1. #3241
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    why can't immolate just be a sick DoT? my gimp geared Mage's Living Bomb hits harder than my Mastery stacked 541 Destro Warlock's immolate.

  2. #3242
    You can get the single target and aoe in balance after adjusting single target....blizz just needs to put forth a little bitty bit of effort or thought. Give immo/incinerate/conflag/FF(dest only) arc mage levels of spell coef. Turn down the base spread on F&B by a similar amount. This is no harder than the concept of reforging yet seems to escape the devs at present. As has been pointed out there is almost no time to get valid testing of a destro change should one even happen.

    Destro needs some mechanics changes to help it cope with the 550+ilvls, legendary meta gem, and AoE sustainability. All of which have been covered in the forums both here and on the official site. The pvp card doesn't play either since there is already a 25% nerf to chaosbolt damage vs players and its crystal clear they will keep nerfing CB in pvp at the slightest hint of viability. Regardless of what representation or math looks like compared to other bursty ranged.

    I also am not sold on the idea of logs changing anything. Remember MoP beta and how much was said? Then remember the community pointing out the same things that were said in beta about destro as issues months later when there was an abundance of data? Nothing changed. Devs seem to have a vision for destro which is a extremely poor man's mage that has some niche use but never really gets a seat at the adult's table. It is tuned to be a second class citizen in pvp and pve....some amazing players can make it work and most solid players can use it in the niche settings, but its not permitted to be a truly competitive spec.

  3. #3243
    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    why can't immolate just be a sick DoT? my gimp geared Mage's Living Bomb hits harder than my Mastery stacked 541 Destro Warlock's immolate.
    Because people spent too much time QQing about Immolate being a core part of Destruction and that "dispels counter us so hard". So, Blizzard made Immolate almost useless in PvP to satisfy all the wannabes that thought it would be the fix to Destro PvP. Funny thing is that dispelling Immolate was far from being the biggest problem, especially in 3s.

  4. #3244
    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    You misunderstand. Most trinkets are able to proc immediately after the previous proc, except the ones like Wushoolay and BBoY, because it would mess with their stacking system. For that reason, those trinkets have 0 chance to proc when their proc is already up.
    Every(?) trinket that had its duration halved and RPPM rate ~doubled now has an ICD that covers its buff duration (isn't shown in the tooltip, but it's dataminable).

  5. #3245
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    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    Scaling buffed for incin and conflag

    Dot removed from Chaos bolt

    Fire and brimstone cost and scaling cut in half

    Rain of fire to have a bouncing explosion effect making it strong on multi target and weak on single - Ember regen removed completely

    Backdraft changed to Crit chance on incinerate
    scaling buff for incinerate and conflag would be nice, or maybe just have conflag's cd reduced by haste and then have backdraft's increase the ember generation of incinerate by doubling it, that way with haste you increase backdrafts potential uptime AND increase your ember generation further and then noticably buff chaos bolt and shadow burn and ofc add a glyph that would change backdraft from haste to crit, this would buff destro's single target dps and cleaves without buffing its aoe which i dont think is needed at all.

    i think blizz' biggest problem is that they want to buff destro's single target dps, but buffing destro's fillers like incinerate and to a degree conflag will also buff its aoe which isnt needed, so their only real option, if that is their intention, is to buff ember generation and ember spenders as they arent regularly used except for single target dps and cleaving.

  6. #3246
    Deleted
    What do you guys seriously want to see buffed which won't make Destro AoE ridiculous? Or PvP, for that matter. FnB and CB makes balancing single target PvE very hard.
    i think blizz' biggest problem is that they want to buff destro's single target dps, but buffing destro's fillers like incinerate and to a degree conflag will also buff its aoe which isnt needed, so their only real option, if that is their intention, is to buff ember generation and ember spenders as they arent regularly used except for single target dps and cleaving.
    As others said it is very easy to increase the scaling of our single target spells without increasing our AoE power, they just have to reduce the FnB modifier. There is no issue there.

  7. #3247
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    As others said it is very easy to increase the scaling of our single target spells without increasing our AoE power, they just have to reduce the FnB modifier. There is no issue there.
    that is true, as you said, all they need to do is reduce the gain from mastery when it comes to FnB and then buff the other spells accordingly, its a very simple way of doing things but my point was that there are plenty of ways to give destro a buff, without having to resort to "nerfing" FnB like this. Either way, an ember generation buff is needed assuming they dont reduce the cost of FnB.
    Last edited by mmoca748dddcc2; 2013-08-24 at 04:20 PM.

  8. #3248
    Of course it's easy to adjust scaling of spells. But is it easy to do so and keep everything some what balanced 2 weeks before the patch? Hmmmmmm. If destruction is tuned so it's as good as affliction (or better) single target, how many people would go destruction only for all SoO? That seems like the opposite of what blizzard intends.

    "So you guys think its ok for destruction to scale like dog crap and be so massively behind on single target just because its aoe is strong?" In the dev's minds, probably yes. Yes green fire is awesome and it was fun to abuse destruction for a few fights in ToT, but now it's a new tier and we have multiple specs.... if you don't like playing different specs, maybe it's time to reroll.

  9. #3249
    Deleted
    Except we have still not got the compensation for Rain of fire and a lot of destructions Aoe prowess was because we were using mannoroth's fury (which is now completely killed for the spec).

