1. #3241
    If you don't like it go Affliction for the fights where you want big single target. Destro is viable for at least four fights this tier. That is the beauty of being able to have two specs.
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  2. #3242
    Suggestion: Increase (Immo)/Inci/Conflag damage to fix poor single target performance and reduce F'n'B modifier to limit AoE capacities!

  3. #3243
    Quote Originally Posted by Cocoabutterz View Post
    Do we really need logs to show how bad destruction is doing on fights that aren't like spoils or horridon?
    Well, the way i see it, locks right now have 2 options:

    A) Provide Blizzard with PTR logs where it shows just how bad our ST damage scaling is(and maybe get their attention to other issues) and maybe get some buffs/fixes

    B) Do nothing, everything remains as it is now, keep complaining on MMOC about it

    I don't know but i think option A) might be the way to go :s

  4. #3244
    Quote Originally Posted by cabana View Post
    If you don't like it go Affliction for the fights where you want big single target. Destro is viable for at least four fights this tier. That is the beauty of being able to have two specs.
    For destro to get the best bang for its buck with the meta and for AoE you should be going more mastery heavy. To get the most bang for your buck with aff on single target you should be focusing heavily on haste. So your suggestion is that every fight when you have to swap specs you also need to pull out a stash of gems and either get a reforge mount yourself or ask someone to pull out theirs, because you have to reforge your stats? Cuz that is what you're saying right there, and to be frank it isn't the kindest or brightest of suggestions.

    On a 5+ target fight destro's aoe works roughly similar to what it does on live. Under 5 targets destro works nothing like it does on live. That's an issue. I honestly would rather use RoF on single target for a minor gain than to have to deal with the can of worms that the RoF emberbit nerf opened up. Blizz was honestly ready to ship this patch next week, I'd say it's better to try and get them to revert back to a known quantity than to try and get them to jump over to an unknown quantity. Even if they liked something suggested, it probably wouldn't even make it live until 5.5 at this point, and by that time what's the point really?
    What are you willing to sacrifice?

  5. #3245
    Quote Originally Posted by cabana View Post
    If you don't like it go Affliction for the fights where you want big single target. Destro is viable for at least four fights this tier. That is the beauty of being able to have two specs.
    This x100. There are definitely fights where Destro has it's moments but if you don't want to play it you can certainly do just fine with Aff on those same fights but IMO Destro will always be the niche spec for progression and more or less forgotten about in farm.

  6. #3246
    im happy with destruction atm. for singletarget and multidottng fights i gonna play affliction, for add cleave with fast dying adds i gonna roll destruction. but its little bad that MF dont increase range for FnB any longer.

  7. #3247
    So you guys think its ok for destruction to scale like dog crap and be so massively behind on single target just because its aoe is strong?

    Is it not better to spend 5 minutes reducing the mastery scaling on fire and brimstone (potentially the ember cost by 50% to) and then buffing single target damage accordingly.
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  8. #3248
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    So you guys think its ok for destruction to scale like dog crap and be so massively behind on single target just because its aoe is strong?

    Is it not better to spend 5 minutes reducing the mastery scaling on fire and brimstone (potentially the ember cost by 50% to) and then buffing single target damage accordingly.
    I don't think it's ok. I think anybody should be able to play whatever they want, with reasonable results. That spec A is 5% better than spec B is fine. That destruction ends up so far behind is unfortunate, but it's perfectly normal that classes have superior specs. This, infact, is true for every single class, particularly pure dpsers. Look at hunters, mages and rogues, they usually have a single superior spec that they all play, on every fight. Atleast we get to have the ability to swap around and do reasonably well, with each spec having strong niches that sometimes even favor swapping.

  9. #3249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filth the Warlock View Post
    I don't think it's ok. I think anybody should be able to play whatever they want, with reasonable results. That spec A is 5% better than spec B is fine. That destruction ends up so far behind is unfortunate, but it's perfectly normal that classes have superior specs. This, infact, is true for every single class, particularly pure dpsers. Look at hunters, mages and rogues, they usually have a single superior spec that they all play, on every fight. Atleast we get to have the ability to swap around and do reasonably well, with each spec having strong niches that sometimes even favor swapping.
    it's disappointing, though, as 5.3 destro is viable and 5.4 destro is not because of one change.
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  10. #3250
    Quote Originally Posted by Filth the Warlock View Post
    I don't think it's ok. I think anybody should be able to play whatever they want, with reasonable results. That spec A is 5% better than spec B is fine. That destruction ends up so far behind is unfortunate, but it's perfectly normal that classes have superior specs. This, infact, is true for every single class, particularly pure dpsers. Look at hunters, mages and rogues, they usually have a single superior spec that they all play, on every fight. Atleast we get to have the ability to swap around and do reasonably well, with each spec having strong niches that sometimes even favor swapping.
    I couldn't agree more. Filth grabbing that MVP again.

    What do you guys seriously want to see buffed which won't make Destro AoE ridiculous? Or PvP, for that matter. FnB and CB makes balancing single target PvE very hard.

  11. #3251
    Scaling buffed for incin and conflag

    Dot removed from Chaos bolt

    Fire and brimstone cost and scaling cut in half

    Rain of fire to have a bouncing explosion effect making it strong on multi target and weak on single - Ember regen removed completely

    Backdraft changed to Crit chance on incinerate
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  12. #3252
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post

    Rain of fire to have a bouncing explosion effect making it strong on multi target and weak on single - Ember regen removed completely
    If history is any lesson this will be the only part we get.

