I really do think KJC needs to be changed in some way; it's just much too strong. That said, this is most definitely not the time to be changing a class so drastically, this should be reviewed in the next expansion and not halfway through a raid tier. It's absurd.
From a destruction perspective, making incinerate a movable cast sounds like a good solution. Affliction could have Malefic grasp and Demo Shadowbolt (I haven't played either spec so this could be completely wrong, just throwing ideas out there).
I really hope Blizzard delays this, I had enough of re-learning my class each patch with my Mage where I had to switch spec every patch. I don't want to be forced to alter my playstyle for my Warlock so late in an expansion.
Deals 762 to 841 (+ 75% of SpellPower) Shadowflame damage to an enemy and causes all of your periodic Affliction damage effects to instantly deal 50% of their normal periodic damage.
Since Fel Flame is slower than MG, you would get less DoT damage, about a 33% penalty. The extra ticks of course can also proc Nightfall.
Anyway my other point was that an SWG talent is not a bad talent to have alone, if your class doesn't absolutely need KJC to be competitive. So this was sort of comparing to shadow priests and mages (who both have a bit more instants), where you would have a usable movement filler as well as an optimal filler. I don't know what to think about MF, but AV of course is just garbage. Maybe next expansion they can put out good talents instead.
If MG was a moveable cast, there'd be no point in ever getting KJC.
Affliction has it's two instant dots and fel flame, all of which can be a dps LOSS if you're running high procs, we need SOMETHING to be able to cast.
They should have let KJC remain a passive, but only affect MG, DS, incinerate and shadow bolt, the snare is enough of a drawback.
Having only one filler option doesn't work when it can be a dps loss to use it if you need to move at the wrong time, at least not unless you want your playerbase left with a button that you can totally press, but it's a bad choice to make - the right choice is to press nothing, which is obviously completely counter intuitive and icky feeling for a raider.
Fel flame should either be reworked, a second filler should be added, or blizzard should work KJC out in a way that it's not as broken as they seem to feel it is, but they're evidently having trouble.
The above "filler only" option seems fairly suitable, affliction reaps some nice benefits, still needs to stop for UA / Haunt (which is a fair bit of damage). Destro gets a minor benefit, which is fitting since they have a fair bit of instants to play with - I run without AV on Horridon which can require a fair bit of movement, there's always ROFs, conflags or fel flames to be using without gimping yourself. Demo gets very little benefit by making it SB only, not giving it to soul fire, but they're already very mobile thanks to meta, so they don't need it.
Last edited by Nagassh; 2013-06-12 at 10:51 PM.
Okay as others have saied... Wth am I ging to cast on high mouvement fights as destruction? Like in durumu's maze for example.. I think all classes should just be able to cast while moving, it's one of the reasons I returned to WoW. Not being able to do so unless you stand still is just a flaw in design, think of Lei-Shen for example, you would spent almost more time running than casting especially in P3..
This is bad, it better not go through :/
Edit: sorry for retarded spelling, auto-correction is on on my ipad
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1) Most casters (except elemental shamans) will lose DPS during Durumu mazes.
2) You still have KJC cooldown which will cover at least half of the maze and will be up for every maze (and light spectrum at that).
For Destruction though, you're very wrong. Destruction has nothing else par Conflagrate to cast while moving, and the majority of fights in this expansion have been heavy-movement. It will be a heavy kick to the teeth.
So it is acceptable for Hunters and Elemental Shaman; but, not for Warlocks?
Hell the suggestion to only allow filler spells to work with KJC would be better than this. However, seeing how Elemental can cast its filler without a talent/glyph makes it appear to be a junk deal.
People are coming up with 15 different things to comp locks for the proposed KJC nerf. Do you really think that Blizz will make such a sweeping class overhaul? Or is it more likely that we're just going to get the nerf and call it a day?