    The buff we are asking for isint even a damage buff on t15 damage, its to get us out of the shit hole the spec is in with rain of fire now gone from the single target rotation,

    By reducing the ember regen we also now have super clunky Aoe so that isint something you can use to say that destro's single target should be incredibly weak (and i mean it is absoloutely dire)

  10. #3250
    Because chain lightning is strong should ele have single target below enhance's fire ele? Since destro could cheese AoE in 5.3 should it do single target that is a tier behind other specs? If shadowburn > havoc sniping is so problematic then take the spell off havoc and fix the damn spec already. Destro's AoE presently isn't sustainable vs common size aoe packs. Did we "fix" single target enough yet? The aoe is broken, single target is a joke, and the only time the spec works is spamming its execute....that REALLY sound like a product well done? Oh and it has a pvp prejudice more in keeping with civil rights violations than anything resembling logic or math.

    The "well when you can snipe shadowburns excessively" is the same as saying dps warriors are fine if they can find a fight where they can spam execute but on any fight with normal mechanics they completely faceplant. Maybe destro needs some nerfs. Plus the ostrich "head in the sand" mentality of the devs will not budge. We show them terrible parses and they say "well people play what's dominant so you don't see good destro locks" blah blah even when its world class/top 20 level players.

    Just what IS the burden of proof for destro hitting like a 102lb flirting cheerleader?

  11. #3251
    Scarab Lord Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    Because people spent too much time QQing about Immolate being a core part of Destruction and that "dispels counter us so hard". So, Blizzard made Immolate almost useless in PvP to satisfy all the wannabes that thought it would be the fix to Destro PvP. Funny thing is that dispelling Immolate was far from being the biggest problem, especially in 3s.
    Although the real problem was not immolate but conflagrate requiring immolate to be active on your target. With the current version of conflagrate and the glyph and the changes to dispels being on a 8 second cooldown, it shouldn't be much of a deal to buff up both the instant damage and the dot of it.

    Honestly, I'm not sure if destro really needs compensating, or at least not a big one seeing it is doing fine on most fights in SoO from what I've seen so far.

  12. #3252
    If you do heroics, I see no reason to gush about Destro on Garrosh. The single target is so bad and the first phase is so meaningless that affliction is much better off in the latter phases simply because it's single target DPS is so superior which WILL be important on Heroic Mode.

  13. #3253
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Honestly, I'm not sure if destro really needs compensating, or at least not a big one seeing it is doing fine on most fights in SoO from what I've seen so far.
    I played with numerous locks during the 25m testing and Destro was lagging behind compared to Demo. And way behind compared to Affliction. Of course, you have your few niche fights, but it really needs some help to be viable in heroic imo.

  14. #3254
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjaguar View Post
    If you do heroics, I see no reason to gush about Destro on Garrosh. The single target is so bad and the first phase is so meaningless that affliction is much better off in the latter phases simply because it's single target DPS is so superior which WILL be important on Heroic Mode.
    This and not to mention if you want to kill weapons without wrecking any of your normal DPS you'll need your swapped dots to take care of them. As fun as Destro will be for padding with SBurn it won't be that effective.

  15. #3255
    The only fight I see destro out performing Aff is in Spoils and maybe Galakras due to the quick paced trash/cleave fest that those fights are with a lot of shadowburn snipings. Of course SS dots onto everything will probably be comparable and a lot better single target DPS as well. MF+SoC spam is also great for the big waves in Galakras and on top of the towers where there are 8+ mobs.

  16. #3256
    Stood in the Fire Kagecamia's Avatar
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    So i did some sleuthing on raid testing for the next tier, and I saw the damage arcane can pump out in SoO.

    It makes demo in TOT with UVLS look balanced.....

  17. #3257
    Stood in the Fire sasofrass's Avatar
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    arcane can always do high damage of it can stand still long enough.

  18. #3258
    It's late and I've been helping my brother move all day, but somehow we should get them to apply the "your most recently applied corruption" technology to buff immolate for single target.

    Most recently applied immolate does something something. Keeping it single target, and thus putting immolate back on the table for single-target compensation for the RoF ember generation nerf.

    I'd like a proc -- maybe a free SBurn usable at any health ... ? I dunno. Maybe have it proc a buff to your next CB or SBurn ?

    And I definitely think Backdraft should be changed to crit chance rather than haste buff. But, dammit, I can't think of very many things to do with Destro at all that doesn't buff its aoe, unless we just do a nerf to FnB ... which, actually, I think is a good idea.

    I think it's fine if one spec is particularly better at given niches (single-target, two/three cleave, aoe) but I think they all should be viable for most levels of raiding. Maybe I'm asking for too much for what is probably a small slice of the greater population ... not quite the level that would regem/reforge on a per-fight basis, but still where performance matters enough you keep the two specs best-suited for the most situations you'd find in a given tier ... idk ... tangent I guess, haha
    I am the one who knocks ... because I need your permission to enter.

  19. #3259
    I haven't been following the whole thread since it started and apologies if this was touched on in a previous post but how bad is the T16 4pc bonus for Affliticon and Demo ?

  20. #3260
    Banned Cebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devious009 View Post
    I haven't been following the whole thread since it started and apologies if this was touched on in a previous post but how bad is the T16 4pc bonus for Affliticon and Demo ?
    its dog shit. Let your fellow raiders enjoy their 4pc, get 2pc and be happy.

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