1. #3281
    Just screwing around on dummies I'm actually seeing no glyph demo doing a bit better than with the glyph. Especially with an aff haste/mastery setup. That said I'd use the glyph on fights with intense burn phases. I also think professions will make a difference...ie eng+herb might favor glyph use while a pair of passive 320 int professions will favor going glyphless. Amp almost always procs in the first few spells but I think the days of 600K+ demo openers are gone. Aff however opens really hard. I was testing w' 5xT16 though I wouldn't pursue the set bonus beyond the 2pc/soulfire buff. Aff I'd forget sets completely and just find the highest ilvl haste/mastery piece I could get.

    Demo still gets less from KTT and cleave trinkets due to imps not functioning with those trinkets (nor the amp's crit bonus). Timeless is a fine trinket to pair with amp but we really have no heroic equivalent. Then again aff can't get its hands on a heroic BBoY till progression is done.

    Just can't see destro being a solid spec choice in that the legendary meta still caps the gcd incredibly easy, aoe feels unsustainable on 4-6 targets, and the single target is so bad as to drop you like a rock the moment you aren't aoe'ing 10+ targets or havoc/shadowburn sniping. If we are balancing it on the assumption of only being viable when it can cheese mechanics then the mechanics need to change but I digress....

  2. #3282
    for PVP "new" soul link+lesser healing is a very good talent... HOT baseline is great...

    but "new" soul link is cancelled if the demon is banished?

  3. #3283
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    Just can't see destro being a solid spec choice in that the legendary meta still caps the gcd incredibly easy, aoe feels unsustainable on 4-6 targets, and the single target is so bad as to drop you like a rock the moment you aren't aoe'ing 10+ targets or havoc/shadowburn sniping. If we are balancing it on the assumption of only being viable when it can cheese mechanics then the mechanics need to change but I digress....
    its kinda sad that destro is in such a bad spot single target wise, i like the spec better than demo but with destro being so bad, there is really no point in speccing destro at all. they really need to give it some much needed love or it will only be used on niche fights. there are so many ways of buffing destro's single target dps without it buffing its aoe.

  4. #3284
    Anyone play on the ptr this weekend and have some warlock thoughts? target dummy 'tests' mean absolutely nothing. Glyph of havoc gives us 2 chaos bolts I can confirm (i was dreaming 3, too good to be true).. will try out destruction vs affliction on flex tonight a few times.

  5. #3285
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrenka View Post
    LOL! 10chars
    I know, right? How dare I suggest we get some actual numbers before deciding whether it will be viable or not?

    But thank you so much for your insightful, in depth, and constructive feedback!

  6. #3286
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    I know, right? How dare I suggest we get some actual numbers before deciding whether it will be viable or not?

    But thank you so much for your insightful, in depth, and constructive feedback!
    "Actual numbers" from a sim that's been pretty poor for all three specs this entire expansion?

  7. #3287
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanatas View Post
    for PVP "new" soul link+lesser healing is a very good talent... HOT baseline is great...

    but "new" soul link is cancelled if the demon is banished?
    Not sure about the healing, but the damage reduction will be removed while your demon is banished or cycloned.

  8. #3288
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Not sure about the healing, but the damage reduction will be removed while your demon is banished or cycloned.
    it doesnt technically say, but i assume that you're correct.

  9. #3289
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Not sure about the healing, but the damage reduction will be removed while your demon is banished or cycloned.
    tnx for the info

  10. #3290
    For destro, is Sac going to be viable or are we just going to have to use Sup?

  11. #3291
    Quote Originally Posted by bugzilla3 View Post
    For destro, is Sac going to be viable or are we just going to have to use Sup?
    doesnt really matter atm as you'd be better off playing pretty much any other spec but afaik GoSac has only changed for afflic, so it should be about as viable as it is on live.

  12. #3292
    The Patient Kagecamia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    Just screwing around on dummies I'm actually seeing no glyph demo doing a bit better than with the glyph. Especially with an aff haste/mastery setup. That said I'd use the glyph on fights with intense burn phases. I also think professions will make a difference...ie eng+herb might favor glyph use while a pair of passive 320 int professions will favor going glyphless. Amp almost always procs in the first few spells but I think the days of 600K+ demo openers are gone. Aff however opens really hard. I was testing w' 5xT16 though I wouldn't pursue the set bonus beyond the 2pc/soulfire buff. Aff I'd forget sets completely and just find the highest ilvl haste/mastery piece I could get.

