1. #3501
    Destro was behind in 5.3 on single target, to compensate they nerfed single target. that is stupid.

    and yeah, it's a big problem in WoW that different DPS specs are left lagging behind (Subtlety, Arms, Marksman, Destro), why the hell can't they tweak numbers to keep them close like they do to Mages?? 20% buff to Incinerate and Conflag, 20% reduction to FnB - there you go Ghostcrawler, you're welcome.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  2. #3502
    IMO 5.4 Affliction is looking like great fun. New Soul Swap is pretty good design, and combined with AD gives the spec an insane amount of depth. I don't recall ever having to think so much about how to play optimally for any caster spec.

    I don't see the problem with the current iteration at all... Affliction and Demo are very close, or seem to be from all sources I have seen including doing all PTR tests myself. Affliction is a bit better on sustained 2-3 target DPS, while Demo can burst more and has better AoE in almost all circumstances. Destruction is still strong on 3-4 fights. For the lowest overall spec that's not bad at all if you look at previous patches. So many pure classes have had 100% useless specs almost every patch.

    There will always be a strongest and a weakest spec, no matter how hard you try to balance things, unless the specs are made so similar that they have almost no differences. If you are serious about providing the most you can for your raid, you will always be forced to the best spec for a fight. If you don't care that much about optimizing, why do you care so much about balance?

  3. #3503
    Looks like a 15% chaos bolt damage increase was hotfixed into PTR yesterday (Lore blue post on PTR forum). Should be interesting and pack a whallop!

  4. #3504
    Dreadlord Cebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Arkansas, United States
    Posts
    983
    so can we stop crying about destro 24/7, ya it still sucks, but atleast its 15% more cbolt dmg less sucky than it was before...

    We agree that Destruction is a bit low in 5.4. We also recognize that, particularly after the Kil'Jaeden's Cunning changes, Chaos Bolt has become a "riskier" spell to cast. To both ends, we think a Chaos Bolt buff is in order. We're going to bring it up by 15% and see where that puts things.

    Our general philosophy for Destruction in 5.4 is that casting Chaos Bolt can be tricky sometimes -- working around interrupts and LOS in PvP, or sneaking them in between periods of movement in PvE -- but when the cast goes off, it hurts. A lot. We do have to be careful not to push things TOO far, but we'll see how things go from here.

    This change was applied via hotfix sometime yesterday, so it should already be live on the PTR if you'd like to get some testing in.

  5. #3505
    Quote Originally Posted by Cebel View Post
    so can we stop crying about destro 24/7, ya it still sucks, but atleast its 15% more cbolt dmg less sucky than it was before...
    Feel free to talk about other things, but seeing as Destro is still under-performing you can be assured that there are still going to be people talking about it.

    15% doesn't seem to be enough to me, and it still doesn't address our AoE problems. Better something than nothing I suppose, but I wouldn't say our work is done quite yet.

  6. #3506
    I still think changing Backdraft from 30% haste to 30% crit would solve most of the spec's problems.

    I have no hope for them fixing MF + FnB at this point, knowing Blizzard for as long as I do.
    WoW Warlock | D3 Monk | Twitter: @NeryssaBH

    <Did it for Whitney> 14/14H recruiting exceptional players for WoD!

  7. #3507
    I dont understand why they are using chaos bolt to tune. Its the first thing they nerf when people complain about PvP issues and warlocks so why buff it now when your just inviting the same cycle to continue of buff/nerf. I suspect they are too close to the release of the patch and we are getting a bandaid again. Hopefully enough testing on the PTR will yield a bit more.

  8. #3508
    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan30 View Post
    I dont understand why they are using chaos bolt to tune. Its the first thing they nerf when people complain about PvP issues and warlocks so why buff it now when your just inviting the same cycle to continue of buff/nerf. I suspect they are too close to the release of the patch and we are getting a bandaid again. Hopefully enough testing on the PTR will yield a bit more.
    Well it's definitely just a bandaid fix but atm I think its too late to expect them to do things like change backdraft to give crit instead or haste, or increase the proc rate of the meta or the 50 other good ideas that have been tossed out. However, as far as pvp is concerned Lore did mention that with the removal of CB from KJC it is now ok for CB to hit hard as its a 3 sec cast. Hopefully if it becomes a pvp problem they just nerf its pvp damage as appropriate and don't revert the change.