I understand if some less mobile classes harbor a grudge (Spriests I'm looking at you). But the solution isn't to nerf KJC to the point of ruin. Turret casting is outdated. The game has changed. Encounters have changed. Its how things are done now. It's way more fun to be mobile. Encounters are way more fun now.
In conversation with a few friends who don't want KJC to stick around, I was accused of a lack of skill when it comes to stutter stepping to cast.
It turns out that these locks didn't want to use it because they die when they use it. They are unable to coordinate the snare mechanic. They didn't want to be "forced" into taking it by prevailing wisdom.
Two were keyboard turners and clickers so they were not exactly getting the best use out of it anyway. Clearly, casting while running (and dealing with the snare) requires skill, the same way that planning out an encounter and when to stutter step requires skill.
One of the locks in said conversation was not even currently subscribed. Just nostalgic for the way things used to be.
The other two played locks as alts and were Spriests with an axe to grind.
Turret casting is dead. Let's get with the times. Give all casters the version of KJC we have now.
Using KJC on Horridon is a huge DPS loss, but unless your guild struggle to kill him, you can go with pretty much anything.
On topic though, I couldn't care less for the KJC nerf, but the MF nerf really hurts.
We had two talents, that were taken quite often - KJC and MF - and one that wasn't that used. What I expected was for them to try and improve AV and instead, they nerfed those two talents quite hard.
To be honest, I don't really care for our 90 lvl talents anymore and I'm also increasingly envious about druids', paladins' and shamans' talents. Some of them are very original and creative and it must be a treat to be able to choose from those. I must admit I don't really have the same feeling about our talents.
The most interesting tier for us in my opinion is probably 45 lvl tier. All very useful and to some extent unique abilities.
Lvl 75 looks interesting on paper but in reality there's really not much of a choice. GoSac is viable only because of a trinket abuse for demo, pure single target for affli and SB/Havoc abusive fights for destro. GoSup and GoServ are roughly equal but to be honest, who wouldn't take GoSup, when you can get one prettier/cooler looking/more insteresting pet instead of a second dude for 20 secs you've been stuck with for 8 years (yeah I know, it's mainly aesthetics). But GoServ also comes with the cost of more micromanagement of your CDs and the DPS difference (in other words the reward) resulting by doing that is marginal at best.
I really wish I could look at more of our talent tiers and say..."Well this is a interesting talent, I look forward to trying it out"... like I do when I look on talents of classes I mentioned earlier.
I say (and I know it's not going to happen) - just scrap the current lvl 90 talents and give us some interesting to choose from:
Hintity hint hint hint Atrocity, Cataclysm
Last edited by Rivio; 2013-06-12 at 11:38 PM.
Bring me back to my point of Bias, people behind the lock is showing favoritism to all the other classes(mages), and screwing locks over(showing bias)
---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 07:58 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 08:08 PM ----------
Only true Fillers are MG/DS(aff), Incinerate(destro), and Shadow Bolt(Demo) those are filler spells, spell that are used only used if you have nothing else to do, so you just don't stand there. Like when you CD locked, you could just stand, or use some spell to do some more damage, every class has a filler spell/attack - far I know they do, so we locks seems to be the only class where are filler spells are crippled if we can't move.
I would like to give a reminder that if you are dissatisfied with this nerf to make sure you vocally take it to the PTR forum. As much as I hate to say it QQ does work and there is a higher probability of a reversal or compromise if the opposition to these changes is immediate, wide and constant. The "wait and see it's only PTR" sentiment actually decreases the possibility of shifting Blizzard's position as it's easier for them to push past if criticism doesn't really kick up until late in the patch development cycle, we've seen it before. And if you think that Blizzard will adequately compensate our current model, which has been balanced around our ability to move and cast, for the loss of KJC that's really not going to happen, and we've definitely seen that before.
When Dalaran is ashes, mage, you have my permission to die.
This change makes me rage and ill not stop raging until its changed or scrapped, i guess ill be raging for a long time to come.