1. #2481
    Quote Originally Posted by darlissa View Post
    Yes but that's a different topic, we were debating ICD vs RPPM. I'm all up for active trinkets, even though I doubt they will add such trinkets from raids, seeing as they haven't done so for a very long time :<

    They tend to get macroed to class cooldowns tho, which is why blizz avoids to add them (or at least one of the reasons).
    This post says quite clearly they are planning to bring them back. It also says there should be completely passive trinkets, which we also don't have yet.

    Personally I would love if there is 1 of each out of RPPM, ICD, on-use and passive. The fifth could be the cleave trinket, because it's situational. It's probably too much to ask for 4 closely balanced trinkets though, considering they have to be balanced for many specs at the same time.

  2. #2482
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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  3. #2483
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    T16 two set bonus for Aff:

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=145072

  4. #2484
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    The latter will probably happen, it wouldn't surprise me at all. That's the issue with their "number pass at the end of the PTR" habit, we won't really test the changes.
    Let's pray for an overshot then, so we can at least have fun during the first week before the nerfs :P
    GC have been saying multiple times warlock dps is too high so I'm getting the bad feeling they're just going to nerf demo and aff down to destro level and leave destro in its current PTR state. How does destro compare to spriests on the ptr? (a spec they said was balanced)
    Last edited by Micke; 2013-08-04 at 01:22 AM.

  5. #2485
    Quote Originally Posted by Micke View Post
    GC have been saying multiple times warlock dps is too high so I'm getting the bad feeling they're just going to nerf demo and aff and leave destro in its current PTR state. How does destro compare to spriests? (a spec they said was balanced)
    There is no simulation available, and RPPM plus other changes are far too big to just guess around.

  6. #2486
    Without the new 4 piece and the ICD immersus trinket destructions damage is a joke on the PTR.

    Here are some issues that arent quite so simple to address

    Pets dont benefit from Mastery / Kadris totem / Crit bonus from bindings.

    Haste scaling officially crapped on with the RPPM change and Rof gone from single target.

    Extremely limited skillset on single target.

    We dont actually use any 4 part and the 2 part is extremely lackluster so if we get balanced around the new 4 part well then we gna suck for a long time (grantd the 4 part from t15 could find minor use once 5.4 lands)

    I do not see how they could get away with not scaling up destruction without rain of fire, my 550 item level warlock sims about 200k dps without it (which is even further nerfed due to RPPM scaling)
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  7. #2487
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    obviously destro is a joke on PTR.... blizzard still need to supply the "fix" for removing RoF as single target ember generation.
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  8. #2488
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    They are going to compensate it in a later build I'm pretty sure.

  9. #2489
    It could that they're doing such extensive testing and it's actually taking a long time. I don't say that facetiously either.

  10. #2490
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    So someone explain this to me. Here are the new PPM charts.

    Unerring Vision of Lei Shen 0.53 Haste+Budget 0.58 Budget.

    The first number is the old PPM and the second number is the new PPM. Isn't the second number an increase in PPM?

  11. #2491
    Haste scaling would have brung it over that 0.5 (not sure by how much though), but the removal of the Everlasting affliction glyph and the ability to "bank" time since last proc hurts that playstyle in an extreme way, if you think like this (im sure this is not exact and someone can explain it better)

    1.0 PPM would be as it says 1 proc per minute and as you are out of combat for 90 seconds gives the trinket a good chance to proc on the opener.

    0.5 PPM would be 1 proc per 2 minutes and as you are out of combat for 90 secons gives the trinket a good chance to proc coming nearer to 30 seconds.

    You can find the values in between if you imagine that 0.1 PPM difference is 6 seconds.

    You must remember to that Lore told us that the trinkets arent very likely to proc until they are actually at 100%.

    Those numbers above only work for the opener.

    Ofc the uptime you will see during combat are a LOT lower due to not having your time before combat "banked"

    This is my take on the PPM update, it could be wrong so please dont jump on me for that =)
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2013-08-04 at 02:58 AM.
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  12. #2492
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    obviously destro is a joke on PTR.... blizzard still need to supply the "fix" for removing RoF as single target ember generation.
    A joke compared to what though? Are shadow priests a joke? Maybe they are bringing classes down rather than up for their balancing act?
    Last edited by Micke; 2013-08-04 at 03:25 AM.