    Demo still gets less from KTT and cleave trinkets due to imps not functioning with those trinkets (nor the amp's crit bonus). Timeless is a fine trinket to pair with amp but we really have no heroic equivalent. Then again aff can't get its hands on a heroic BBoY till progression is done.

    Just can't see destro being a solid spec choice in that the legendary meta still caps the gcd incredibly easy, aoe feels unsustainable on 4-6 targets, and the single target is so bad as to drop you like a rock the moment you aren't aoe'ing 10+ targets or havoc/shadowburn sniping. If we are balancing it on the assumption of only being viable when it can cheese mechanics then the mechanics need to change but I digress....
    With the loss of UVLS, how is demo doing on the fights? What about affliction? Are they top ranking specs or are we going to be middle of the pack this tier?

  13. #3293
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagecamia View Post
    With the loss of UVLS, how is demo doing on the fights? What about affliction? Are they top ranking specs or are we going to be middle of the pack this tier?
    Both are looking at the top, but there isn't really any solid data. Many other classes also got important changes, so it's very hard to tell without actually doing the fights.

  14. #3294
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    "Actual numbers" from a sim that's been pretty poor for all three specs this entire expansion?
    Anything is better than "I think it's not going to be as good as picking up well itemized off set pieces, but have no real numbers or testing to back it up."

    Maybe the 4set won't be THAT great for single target, but I can see it being quite strong in AoE or cleave situations. However, I can't say for sure one way or the other because we don't have a large enough log sample, nor the simulations to back up either claim.

  15. #3295
    Can somebody confirm if the 4set proccs of clipped haunts?

  16. #3296
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    Anything is better than "I think it's not going to be as good as picking up well itemized off set pieces, but have no real numbers or testing to back it up."

    Maybe the 4set won't be THAT great for single target, but I can see it being quite strong in AoE or cleave situations. However, I can't say for sure one way or the other because we don't have a large enough log sample, nor the simulations to back up either claim.
    I'm not sure it matters that much. The only thing that can alter how many shards you are getting is killing mobs with Drain Soul. More shards means more procs from 4set, but it also means you will have an overflow anyway. Haunts that you don't channel MG/DS over are worth a lot less as well.

    I agree we need a simulation for it, but I personally don't see any way our 4set can be stronger than extra haste/mastery.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Apero View Post
    Can somebody confirm if the 4set proccs of clipped haunts?
    It does. Not sure how it works exactly mechanically, but it seems to just have a chance to proc every 8s after you applied a Haunt. In any case you can definitely get procs off Haunts that got clipped. Source: tested myself.

  17. #3297
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    Because people spent too much time QQing about Immolate being a core part of Destruction and that "dispels counter us so hard". So, Blizzard made Immolate almost useless in PvP to satisfy all the wannabes that thought it would be the fix to Destro PvP. Funny thing is that dispelling Immolate was far from being the biggest problem, especially in 3s.
    Not saying it needs to, but no reason we can't have Immo back as a modifier to a dmg spell. Just need to make it instant cast like every other comparable DoT.

  18. #3298
    The Patient sasofrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    Not saying it needs to, but no reason we can't have Immo back as a modifier to a dmg spell. Just need to make it instant cast like every other comparable DoT.
    No. With immolate increasing the damage of our other spells it makes it too vital to keep on targets in pvp which means it'll just be dispelled so it's basically like an instant nerf to destruction. Even if immolate was an instant cast, this design was moved away from specifically so a dot doesn't determine if our damage is good or not.
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  19. #3299
    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    I'm not sure it matters that much. The only thing that can alter how many shards you are getting is killing mobs with Drain Soul. More shards means more procs from 4set, but it also means you will have an overflow anyway. Haunts that you don't channel MG/DS over are worth a lot less as well.

    I agree we need a simulation for it, but I personally don't see any way our 4set can be stronger than extra haste/mastery.
    I was talking about for Demo.

  20. #3300
    It used to be spam dispelled, but as instant and 8sec dispel CD it's fine. Just look at LB/FS. Eles have no issue keeping multiple FlameShocks up these days. And I'd much rather have burst delivery like Ele if they balance CB off of Immo instead of off an insane cast time.

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