    While the spec is still underperforming at least its a nice boost for its niche fights where we will end up with lots of CBs due to the extra embers when we SB dying adds. If they could just make it so its not horrendously bad in single target, strong on fights with SB/havoc and give us enough embers to take out the clunkiness when we AoE I'd be happy. I don't expect any major mechanic fixes/changes til 6.0.

  9. #3509
    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    Destro was behind in 5.3 on single target, to compensate they nerfed single target. that is stupid.

    and yeah, it's a big problem in WoW that different DPS specs are left lagging behind (Subtlety, Arms, Marksman, Destro), why the hell can't they tweak numbers to keep them close like they do to Mages?? 20% buff to Incinerate and Conflag, 20% reduction to FnB - there you go Ghostcrawler, you're welcome.
    Agreed, conf and inci 's base damage is too low and low crit.

  10. #3510
    Epic!
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    France, Illidan-EU
    Posts
    1,743
    Feel free to talk about other things, but seeing as Destro is still under-performing you can be assured that there are still going to be people talking about it.

    15% doesn't seem to be enough to me, and it still doesn't address our AoE problems. Better something than nothing I suppose, but I wouldn't say our work is done quite yet.
    Well I won't spit on that buff (yaay :P), but I'm not sure that it was the best way to buff Destro either. Nice to know they are doing something anyway.
    NEW Android App : World of Quizzcraft
    Test your knowledge of WoW with more than 1100 questions and 80 achievements!

    Web Apps : Deaths Analyzer, WoL Timeline, Megaera Dps Calculator
    WoW-Heroes

  11. #3511
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Feel free to talk about other things, but seeing as Destro is still under-performing you can be assured that there are still going to be people talking about it.

    15% doesn't seem to be enough to me, and it still doesn't address our AoE problems. Better something than nothing I suppose, but I wouldn't say our work is done quite yet.
    It's actually difficult to talk about something else in a thread where the same people keep hashing and rehashing the problems with Destruction.

    There are some interesting suggestions for Destro; are you posting them on official forums where a dev might actually see them?

    That being said, I suggest that Aff and Demo locks abandon this thread and just post in the 5.3 stickied threads. Confusing, since you're talking about 5.4...but more likely to provide satisfaction.

  12. #3512
    Dreadlord Cebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Arkansas, United States
    Posts
    983
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Feel free to talk about other things, but seeing as Destro is still under-performing you can be assured that there are still going to be people talking about it.

    15% doesn't seem to be enough to me, and it still doesn't address our AoE problems. Better something than nothing I suppose, but I wouldn't say our work is done quite yet.
    talking about it is fine..... whining the same point over and over and over for 20 pages is a little much. :P

  13. #3513
    1) CB Buff is no where near enough. Based on my most recent HIQon parse, CB was 29% of my total dmg (sup spec, mastery build). Let's round that up to 30%. A 15% buff nets me a 4.5% overall dmg buff. Now let's remember that thanks to the RoF nerf, I'm also casting less CBs. Let's be generous and say that I'm casting 20% less CB's than Live. That lowers the net dps gain to 3.6%. Some very very back of the envelope guesstimating, but that CB buff is nothing short of 'meh' and still leaves well behind the pack.

    2) The Devs need to address Backdraft/Metagem/Destro 1 sec GCD situation (and Lust/Zerking if you wanna extend things). The combination of those absolutely kills haste scaling for us. We already have a portion of our damage unaffected by a scaling stat (pets and mastery), we shouldn't be saddled with abysmal haste scaling on top of it.

    3) Related -I know they want to minimize our 'on the pull' stuff, but I'm also worried about our opener dps now that we don't have multiple haste-boosted RoF's feeding us with embers. I'm a troll lock still saddled with the Shadowpan trinket, so this is more of an issue for me, but on Live I can pump out a good amount of chaosbolts on openers thanks to RoF embers. More of a frustration thing I guess unless there are a lot of 'hard open' fights in SoO. But is sucks being the 'burst' spec and having by far the worst burst dps of all 3.

  14. #3514
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    Well I won't spit on that buff (yaay :P), but I'm not sure that it was the best way to buff Destro either. Nice to know they are doing something anyway.
    Agreed, wasn't the right way to buff destruction at all. But I guess you can't scream at buffs... Looking forward to the next expansion when they address things like haste scaling, really would've liked to have seen the meta gem tuned as well.

