more haste EA would be a loss anyhow.

    That said the damage from corruption in both aff and demo is comically bad. Think it was doing less than haunt in terms of dmg done even after the haunt periodic only nerf. Demo you might as well just buff DF generation slightly and go without it since its damage is such crap. It just seems to be a favorite punching bag for dev nerfs and its hit such a point its now a driver of DF or shards more than a damage mechanic. As its one of the most iconic warlock spells that just feels wrong IMO.

    Right now it feels like these are our options for 5.4 in pve:
    1. UVLS/Amp demo haste/mastery setup with an aff offspec
    2. Amp/T16 trinket demo crit based with no real offspec

    Destro is just so awful its hard to even take it anywhere you want to test. Also the 520ilvl normalization is really throwing off destro's numbers since the spec is okay at 520 but has fallen significantly behind at 550'ish ilvl even before the RoF ember regen nerf. Losing 30% ember generation (just single target) plus the escalating gap as ilvl increases brings it to a point of having no place outside of leveling. Even IF destro's numbers were fixed (not its mechanics) it might be able to pair with a crit based demo setup.

    Especially for early on/normal modes almost everyone will just roll with UVLS since many of us have it already. Only die hard demo folks like Zinn (sorry bud) will probably go with the demo crit build. However IF they fixed destro in both mechanics and numbers you could at least have an offspec. Its not unreasonable to expect spec changes fight to fight but having to utterly redo stats is a bit much...hence the focus on getting at least 2x specs that can handle all the fights in SoO.
    I like destro. Always have since bc.

    What is the dps difference using the same gear between all 3 specs?
    E.g. 540 ilvl.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drikkink View Post
    Why do they even still have GoSac? It's really close to being 100% useless in all situations now.
    I still see locks use it in pvp. If you take it with soul link you get quite a bit of health.

    I still use a pet for pvp.. Helps prevent sap caps.

  8. #2328
    Quote Originally Posted by justinmccray111 View Post
    What is the dps difference using the same gear between all 3 specs?
    E.g. 540 ilvl.
    You mean on live or ptr

    Single target it would be (for both live and ptr but ptr is ofc subject to change)

    Demo > Affi >>> Destro

    Things to note -
    Demo relies on UVLS (a lot)
    Destro is worse off on the ptr due to Rof being removed (this will apparently be compensated)
    Affi keeps getting something changed every build atm, they are trying to break its reliance on MG to do damage.
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2013-07-30 at 02:23 PM.

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  9. #2329
    Destro lost 30% of its ember generation even single target when RoF went away from the rotation. No compensation has yet been given with all the old weaknesses still prevalent. IE inferior primary stat scaling and significantly inferior secondary stat scaling (especially haste).

    Aff is getting jerked all around but is really looking iffy for pvp. PVE its looking slightly better but is still too reliant on KJC since its still addicted to near constant channeling to keep up. The double dip from MF on seed being changed should return the spec to being meh for aoe or aoe burst situations. Even with minimal crit you can keep the T16 set bonus up almost constantly even with a mastery > haste build.

    Pets don't get squat from the amp or kardris trinkets and demo is really in the doghouse for the later since kardris doesn't do anything for guardian pets (imps) either.

    PVP is just wretched with the latest changes...as they stand I'd just about give up on it for the rest of MoP.

    If we are talking pure single target probably UVLS/amp demo with the current mastery/haste itemization > amp/int+critproc demo with a crit > mast > haste setup = affliction with amp+A&O trinkets > melee'ing with a fishing pole and safari hat > destro. Okay slight fudging about destro but probably go sac with amp+kadris for destro should they ever fix its mechanics/numbers.

  10. #2330
    Over 9000! Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinmccray111 View Post
    I still see locks use it in pvp. If you take it with soul link you get quite a bit of health.

    I still use a pet for pvp.. Helps prevent sap caps.
    It also helps if your pet tends to get targetted.

  11. #2331
    Dreadlord Junblat's Avatar
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    what the hell is going on ????!?!??!

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  12. #2332
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    You mean on live or ptr

    Single target it would be (for both live and ptr but ptr is ofc subject to change)

    Demo > Affi >>> Destro

    Things to note -
    Demo relies on UVLS (a lot)
    Destro is worse off on the ptr due to Rof being removed (this will apparently be compensated)
    Affi keeps getting something changed every build atm, they are trying to break its reliance on MG to do damage.
    Where are the numbers man.

    You cant just say which is greater which showing proof.

    Demo>aff>destro doesnt mean anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    Destro lost 30% of its ember generation even single target when RoF went away from the rotation. No compensation has yet been given with all the old weaknesses still prevalent. IE inferior primary stat scaling and significantly inferior secondary stat scaling (especially haste).

    Aff is getting jerked all around but is really looking iffy for pvp. PVE its looking slightly better but is still too reliant on KJC since its still addicted to near constant channeling to keep up. The double dip from MF on seed being changed should return the spec to being meh for aoe or aoe burst situations. Even with minimal crit you can keep the T16 set bonus up almost constantly even with a mastery > haste build.