  13. #3253
    why can't immolate just be a sick DoT? my gimp geared Mage's Living Bomb hits harder than my Mastery stacked 541 Destro Warlock's immolate.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  14. #3254
    You can get the single target and aoe in balance after adjusting single target....blizz just needs to put forth a little bitty bit of effort or thought. Give immo/incinerate/conflag/FF(dest only) arc mage levels of spell coef. Turn down the base spread on F&B by a similar amount. This is no harder than the concept of reforging yet seems to escape the devs at present. As has been pointed out there is almost no time to get valid testing of a destro change should one even happen.

    Destro needs some mechanics changes to help it cope with the 550+ilvls, legendary meta gem, and AoE sustainability. All of which have been covered in the forums both here and on the official site. The pvp card doesn't play either since there is already a 25% nerf to chaosbolt damage vs players and its crystal clear they will keep nerfing CB in pvp at the slightest hint of viability. Regardless of what representation or math looks like compared to other bursty ranged.

    I also am not sold on the idea of logs changing anything. Remember MoP beta and how much was said? Then remember the community pointing out the same things that were said in beta about destro as issues months later when there was an abundance of data? Nothing changed. Devs seem to have a vision for destro which is a extremely poor man's mage that has some niche use but never really gets a seat at the adult's table. It is tuned to be a second class citizen in pvp and pve....some amazing players can make it work and most solid players can use it in the niche settings, but its not permitted to be a truly competitive spec.

  15. #3255
    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    why can't immolate just be a sick DoT? my gimp geared Mage's Living Bomb hits harder than my Mastery stacked 541 Destro Warlock's immolate.
    Because people spent too much time QQing about Immolate being a core part of Destruction and that "dispels counter us so hard". So, Blizzard made Immolate almost useless in PvP to satisfy all the wannabes that thought it would be the fix to Destro PvP. Funny thing is that dispelling Immolate was far from being the biggest problem, especially in 3s.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    You may be on to something here... GC claimed Ret Paladins killed his parents. Could it be that Warlocks drained Celas' dog soul?

  16. #3256
    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    You misunderstand. Most trinkets are able to proc immediately after the previous proc, except the ones like Wushoolay and BBoY, because it would mess with their stacking system. For that reason, those trinkets have 0 chance to proc when their proc is already up.
    Every(?) trinket that had its duration halved and RPPM rate ~doubled now has an ICD that covers its buff duration (isn't shown in the tooltip, but it's dataminable).

  17. #3257
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    Scaling buffed for incin and conflag

    Dot removed from Chaos bolt

    Fire and brimstone cost and scaling cut in half

    Rain of fire to have a bouncing explosion effect making it strong on multi target and weak on single - Ember regen removed completely

    Backdraft changed to Crit chance on incinerate
    scaling buff for incinerate and conflag would be nice, or maybe just have conflag's cd reduced by haste and then have backdraft's increase the ember generation of incinerate by doubling it, that way with haste you increase backdrafts potential uptime AND increase your ember generation further and then noticably buff chaos bolt and shadow burn and ofc add a glyph that would change backdraft from haste to crit, this would buff destro's single target dps and cleaves without buffing its aoe which i dont think is needed at all.

    i think blizz' biggest problem is that they want to buff destro's single target dps, but buffing destro's fillers like incinerate and to a degree conflag will also buff its aoe which isnt needed, so their only real option, if that is their intention, is to buff ember generation and ember spenders as they arent regularly used except for single target dps and cleaving.

  18. #3258
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    What do you guys seriously want to see buffed which won't make Destro AoE ridiculous? Or PvP, for that matter. FnB and CB makes balancing single target PvE very hard.
    i think blizz' biggest problem is that they want to buff destro's single target dps, but buffing destro's fillers like incinerate and to a degree conflag will also buff its aoe which isnt needed, so their only real option, if that is their intention, is to buff ember generation and ember spenders as they arent regularly used except for single target dps and cleaving.
    As others said it is very easy to increase the scaling of our single target spells without increasing our AoE power, they just have to reduce the FnB modifier. There is no issue there.
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  19. #3259
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    As others said it is very easy to increase the scaling of our single target spells without increasing our AoE power, they just have to reduce the FnB modifier. There is no issue there.
    that is true, as you said, all they need to do is reduce the gain from mastery when it comes to FnB and then buff the other spells accordingly, its a very simple way of doing things but my point was that there are plenty of ways to give destro a buff, without having to resort to "nerfing" FnB like this. Either way, an ember generation buff is needed assuming they dont reduce the cost of FnB.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2013-08-24 at 04:20 PM.

  20. #3260
    Of course it's easy to adjust scaling of spells. But is it easy to do so and keep everything some what balanced 2 weeks before the patch? Hmmmmmm. If destruction is tuned so it's as good as affliction (or better) single target, how many people would go destruction only for all SoO? That seems like the opposite of what blizzard intends.

    "So you guys think its ok for destruction to scale like dog crap and be so massively behind on single target just because its aoe is strong?" In the dev's minds, probably yes. Yes green fire is awesome and it was fun to abuse destruction for a few fights in ToT, but now it's a new tier and we have multiple specs.... if you don't like playing different specs, maybe it's time to reroll.

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