  13. #2493
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    So someone explain this to me. Here are the new PPM charts.

    Unerring Vision of Lei Shen 0.53 Haste+Budget 0.58 Budget.

    The first number is the old PPM and the second number is the new PPM. Isn't the second number an increase in PPM?
    when it says: Unerring Vision of Lei Shen 0.53 Haste+Budget 0.58 Budget. , it tells you how you modify the base rpppm. when it says haste+budget, it means that the trinket scales from both haste and budgets where budget means item upgrading etc. so if you have the normal thunderforged UVLS with 37,5% haste and fully upgraded, it will bring your rppm for that trinket to 0,78 on live, with the new modifications, the UVLS will only scale from budget increase aka item upgrade, so on the ptr it will only be at 0,62 rppm.

    i always fear when blizz says that we do too much dmg, coz it always mean that we will get overnerfed the first week atleast, and then minor buffs the 2nd week, it has always been the way blizz to do nerfs, hopefully it will take a while to get the balancing in order and it wont be too bad, but in any case, if locks and mages do too much dmg then there are other classes that needs a nerf as well, i just hope that it wont be too much and that we'll still be worth our spot.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2013-08-04 at 03:26 AM.

  14. #2494
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    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    Haste scaling would have brung it over that 0.5 (not sure by how much though), but the removal of the Everlasting affliction glyph and the ability to "bank" time since last proc hurts that playstyle in an extreme way, if you think like this (im sure this is not exact and someone can explain it better)

    1.0 PPM would be as it says 1 proc per minute and as you are out of combat for 90 seconds gives the trinket a good chance to proc on the opener.

    0.5 PPM would be 1 proc per 2 minutes and as you are out of combat for 90 secons gives the trinket a good chance to proc coming nearer to 30 seconds.

    You can find the values in between if you imagine that 0.1 PPM difference is 6 seconds.

    You must remember to that Lore told us that the trinkets arent very likely to proc until they are actually at 100%.

    Those numbers above only work for the opener.

    Ofc the uptime you will see during combat are a LOT lower due to not having your time before combat "banked"

    This is my take on the PPM update, it could be wrong so please dont jump on me for that =)
    So if it was 0.55 and now it's 0.58 isn't that a buff?

  15. #2495
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    So if it was 0.55 and now it's 0.58 isn't that a buff?
    They said they would compensate for the lack of haste scaling. I'm not sure how high the RPPM went when you factor in all your haste buffs ... raid haste, bloodlust, legendary meta gem, (afflic) Dark Soul, possibly valor trinket proc ... I imagine it's actually a net nerf.
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  16. #2496
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    They said they would compensate for the lack of haste scaling. I'm not sure how high the RPPM went when you factor in all your haste buffs ... raid haste, bloodlust, legendary meta gem, (afflic) Dark Soul, possibly valor trinket proc ... I imagine it's actually a net nerf.
    yeah, and so far i havent seen any compensation, hopefully we'll see that in a future build, so far its a rather massive reduction in the rppm trinket's procrate around 25-30% for me atleast.

  17. #2497
    No, because now in reality it's higher than that due to haste scaling. Which is gone on ptr.

    Edit: Ops loaded page and 3 more comments appeared.

  18. #2498
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    So if it was 0.55 and now it's 0.58 isn't that a buff?
    This is just a guess as i havent got any hardcore evidence to back this up, but i would assume after bloodlust / haste / raid haste / Dark soul (affi) its a pretty hardcore nerf i would imagine it being down from 0.75 to about 0.58 on heroic TF.

    You will especially feel this if you were running the 13.5k haste cap (dont have exact value due to not playing demo)
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  19. #2499
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    yeah, and so far i havent seen any compensation, hopefully we'll see that in a future build, so far its a rather massive reduction in the rppm trinket's procrate around 25-30% for me atleast.
    I wouldn't count on anything more than the slight increase to the base proc rate
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  20. #2500
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    obviously destro is a joke on PTR.... blizzard still need to supply the "fix" for removing RoF as single target ember generation.
    The problem is that it isn't that obvious depending of the fights. In single target it is indeed pathetic, but on fights like Galakras I'm still raping everyone with SB/FnB.
    The question is : what will they balance us around ?
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