    Pets don't get squat from the amp or kardris trinkets and demo is really in the doghouse for the later since kardris doesn't do anything for guardian pets (imps) either.

    PVP is just wretched with the latest changes...as they stand I'd just about give up on it for the rest of MoP.

    If we are talking pure single target probably UVLS/amp demo with the current mastery/haste itemization > amp/int+critproc demo with a crit > mast > haste setup = affliction with amp+A&O trinkets > melee'ing with a fishing pole and safari hat > destro. Okay slight fudging about destro but probably go sac with amp+kadris for destro should they ever fix its mechanics/numbers.
    You must suck at playing destro then. (Pvp)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    It also helps if your pet tends to get targetted.
    Thats what glyphd health funnel is for. Only way your pet can die if you are not paying attention or its too far away.

  13. #2333
    Quote Originally Posted by justinmccray111 View Post
    Where are the numbers man.

    You cant just say which is greater which showing proof.

    Demo>aff>destro doesnt mean anything.


    - - - Updated - - -



    You must suck at playing destro then. (Pvp)

    - - - Updated - - -



    Thats what glyphd health funnel is for. Only way your pet can die if you are not paying attention or its too far away.
    http://simulationcraft.org/530/Warlock.html ?

  14. #2334
    @Justin

    What exactly do you want, you asked which specs are performing better, you didnt state in what enviroment, ptr or live if you want numbers quit being lazy and look through the forums, there are numbers posted for specs every day. I generalised the answer because you didnt ask a very specific question.

    Werst gave you 100% accurate information and you responded with "you must suck at playing destro then (pvp)" what the hell is that.

    Then to top all that off there was a question about the use of sacrifice and you respond off topic again about glyphed health funnel, you should consider contributing to the actual post instead of just flaming every single person who responded to you.

    And actually one more thing, believe it or not i can tell you what specs are stronger because i know my stuff, you coming here and asking for that is exactly what you got.
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2013-07-30 at 03:07 PM.

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  15. #2335
    Justin, you are clearly ignorant of the macro stats if you think destro is in good shape on live (pvp) and you are further ignorant of how mechanics and changes impact us for 5.4 if you think it will suddenly work well in the next patch. From every MMR from 1800 past 2200 destro is an inferior choice compared to mage, ele, or hunter by every empirical stat with the possible exception of RBGs. The CB nerf vs players was just a coffin nail the spec has not recovered from nor will it for 5.4 based on what we know so far.

    PVE on live its pretty simple...look at simC, look at world of logs, look at what world class locks are using. Are you so inept in research I must link those respective websites? PTR for PVE destro has taken a wide assortment of nerfs with zero compensation so far. When destro was falling off in terms of scaling even with the 30% ember generation from RoF how do you think it will do as ilvl's continue to escalate?

    So in 5.4 you think a pet can't die if you health funnel it when a) health funnel is paid for by your HP, b) you must be stationary to use HF (if not glyph'd), and clearly no team can global a pet w' as little HP as our pets have (sarcasm). You really think that channeled heal is going to offset either a dot/cleave comp or let alone a burst like ele/mage/hunter? If that's the case you seriously need to rethink what you type or learn the game's mechanics/numbers due to your statements being insulting and inaccurate.

    If you can put together some logic for why or what in terms of locks in 5.4 I'm sure we'd all be fascinated. If not please consider what exactly you are contributing here.

  16. #2336
    If people were struggling to get green fire before, the extended cooldown on the gateway is going to make it harder. That is a pretty large staple in completing tht fight without taking chaos bolts to the face.

  17. #2337
    They should just take away the green fire quest if you don't have sorry if you do good job. They have done things like this in the past and at the rate warlocks are being nerfed people wont be able to complete it anyways.

  18. #2338
    Quote Originally Posted by KageKitsune28 View Post
    If people were struggling to get green fire before, the extended cooldown on the gateway is going to make it harder. That is a pretty large staple in completing tht fight without taking chaos bolts to the face.
    You don't even need to use gateway for the green fire quest. Sac Pact absorbs all of chaos bolts damage.

  19. #2339
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Cultist View Post
    You don't even need to use gateway for the green fire quest. Sac Pact absorbs all of chaos bolts damage.
    Also twilight ward.

    Gear will make it much easier for anyone to do once the LFR wings are open, too. I don't think a gateway nerf is going to prevent people from doing the quest at this point.

  20. #2340
    Blademaster Hurtlocker's Avatar
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    The higher item level gear in 5.4 will also be able to trivialize some of the aspects of the fight. Adds will die quicker and as well as provide more room for error. Boss will die quicker too (Well, Numidia beat me to the punch).

    What's wrong with still being able to value it that some cannot do it? If they wanted everyone to have it right away, they would have made it baseline. Next X-pac will definitely make it trivial enough for everyone to get.
    Last edited by Hurtlocker; 2013-07-30 at 04:37 PM.

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