  15. #3515
    We can still hope they adjust numbers a little more, maybe haste scaling or an Incinerate buff of some sort.

    We have a week. Not optimistic but I was honestly not expecting anything at this point so who knows.

  16. #3516
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,534
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    1) CB Buff is no where near enough. Based on my most recent HIQon parse, CB was 29% of my total dmg (sup spec, mastery build). Let's round that up to 30%. A 15% buff nets me a 4.5% overall dmg buff. Now let's remember that thanks to the RoF nerf, I'm also casting less CBs. Let's be generous and say that I'm casting 20% less CB's than Live. That lowers the net dps gain to 3.6%. Some very very back of the envelope guesstimating, but that CB buff is nothing short of 'meh' and still leaves well behind the pack.

    2) The Devs need to address Backdraft/Metagem/Destro 1 sec GCD situation (and Lust/Zerking if you wanna extend things). The combination of those absolutely kills haste scaling for us. We already have a portion of our damage unaffected by a scaling stat (pets and mastery), we shouldn't be saddled with abysmal haste scaling on top of it.

    3) Related -I know they want to minimize our 'on the pull' stuff, but I'm also worried about our opener dps now that we don't have multiple haste-boosted RoF's feeding us with embers. I'm a troll lock still saddled with the Shadowpan trinket, so this is more of an issue for me, but on Live I can pump out a good amount of chaosbolts on openers thanks to RoF embers. More of a frustration thing I guess unless there are a lot of 'hard open' fights in SoO. But is sucks being the 'burst' spec and having by far the worst burst dps of all 3.

    yea having 0.6sec cast time on incinerates serves no purpose if you are waitin on GCD's....>.> my toon feels like he is coughing when casting



    EDIT: I really wanted to roll destro in 5.4 with all that lovely Mastery gear (most of em Mastery Crit too) but i feel like i have to roll 2pc 2pc demo with another Haste Mastery build...sigh
    Last edited by MrHappy; 2013-08-29 at 09:41 PM.
    www.cherishyourit.ca MCTS - Win 7, MCTS - AD, A+, Security+

  17. #3517
    UVLS is procing consistently at the start @ Iron Juggernaut HC testing.

    But it could be a product of the scalling since the trinket its 555. But Iam suspicious since they said no mater the ilevel UVLS like trinkets wouldnt proc at start so I dont know
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

  18. #3518
    Y'all should be happy that we bitch about Destro so much. Hopefully it distracts them from how OP Affliction is going to be.

  19. #3519
    All those who can raid hm on ptr please raid as destro & send the parses to lore/ghostcrawler, this is our chance to have the destro dps analyzed by Blizzard.
    See http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...r-logs-needed/

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan30 View Post
    I dont understand why they are using chaos bolt to tune. Its the first thing they nerf when people complain about PvP issues and warlocks so why buff it now when your just inviting the same cycle to continue of buff/nerf. I suspect they are too close to the release of the patch and we are getting a bandaid again. Hopefully enough testing on the PTR will yield a bit more.
    Indeed but do note that this is a reversal for many classes e.g. Kill Command buffed, ice lance buffed and so forth.
    Maybe Blizzard assumes the increased base resilience (65%->72% if memory serves) is enough to give some leeway for hard hitting abilities.

  20. #3520
    Blademaster Vinavi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Rainy Georgia
    Posts
    33
    I posted this in the thread, but I think it needs to be said here too.
    A lot of really good points made in this thread about improving Destro QoL and performance, but a little too much sifting through "Blizz ignores feedback." I've read enough blue posts over the years to understand that they deliberately withhold information from the players regarding how a spec is supposed to work (because just telling them ruins the fun of figuring it out yourself, and makes people worse at the game because they don't do their own theorycrafting).

    I'm not really a mod or anything, but I would ask that feedback remain constructive.

    Looking at the set bonuses and trinkets this go around, I think we might see more results maximizing our ember regen during DS and the set bonus crit buffs, so that when those uber trinkets DO proc, we can unload and make the most of them. It feels like the heavy crit-stacking, combined with the fact that we get more embers from crits, means haste/crit is intended to be our "spirit," if you will, while Mastery/int becomes our throughput stat. Assuming this is the case, it encourages smarter playing of Destro during filler casting (as opposed to RAWR incinerate), and possibly flipping the backdraft philosophy to only use for CB in order to mitigate the short window of casting time.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •